My brother has been looking for work. He finally, after lots of hard work and effort on his part, got one he thinks is good!

I'm so happy for him!

My SIL said this: God is good! Testament of faith, trust, prayer, sacrifice, you name it, you did it! I'm so happy for you! I'm up for a celebration!

I said this: YAY YAY YAY!!! Yes, a real celebration is in order!
And [SIL] is right that it is a testament of faith and prayers, HOWEVER, I firmly believe that YOU, [brother], YOU, did this on your merits, skills, etc. You steer your own boat.

So, my SIL's daughter, whom I have met exactly twice, says this:
Alma 26:12 "Yea, I know that I am nothing; as to my strength I am weak; therefore I will not boast of myself, but I will boast of my God, for in his strength I can do all things; yea, behold, many mighty miracles we have wrought in this land, for which we will praise his name forever." God is good.

And then my SIL says this: We give ALL our glory to God. Without God, we are nothing.

To which I say: I'm sorry both of you missed my point and my encouragement and positive words to my brother.


RANT: grrrrrr!!! I am so pissed off right now. Don't quote "scripture" at me, as if I said something wrong to my brother, who has self image problems already due in part to the stupid, f-ing mormon cult.
The day I discovered that my own actions, my hard work, my efforts, are what caused me to have success in different areas of my life, not some "being" handing out arbitrary, random "blessings" that I had to beg and grovel forand didn't deserve was one of the most freeing, wonderful moments of my life. If I want to pass some of that feeling on to my very TBM brother, in hopes that maybe, just maybe, something might sink in, I will. And quoting that ridiculous work of fiction at me is not going to change my mind.

Your post reminded me of a scene in the movie "Shenandoah", with Jimmy Stewart. He and his family frontier family have just sit down to a Thanksgiving-like meal, circa before electricity. The table is laden with lots of good things. He's about to dig in, but his religious wife says a prayer should be said, to thank ghawd for his bounty. Jimmy mulls that over and then says okay...

"Lord in heaven, I cleared the land, I plowed the field, I planted the seed, I watered and weeded and then I brought in the harvest, so that we could sit down to this table. I did all the work... Thank you ghawd, amen."

They're not toilet trained. Can't help putting it out where ever.

I mean look at it from a distance: they're so fearful, they cannot keep their hands in their pockets. They are forced to grab any and every thing, twisting it to try force-fit it into how they think the universe operates. These cannot let anything just be. It's a lot of work, so they're anxious and miserable, but they have no choice.

Want to see misery?
Look at the fifteen. Just look at their faces.
Do they look joyful? At peace?

about a conversation I had been having with the previous bishop's wife, who I like most of the time. They are good friends with my daughter. Anyway, when you have left the church, for some reason they think that their word is final, that they have the truth, all the answers.

My boyfriend said they are being "dismissive." (He works with lots of mormons and can't stand them.) Yep, dismissive.

THEN on mormon VIP lounge on fb, someone said, "Smug." I thought that was a good word, too.

(I actually sent this lady a long message on fb about how I see things NOW in terms of what we were discussing.) I felt a need and I did it. If she answers, I'm sure it will be smug.

BUT how many atheists have jobs? How many have lost their jobs and then found a job? Why is it the current R.S. president in this ward who used to work for the same company as I do got laid off and I didn't--and my boss is a Mormon?

Reminds me of the Nat' Geo' TV special where a opthamologist operates on a thousand North Koreans, restoring their sight, but do they thank him and praise his skill?

Nope. The first they see is the ever present portarit of their Dear Leader Kim Jong i, and thank him tearfully.

Oh, that made me so sick. Great documentary!

I saw that, and realized immediately: "That is a national cult". Then I found out that when Kim Jong Il died, there was bafflement from the populace. They legitimately believed he was a deity, and thus, immune to death.

North Korea is a nuclear armed cult.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves. If someone does something good IT WAS GOD, ALL GLORY TO GOD

But when someone screws up its all on the person and never on god.

My TBM father feels the same way... about himself! My two brothers are TBM and make him proud. My sister and I are apostate and he is ashamed of us. He actually said, "I am so proud of my sons. If only I could bottle and sell whatever it is I have that produced such great sons, I would be rich!" Disgusted, I asked him if he really thought my brothers' "success" is due to having him as their father, and he said yes. I then asked if he admitted any infuence over the "disappointments" of his daughters, and he said NO!

I also remember him telling me that all of my good thoughts came god, and all of the negative (as he determined) were from the devil. Apparently none of my thoughts were my own, but I was still accountable. What a mindfuck!

Without prayer to or faith in a god, it seems that atheists and agnostics are doing just fine economically in the United States, anyway. About 37% of US atheists and agnostics have an annual family income of at least $75,000, compared with about 28% of US Christians:

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise-demographics/


I'd be curious to get your SIL's reaction to that fact.

Tell them to back off that you were just planning a barbecue. And if they are planning on slitting a goat's throat on an alter you have other plans based on reality.


Glory be to your brother.

On New Year's day a co-worker called in sick and a very nice returned missionary filled in for her. He had no experience, having worked in another area. He called to ask many questions which I was happy to answer Several days later he stopped by my desk to tell me what a blessing I had been. I bit my tongue, but wanted to say ,"I am an atheist. There was no blessing involved. It was my own decision to be helpful". It was your brothers tenacity, preparation, good fortune that landed him the job. Your family is taking that away from him. Are they a tad bit jealous maybe?

Unless this job is at a church, he's creating a hostile environment and needs to be reprimanded or at least properly trained in workplace etiquette.

If I had more motivation I'd memorize a few scriptures from the Koran or the Boghavad Gita (sp?), That way when someone quotes scripture from a book I don't believe in, I can respond with a quote from a book they don't believe in. Level the playing field a little bit.

Try this (I use it any time my relatives talk about this topic):

"Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet."

- Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 408-409

I ran away from him.
So did tens of thousands of others.
That makes him wrong.

We win. :)

So I got a type of apology from my SIL. She said: I am sorry. I do understand your point. We both do. I just wanted to acknowledge our Heavenly Father's hand in every aspect of our lives.

Apology accepted. From my SIL. None coming from my SIL's daughter, though, who was the one who felt the need to lecture me.

I got some PMs, though, from two of my nieces (my brother's daughters), that I thought were very nice!
Niece #1: I just wanted to stop in and say I love you! Also that I'm sorry that congratulating my dad came with a slightly self righteous church lesson.
Niece # 2: Whee passive aggressive religion thrown in your face! I love you. Just wanted you to know.

NICE!

As an aside, I have lovely, wonderful nieces and nephews, for the most part. And out of all of us kids (five of my mom's and five of my stepdad's), almost ALL of our children are out. Out of the great multitude of nieces and nephews that I have, I can count four that are still in. Intelligence runs in the family ;-)

Glad to hear you received an apology and those wonderful PMs from your nieces.