they had to go to survive in their community whether they like it or not. Some because if they don't they will not go to college, ostracized etc They deserve compassion for their wasted 2 years. If not for their innocence they would not be able to field 80000 missionaries. Whoever decided to send out kiddos figured the Adults may be smarter not to go. You catch them while they are dependent and vulnerable. Best to just refer them to cesletter

But it's so fun. It's hardly like we're pointing and laughing at amputees, or something. At some point, these 18/19 year-olds made a decision, "Yes, I will do this thing."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2014 09:20AM by cludgie.

If on one side you have a multi-billion dollar empire which lies to everyone from the day they are born, and on the other side, you have a child who just wants to do what is right, get along with family, etc, then exactly WHO or WHAT made the choice?

They were lied to. They are still being lied to. "Choice" in a world of engineered disinformation can really only be attributed to the engineers of that world: the 15.

But it's so fun. And they are such low-hanging fruit.

Agree that they should be treated with empathy. Being a missionary sucks in so many ways. On the other hand, me running around all over every neighborhood in Milan knocking on every single door pushing baloney doctrine at everybody I possibly could was a shitty thing for me to do, so the pushback I got from the locals was well deserved.

It doesn't bother me because they are the ones going door to door trying to sell people on their product. It is a defective product and needs to be pointed out. Do they just expect people to shut up and never point out that they are flat out wrong?

I get sick of hearing "I am offended" or "you are disrespecting my beliefs."

They are the ones knocking on my door without an invitation. I don't go hunt them down trying to dissuade them from TSCC.

If you want to claim that this was an independent adult decision, then you can stand to take the criticism like an adult.

If these are children that are victims of their culture, and incapable or unwilling to be accountable for their actions then fair enough.

The problem with Mormonism is that they think they are special and get to have it both ways...yeah, not so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2014 09:17AM by tig.

It is difficult, it's a bit of a dilemma. I have a grandson nearly that age and I want to shield him from life's knocks.

I've always tried to list the things I admire about them as missionaries first before engaging them in deeper conversation.

Is it fair to make a comparison with a young volunteer soldier sent to war. Can we say "Don't fire any bullets at him". I guess not. As I say it's a dilemma because missionaries on one hand are adults who have volunteered but on the other hand they are young adults who have been manipulated.

Seriously?
They're adults, not kids.
Anybody who's 18 is an adult.
They've had access to the internet for a good 8 years.
They should have prepared better or they might end up looking like liars when they go out on a mission and have to lie to avoid looking like what they are, deceitful recruiters for a deceitful, exploitative Doomsday Sex Cult, masquerading as a religion.

Why, because the lawyers who write your local laws said so? I don't think biology works that way.

Look. It's not like we're tracking them down and laughing in their faces, chasing them down the street ridiculing them.

I was a missionary. I wrote the ridiculous stuff they write. I was arrogant and ignorant like they are. The smugness deserves to be laughed at. I laugh at what I was as a missionary now and I laugh at them. It tickles me to read their smug posts.

They are laughing at you, you know, for being misled by the devil himself. They are being arrogant about all the "gentiles" they come across who are "too closed off to receive their one true gospel" restored by the greedy letch Joseph. They are adults. Why would you give them or anyone a pass for such offensive behavior?

And if you think they are all innocent little dupes, it makes me wonder if you've ever been on a mission?

The idea of giving them a pass is buying into the way the Mormon church operates. They are free to get in your face with their message and you are supposed to respect that as their religious right. They are free to do what ever they want and you are free to shut up?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2014 10:02AM by blueorchid.

+bazillion

+1 x infinity

It won't hurt them to get a dose of reality and hear the truth. The church has been deceiving them all their lives. Do you want to be guilty of doing the same thing?

Wish more had challenged me, I may have ended it sooner.

I think of them as kids...just trying to do what they've been told is right. I teach music lessons to many who ended up going on missions, so I have a soft spot in my heart for them.

I really tire of their parents' facebook posts though. And feel bad that they are wasting two years on this crap.

I don't like making fun of them. I'm just a little embarrassed at their naïveté. I was them once.

A contrary opinion...

I was a missionary in the days before (way before) the internet.
One of the things that got me "thinking" was encountering "offensive" people who challenged me. The ones who would say, "Your prophet took his rituals from the masons," or, "Your church lied about polygamy." THOSE challenges made me think, even if my thoughts were, "I need to find evidence to counter their evil claims!"

The non-"offensive" people, who'd smile and say, "No, thank you" and then close the door, didn't get me thinking in any way. They didn't challenge me or make me wonder or make me angry. I felt nothing from them.

If it hadn't been for the "offensive" ones getting me to start to think, I might never have made it out.

So, frankly, from my point of view, "playing nice" does nothing. Challenging (even with ridicule) does.

Belittle them? What are you referring to OP? Are you referring Koriwhore's undercover vid's on temple square? Do you think those vid's are "belittling"? If I would have had access to the internet, or if someone would have explained to me what Koriwhore did to those sister mish's, I wouldn't have wasted my life in that cult. He did them a favor.

From his post on exmormon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXW-CHtD07g&list=UUJX9pqr08F65gDW7JLYkajw

Thanks for the link.

Holy hell that sounds like mormonism: ask a real question, we call armed goons.

Fuckin cult.

Not all of them go on missions because they're strong armed into it. My stepson begged to go on a mission. His father let him go, even though he thought it was a waste of time.

It's too bad he ended up spending the majority of his mission as an assistant to the president. He didn't learn much of anything except a foreign language, and how to kiss the butts of mormon leaders.

With kids going on missions, I like to plant this seed:

I want them to know that I think they have been brainwashed by grown-ups in the cult to do vile work that grown-ups CHOOSE NOT TO DO THEMSELVES.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2014 01:17PM by presleynfactsrock.

I remember knocking on a door at 19. It was a British man in Norwich. He looked deep into my eyes, and he said the following, "Son, you have been brainwashed. You don't know it because you've been indoctrinated since birth, but I'm telling you - you have been brainwashed. You don't know what you are doing. You don't know what and who you represent."

I remember that conversation my entire mission and even today. I couldn't get it out of my mind. Those types of conversations really do help people.

Wow! I wish someone would have told me that when I knocked on their door.

On my mission I knocked on a door and a man said to me after I bore my testimony, "I know you believe you have felt the spirit, but how do you know it's not just something you worked yourself up into?"

In my gut I knew he was right. I shelved it of course, but deep down, really really deep, I knew right then he was right. That was the beginning. I wish I could thank him.

Good for him, Hugh. That man actually cared about his fellowman, you, enough to be honest with you and call you out.

The attitude that hurting 18 yr. old missionary's ingrained, religious sensibilities is in any way harmful to them is confusing to me. Comforting them in their delusions and poor behavior is what actually hurts. Similar to letting your kids get away with hurting other kids because you don't want to correct them because it would hurt their feelings. Then they grow up and must experience the real pain of having no friends because they are jerks. Continuing to hide the truth because they're just kids is silly.

Whether we like it or not, 18 yrs. old is an adult. That is reality. Also, they DID decide to go on a mission even if it was for the purposes of pleasing parents, god, friends, mormondom. They may have caved to pressure from others, but that does not absolve them of accountability or the shield them from the consequences. At some point you have to grow up. There are 60 yr. olds who allow the church to dictate all of their decisions. Are they just kids who deserve our pity? No, they are responsible for those decisions no matter how they made them.

It is certainly better to learn early in life that you will be accountable and have to suffer the consequences of your own decisions. Hey, I feel victimized by the mormon church. Does that mean I get all those years back, get all that &&& back, and get to take back all the stupid things I said and did? Do the vaunted "brethren" have to bear my pain? Nope, I decided to do that, even under duress, and must bear the consequences. I feel for young missionaries because they are under similar duress. I feel enough compassion for them to call them out.

I disagree with the OP. When I was twelve my father made me spend a weekend with the two local missionaries. They hazed me and pressured me into stripping and bathing in tub full of scalding water. It was a homo-erotic weekend from hell, and you'll have to excuse me for my failure to be impressed with missionary virtue.