Seriously? They're adults, not kids. Anybody who's 18 is an adult. They've had access to the internet for a good 8 years. They should have prepared better or they might end up looking like liars when they go out on a mission and have to lie to avoid looking like what they are, deceitful recruiters for a deceitful, exploitative Doomsday Sex Cult, masquerading as a religion.
I have an 18 year old, he is still a kid, maybe legally he is an adult but he is still you. I remember being 18, I was still a kid even though I lived on my own and had already been through a lot in my life, even with all that crap I was still young. Remember most of these young men and women going off on missions have been sheltered from the real world, they are young and naive.
I see it the same way I see the young men and women that go directly into the military after high school, they are also young and naive and quickly see the world how it truly is.
If you didn't, you didn't do your job. Not my issue. What other species takes over 18 years to reach adulthood? And we call ourselves Homo Sapiens Sapiens?
Wow! What a sad view of humanity you have. I did my job, my son has done well but he is still young. I'm sorry you are so bitter. I take it you have no kids of your own.
I've got 4, 3 of whom are adults, aka, over 18 and I didn't coddle them by calling them 'kids' when they were adults. I traveled all over Europe and Africa when I was 18, by my self, solo. Hitchhiking most of the way. Survived a whole lot worse than being confronted about the crappy product I was trying to foist on people.
koriwhore Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I've got 4, 3 of whom are adults, aka, over 18 and > I didn't coddle them by calling them 'kids' when > they were adults. > I traveled all over Europe and Africa when I was > 18, by my self, solo. Hitchhiking most of the way. > > Survived a whole lot worse than being confronted > about the crappy product I was trying to foist on > people.
And so everyone else MUST be JUST like you then? Really?
I was living on my own at 17, still in high school but working full-time and paying rent, bills, etc. I was clearly an "adult." I don't assume everyone else is or was just like me,though. You should try that.
Yet with all of your amazing adult-ness at 18, you seem to have failed at learning that not everyone matures the same, and that environment does play into development.
The missionaries are kids - because they're raised to still be kids at 18 and 19. They're part of a religion that discourages independent thinking and decisions.
Yes, they're still kids because that's how they're raised. I feel sorry for them because they're at such an incredible disadvantage due to their upbringing.
But yes, they are kids.
That said, I think that they get a nasty wake-up call to adulthood while on those missions. Some listen to the call and grow up. Others don't.
Kind of like college students, or those who go traveling around Europe, eh?
Problem is "adult" mormons never grow up "because they're raised to still be kids at 18 and 19" and 20, and 21, and 22-infinity and beyond. "They're part of a religion that discourages independent thinking and decisions."
I totally agree - the entire religion is one that keeps its followers child-like.
They should act like grown adults, but they don't. Yet I'll be a lot harder on someone who's 30 and (in theory) has been out in the world. On the day an American turns 18, the majority are either still in high school or only a few short months past graduation, depending on the school district's determination of each school year's "minimum age" entrance date.
At 18 they are legally adults, sure. Mentally - they're kids. Height of the teenage year self-absorbed behavior, in fact.
And I guarantee that's what the church banks on - groom the kids with this attitude their entire childhood. At 18, they KNOW they are right on everything and no one will be able to correct them otherwise.
It's groomed immaturity, and it's truly sad to see. I can't fault the kids for everything - because it's how they've been taught. I blame the church for encouraging the mental handicapping of its children from free thinking.
I look at everyone as kids. Even 70 year old people. It's a good way to look at people and it makes it easeir to forgive people. It also makes it easier to forgive yourself.
Actually quite the opposite. And I was going to go into a diatribe about what a fool you are but I unlike some am compassionate and I think you have some issues that you need to work on so I will let your anger speak for itself.
They are adults with child like training. Just like we used to be. Remember that before throwing poo at them.
Do we want to justify what they've been taught by taking the low road or is it better to plant a seed with reasonable conversation and concern for their well being as they experience the scary "world".
If you don't have time to plant a seed then just spray them with the hose! Maybe a seed will grow anyway.
Tip. When spraying with a hose there is no hope for a seed to take root if in conjunction with spraying you are yelling f-you!
The thing is, other 18 year olds are off to college, starting businesses, starting their careers learning to navigate the real world and interact with other adults.
If you are still wet behind the ears at eighteen, why should you be coddled to 19? To 20?
The best thing for an eighteen year old is to get a big dose of real life complete with a few hard knocks. That is how you grow up. That is how you toughen up. That is how you get a little mettle into your being.
I am so happy some people laughed at me, slammed doors in my face and were horrified at our trick of "free english classes." I respect those people now. They were just in your face honest and that is what every 18 year old needs.
Furthermore, if you're dumb to believe at 18, I was really an idiot to make it to 38 before waking up.
And yes, I still call my 24, 26, 28 year-olds kids, because they are kids to me, and always will be.
For some reason, I still see my daughters as the 4 year olds that would jump up on my lap. Don't know if I'll ever be able to get over that. Maybe I need recovery?
Exactly, and I wish some body, any body, would have bothered saying anything about Joseph's perverted sex life and I was just a Doomsday Sex CULT recruiter,
So I'm confused - you want us to hold 18 year olds completely responsible for their behaviors because they're "adults."
Yet when you were 18, you weren't an adult and shouldn't be held responsible for what you were teaching on missions and it was someone else's fault (because they didn't tell the truth about Joseph Smith?)
Just trying to figure out your train of thought here, and wondering why you're holding other 18 year olds to more stringent standards than yourself...
I agree that 18 year olds do not need to be coddled. They need people to be real and honest with them and hold them responsible for their actions. I do think they still need a lot more advice and guidance (esp. from parents) than someone 21+ because they are just getting started in adulthood.
They should have been allowed to mature and take on more responsibility as they grew, caring mostly for themselves between 16-18 by driving themselves and having a part time job, etc.
One thing is certain, their parents should have made it abundantly clear that they WILL be held responsible for their own actions by 18 years old. Even if mom and dad might still help them out, other people are under no such obligation. At 18, they are adults and better take that seriously.
One thing I simply CANNOT believe about these missionary blogs is how these 18-21 yr. olds speak/write. Constant "haha! Whattup! And all that stuff." Two of mine are in the 17-22 yr. old range and they would never write such juvenile tripe.
It is because the LDS church keeps it's members of all ages in a juvenile state. Children and childlike minds are easier to control. That is why I look at the missionaries with pity rather than hate, I try to have some compassion for them but hell no will I allow them in my home. I just see not point in being hateful to young people.
So if ALL Mormons are intellectually infantile should we coddle them all or educate them by asking them tough questions and expecting honest answers instead of the whole 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' approach that kept us all mentally enslaved? Education is how I emancipated my mind and saw the light, but I got it on my own. The point of asking questions of these lying cult recruiters is to cause cognitive dissonance, which will either drive them insane or drive them out sane. I hope for the latter, which is all I can do.
I know koriwhore! It's just incredible that they could study anything they want right on their phone and they're not even curious about their own religion that they are selling! Using myself as an example, when I found out about the real reason JS was in jail, I berated myself that I had never looked up why the hell he was even in jail! I'm not blaming anyone for that, it was stupid on my part.
I agree that hateful is mostly not helpful. However...
I don't think it would be hateful to say to a missionary, "Look, you are being misled. You need to study up on your church because there are many things you do not know. I tell you this because, not only are you making a fool of yourself, you're wasting precious time for people who are using and lying to you. If you want to find out more, I would be happy to talk about it or you can read up online. This will explain to you why so many people don't take you seriously. You are peddling lies, which angers people. You have been warned."
This is what I plan to say if or when some missionary approaches me. It is the truth, even though it is critical. I would tell them the truth, even though they may take it to be hard. They are grown ups making false and misleading claims and they should be held responsible. I don't fault anyone for treating them as liars. They behave like idiots. I may be a bit more gentle because I know they likely do not yet know that. I wouldn't expect a nevermo to be so kind.
I also think the truth is always kind, even if it hurts at first. I wish someone would have given me a cold, hard dose of the truth, even when I was 18. Perhaps I would have come to my senses sooner.
No, it isn't fair. TSCC has had 150+ yrs. to perfect the fraud and insulate the victims. They are masters of indoctrination, fear tactics, and creating a structure that makes escape extremely difficult for those BIC, raised and then married with children in the church. These missionaries are most assuredly victims in one sense. They are also young which at least means they are not as skilled in the ways of the world.
However, as they say, life is not fair. It is not fair for them that they are being victimized by TSCC! With all the info becoming more easily available and widely known, it is almost certain they will one day find out the unfairness of it all. So, what constitutes ex-mos like us being fair to them? Allowing them to go on their merry way, embarrassing themselves with the lies and immature behavior while they are essentially attempting to similarly entrap others?
I agree that one gets more bees with honey rather than vinegar, but some truths are not sweet. It is extremely difficult in mormon culture to refuse to serve a mission, but they are adults and should held responsible that they made the ultimate decision. That is how one learns the life lesson that you will bear the consequences of your decision even if you let other people push you into it.
If they are out there teaching people, they better be well-versed in the specifics and know what they are teaching. With the essays, it is becoming clear to them that they better know the answers. As ex-mos we understand how it is that they don't know the truth, but others do not. They are going to laugh, mock and berate them. It's probably better to be non-confrontational and maybe befriend them first, but they deserve the truth. At least giving them a bit of the truth may help them escape the unfairness sooner.
"Allowing them to go on their merry way, embarrassing themselves with the lies and immature behavior while they are essentially attempting to similarly entrap others?"
Absolutely not. In fact, I think that is cruel. They should be challenged everywhere, constantly.
Even a mountain of cognitive dissonance masquerading as insult will hurt a lot less than decades in that cult.
If I thought it was THEIR decision, I might think differently.
These are, after all, the key-holders of the universe, anointed priests and kings to God, blah blah blah
They are kids, made to seem like adults, made to believe they made rational and fully informed decisions that were actually made a hundred years before they were ever born.
I don't think it is fair to blame an 18 year old for the sins of a multi-billion dollar empire of lies.