It's destructive so is drug abuse. How many people do you know who are miserable and it can be traced to the church? In other words you might be able to see that their recovery and maintenance would be easier if the got away from Moism.

None anymore. I used t have some friends that were dedicated members of "alcoholics unanimous" but I have lost track of most of them.

I think my Christian Science upbringing was a factor in my heavy drinking. I lost my 20s from it, sobered up (37 years now) in A.A, CS is also a no-alcohol, no-tobacco religion. That is compounded by their avoidance of medical care.*

My analysis is personal and subjective: I don't regard bad religion as the cause of addictions, abuses, neuroses and psychoses. I regard it as an intensifier, or perhaps a catalyst to them. Would I have become alcoholic without Christian Science? I think the answer is "probably." Like "what if Hitler had won?" we'll never know, will we?

*To their credit, and also indicative of the lessened hold "The Mother Church" has on its people, more Christian Scientists use medical care, at least occasionally.

At the present time, 1.

RB

The ones attending meetings regularly are generally faring the best.

The ones "doing my research for me" are particularly problematic. I gave one guy a couple of free cab rides after he said his cancer was terminal. I didn't see him for almost a year, and then ran into him at a convenience store.

He said he'd just done nine months in jail, but was happily sober.

My bullchip filter went off, however, and sure enough he was in the bar the other night with a mug of beer. That was a sad event for me.

I work hard to avoid judgments on anyone's drinking other than my own and a few other obvious cases. I do think, knowing what I've learned about addictions and the "dynamics of shame" (see John Bradshaw's work) that the rigid and moralistic upbringing found in Mormonism, the Christian Scientists noted above, and other rigid faiths complicate recovery. I'm also certain there's a huge genetic component, and some good writings by Christopher Lawford on the subject address the role of trauma in addictions. Unfortunately, there isn't that much money for research.

My friends in the ex-Mormon community have watched me in social situations, and I've poured drinks for a few and occasionally bought one for them as well. I don't think that the fear of alcoholism is reason to abstain for most (Native Americans and children of alcoholics are probably wise not to drink), but the issue is strictly a personal one.

I truly know one and that one is me. I have been sober for twenty-one months and I owe my sobriety to my faith in a loving God and the assistance of AA.

Good for you!
Consider me one of your cheerleaders.

I've been there too (12 years sober) and I too applaud anyone trying to get to grips with this problem.

I agree with SLCabbie that abstinence (or at least vigilance) is probably the best course of action for children of alcoholics (my father is one too, although he's been sober with AA for 38 years now...

Most people aren't alcoholics, though, even some heavy drinkers. However, alcohol is a dangerous drug (thousands of deaths every year just in the UK, for example) so moderation is always advisable.

Tom in Paris
waving to SLCabbie ;-)

I know one, me.

The cult had a large factor to play with self-confidence and self worth which added onto the fact I wasn't diagnosed with bi-polar at the time. I couldnt grasp why they said they were helping while they were tearing my mind apart and shaping it their way and I never seen it coming and that I fell for their lies. The drink numbed my brain and made it easier to cope.

Two and a half years dry now and things are a hell of a lot better.

A few. Most drinkers are not alcoholics. But a few are, and to my way of thinking, they are noticeable. There is a definite difference.

My dad was an alcoholic and had lifelong struggles with it.He converted to the church in his early 20's and would have periods of sobriety/church activity and then going off the wagon and being inactive in the church. He had started drinking again during the year leading up to taking his life in November of 2013. I don't think the church caused his alcoholism...he was born into it. Both of his parents were alcoholics...would even hide their personal stash of liquor from each other and fight over it. Neither were religious and both were very abusive to my dad while he was growing up. I think that abuse and environment were the contributing factors to his alcoholism. However, my father had one full blood sibling and one half sibling...neither of whom became alcoholics...but then again neither of them were abused as much as my father was.

Of the six of my dad's kids, one is an alcoholic and it has impacted that sibling's life negatively. Another is borderline and could easily become a major alcoholic. The other four of us drink very rarely, if at all, mainly due to not wanting to continue the cycle. None of us are active in the church...I'm the only one who married a mormon.

I know a few. Obsessive, addictive tendencies and ADHD are common in my cohort and larger social circle. Many self medicate which can result in dependence on various substances (some legal, some not).

But, that said, they are also some of the smartest, most creative people on this planet. And two in particular are highest functioning alcoholics I've ever encountered. Creative and productive while completely in their cups. I remember how shocking it was to me at first. Poor little innocent ex-mormon.

The nice thing, is no one has ever forced anything on me. Not even mild peer pressure. I drink (I'm especially fond of Red Wine and single Malt scotches - that I can't afford) but, no one has ever tried to make me drunk, or mocked me for declining a refill.

...what was the question?

I was declared an alcoholic by the State of Montana, my employer, and the Federal government of the United States.

I do not drink now, nor have I in several years. I certainly am not an alcoholic. Since I have not had a drink since 2007, no I am not in "denial" or any of the other medical sounding terms they concoct.

Let me just state I stopped drinking without AA, and in spite of the misinformation and disinformation perpetuated by the recovery industry.

I do not consider alcoholism a disease, but rather a behavior....as does 80% of American physicians.

Come on. You know how many fingers and toes I have! I can't even count them. Anyhow. How many should I know?

I've known people who "drank themselves to death". One guy drank about three gallons a week (of the cheapest vodka and crap you can imagine + a whole lot of beer). Another man, friend and neighbor, was told by his doctor he drank too much and must stop! He did for a while (less than a year) and then I heard he started up again and a few months later he died (then tragedy struck again when his wife died in a car accident just a few hard years later).

How many do you know?

PS - to add - Mormonism takes a lot from people: from dreams to passions to livelihoods and lives to emotional, spiritual and physical health and wealth to dignity and respect and truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2014 11:04PM by moremany.

The alcoholics I know are not members or active members of the LDS Church. Some still alive have some association with Mormonism but because of their life style of alcohol and drugs were not active in any way. I'm all to familiar with family members and others with DUI's.
Some I knew well are deceased - mostly close relatives. Certainly not religious in anyway. There is also a lot of geriatric alcoholism. Ran into that problem when I had my own Elder Service business.

I don't know if religion has much to do with being a alcoholic.
I am in the camp that it's a behavior problem, not a disease. Always have been.
I'm also a believer in the propensity of a familial connection
going through generations even though they didn't know each other.

It's easier not to drink in the first place. The damage from alcoholism is often generational and totally unnecessary.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2014 11:00PM by SusieQ#1.

My father was an alcoholic, although no one ever put that label on him until later. The definition of alcoholic then was the bloke dying of alcohol poisoning in the gutter. My Dad was not like that, but was seldom without a drink, would lie about it, let it VERY much affect the family etc etc.

I know several now, one is still drinking, the others in recovery. To me it is an isidious disease that causes a LOT of harm to the drinkers themselves and their families and all those around them. My brother and I have avoided any problems with alcohol by joining tscc in our teens and now in old age and no longer members, have no desire to drink. I simply do not like it, my brother is on a lot of medication (as I am) and alcohol is not a good idea with them.

Bert Wrote:
--------------------------------------------------->... How many people do you know who are miserable and it can be traced to the [Mormon] church?

Almost all of them, in some way or another.

It makes most current and some former members misers.

I am not miserable but I'm sure I can trace half of my headaches, some of my delusions (about anything, if I had any) and all of my heartaches on TMC.

"Mormonism Made Me Miserable"©M@t

Well, of course I try to get - or have gotten - over it.

I can't say it has (directly) caused me to drink and do drugs - I'd probably do them anyway - but we know it has.

It did make me appreciate life more... and I've been doing it ever since.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 01:30AM by moremany.

My father died when I was 15. My mother died 29 1/2 years later, to the day. I don't believe that, to her dying day, she ever got over her grief at losing him. She did not believe in expressing grief. The only time she could admit missing him and feeling lonely was when she was so drunk she could barely walk.

She began drinking heavily after he died. She was a registered nurse - a good one - and never drank during work hours. She worked the 7 to 3 shift and would stop at the liquor store on the way home and buy a 6-pack of beer. By the time my grandmother and I had supper ready by 5:30, the last of the 6-pack had been consumed, and mother was so bloated with beer that she was not hungry. Heavy smoking and alcohol consumption: osteoporosis, anyone?

Her speech would get slurred and she would get bitchy. Then she would call people, because she was lonely. You can imagine, being called by a sloppy drunk did not endear her to people. One time, she was pissed at the administrator of the hospital where she was the director of nursing. They had had a run-in over something that was served to a patient at mealtime. I was right there and heard what she said to the administrator. I kept making "STOP!" motions with my hands but she paid no attention. I may have been a dumb teenager who had never held a job but I had enough sense to know that you don't just get drunk and call your boss at home and call him an SOB, even if it is true.

Her severance check was on her desk the next morning.

She got a job in a nursing home after that, just something to tide her over until she could get her widow's Social Security.

Her drinking was one of the reasons I applied for a university fairly far from home. She and I had NEVER gotten along, even when I was little, but after Dad was gone (he had been the peacemaker) and she started drinking, she was intolerable.

She fell and broke a hip (probably drunk at the time) and had to go into a nursing home. For the last decade or so of her life, she remained in some sort of care facility. Nobody would bring her cigarettes or booze, so she had to quit both, cold turkey. That must have been brutal, both for her, and for the people who had to take care of her. She could be EXCEEDINGLY abusive, verbally. Fortunately, I lived hundreds of miles away at that time, and did not have to endure the abuse I'm sure she dished out to everyone else.

Whenever she had to have surgery, I would come home from school to be with her, and I would always let the surgeon know - either verbally or via a note slipped into his hand - that she was a VERY heavy drinker and to please be aware of that at the time of surgery. Frequently, when the surgeon would come out to the waiting room to let me know how things went, he would thank me for letting him know about her drinking. It affected her metabolism and what medicines they could give her.

I tried often to talk her into going to AA. Her first line: "It's nobody else's business." And then the killer, which I consider diagnostic all by itself: "I can quit any time I want to." Yeah. Right.

I was very cautious when I first tried alcohol. If I had discovered any kind of compulsion to keep drinking, I would have stopped, immediately. But fortunately, I did not inherit that gene. I am able to enjoy a single drink with dinner and let it go at that. (And nowadays, I'm not supposed to drink ANY alcohol, but on special occasions I may have a wee snort!)

I've known two alcoholics intimately, and have been acquainted with probably another half-dozen. My paternal grandfather, whom I never knew, was an alcoholic. One of my great-grandfathers was a heavy drinker, but I have no idea whether his case crossed the line into addiction.

I'm a nevermo, so most of the people in my life are also nevermoes & I can't link their alcoholism to Mormonism. But all of the substance abusers I've known -- alcoholics, drug addicts, or just problem-user non-addicts -- have had a history of either child abuse or other mental health problems or both. Substance abuse is usually about self-medicating. There may be a small number of addicts who were just unlucky, had genes that predisposed them to addiction, and got addicted while doing the normal young adult partying, but I would guess that that accounts for ten percent or less.

I know one ex-JW who has borderline personality disorder, but she is not an addict or problem user. I've noticed that JWism does seem to produce a disproportionate number of BPD cases, and according to one ex-JW activist I know, heavy drinking is common among active JWs. I bet if you asked on an ex-JW board, you would find a lot of addiction and mental health problems that CAN be traced to their cult, especially if they were raised in it.

Quite a few family members... Including my dad and his dad. I also have a very good friend who is. His brother and sister are also alcoholics. All I know is that alcohol affects some people very differently than others.