Here's the issue I'm struggling with lately....

I feel like this comes up a lot - Mormons tell each other how wonderful it is that we know God's plan, how wonderful that we have "access" to the atonement, how wonderful that the sealing power is on the earth, how wonderful that we know where we're going after this life (and we have the covenant pass to get to the best place).

Part of leaving Mormonism for me is leaving behind this fairy tale of having all the answers. Based on other posts here lately, I'd guess that some of you know what I mean when I say that even though it's just a fairy tale, I remember when it felt like a nice fairy tale.

I think that for many, part of the logic that gets you to the conclusion that "the church is true" is the reasoning that God, being good, would naturally give His children the clear truth. Voila! - prophets do that for us.

Because this issue comes up so much in my conversations with members, I'm trying to find better responses or reasons why creating or requiring a church is NOT the most loving, benevolent action a God would take for His children.

Does that make sense? Do you agree? Any thoughts?

Better to have no answer than a wrong answer that seems correct.

". . . why creating or requiring a church is NOT the most loving, benevolent action a God would take for His children."

I thought this same thing too many years ago to admit. My thought has always been this:

The true test of a man is not whether he can follow the rules, but will he still do his best, be good to others and strive to be all that he can be if there are no rules?

If I were God, the last thing I would want to surround myself with are a bunch of goody goody two-shoes brown-nosing fawning yes men. I would want some free thinking spirited people who are not afraid of their own intelligence. Who could actually accomplish something on their own.

Everything man claims God to be seem like inventions of man--because they are. If there were a God, I would hope to hell he is nothing like Mormon God.

Blueorchid said what I think very well.

It seems to me that churches all too often are used by the hierarchy to further their own personal goals. Those goals are stunningly frequently the same: power, control, wealth.

If you purport to speak for god, that gives you immense power over everyone else. And power does corrupt.

There are a few religious groups which manage to avoid this. And a few which have managed to overcome the earlier power-based organization and act more to the benefit of the membership and even to the benefit of humanity and the world in general.

They are far too rare, from what I see.

You ever see the Documentary, Following Sean?

This guy is fascinated by this little boy being raised by hippies, who let him smoke pot and pretty much do whatever and go where ever he pleases. He interviews the little boy and is asking what he thinks about God.... and asks him how he can know what is right if he doesn't believe in God..... and this little four year old boy says.... I trust my own brain....

hahahahha... loved that.

Brilliant! I love documentaries, but haven't seen that one. Will have to look it up.

I think if I were a god or a deity (NOT that I am not real close, mind you), I would WANT PEOPLE TO LOVE ME BECAUSE THEY wanted TO, not BECAUSE THEY WERE SCARED NOT TO.

Ooops, sorry, caps lock. If I really *were* a deity, I'd get me some opposable thumbs!

The StalkerDog™ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think if I were a god or a deity (NOT that I am
> not real close, mind you), I would WANT PEOPLE TO
> LOVE ME BECAUSE THEY wanted TO, not BECAUSE THEY
> WERE SCARED NOT TO.

That's actually what most normal churches say - Mormonism not being a normal church.

as a general rule, Mormons like to Pretend they can get 'all' the facts they need to make any decision such as who(M?) to vote for, etc.

I once asked a know-it-all Bp what he would do about nuclear waste... THAT SHUT HIM UP!

It was written and approved for teachers Manual:
The thinking has been done!

When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan–it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.

"I would rather live with a good question than a bad answer." Rabbi Arych A. Frimer


His reasoning makes a lot of sense to me.

> ...prophets do that for us.

Which prophets? Because Brigham is flat out ignored for most of what he said was doctrine.

This idea that having a prophet made things clearer would be fine if they didn't contradict themselves, remain silent on real issues, and generally pretend they have a direct line to god but don't like to use it much.

Unless it's about wearing too many earings.