That one time you were married to a TBM patriarchal ass... Oh wait that's my life. Mormons are such shallow, sheep I think it'll eventually drive me to an institution. And they don't see it!!! I can acknowledge "hey I'm moody today or hey I am not well inforned on ISIS" Mormons think because they can answer the questions...where did i come from? Why am i herr and where am i going? That they're the bomb diggi diggi. And the answers to those questions are fairy tale bullshit. UGH!! So I'm pregnant....if you didn't notice from my screename you may be able to tell from my crazy rant. And my oh so worthy lds TBM is all angry because I went to a work dinner and ordered a virgin drink which I mentioned to him in passing. He says I'm a liar and it was alcoholic. ARE YOU F%#/$&€ KIDDING ME. Somehow he's made the connection that because I don't believe the same idiot fairy tale he does I am suddenly a piece of garbage who likes to drink while pregnant. I'm so offended that he thinks my morals are so low and apparently this is his high opinion of me. Just previously we had what I thought was our first good non argumentative conversation about my beliefs and I shared how hard it was for me to leave the church and how much more at peace I feel. I asked him to try and emphasize with me and that I wished it were true because the families are forever concept would be amazing. An hour after the fact he goes "I can't believe I'm having a baby with....you". I don't feel like I can trust myself right now because of my hormones but come on! What kind of a monster did I marry?!?! And his mother thinks I'm the shameful one. HA

Sounds like you are better off on your own to be honest. He's not just a TBM, but he's emotionally abusive.

Deep down I know you're right and I am sobbing writing this but I don't know what to do. I know I'm not at the point of walking out but everything in me would support that decision for any other woman. Heck I would encourage it. He has said so many hurtful things that go beyond just comments you make when you're angry and he feels their deserved. Doesn't apologize and I tell him keep doing this and you'll push me away. He slapped me jokingly the other day and I lost it. You don't slap your wife, a woman, another person as a joke. He said next time it'll be back handed. I said you do that and I'm gone. So he lightly tapped my face with the back of his hand and send end it then. What am I doing!!!!??? I've devoted 9 years of my life to this relationship. Now I'm pregnant....great. I'm yet another sorry case of a woman who has no self respect and stays in a bad marriage because shes too weak and in love with a douche to leave.

That makes my heart hurt for you. I'm so sorry you have to go thru this. I've been divorced due to an unhealthy relationship with a child involved. I understand the pain and hopelessness.

The bright side for you: you've already faced the facts and developed enough courage to leave a previous relationship (the lds Church). Yes, that was a relationship. And the feelings that are associated with leaving are the exact same that are felt when leaving a human relationship. So try and look at it that way and recognize you've already exhibited the strength to leave when you knew it was wrong and unhealthy. You can find that courage and strength again.

Know you have all of us here as a source of strength. :)

Oh. I didn't read that part. That hurts. It's not love, it's attachment. Maybe codependency. Love comes from inside you. Whatever is inside him, it's not love. Would you like to trade guys? I'm available. Arizona is beautiful in the winter.

with anyone who could profess to follow Christ. This sounds like something minor I know but it is very significant. It was doing this, in a very matter of fact way that eventually helped TBM DH see that Mormons/Mormonism was a fraud.

Wait until things calm down and approach him when he is being more humane. Point out to him that his behavior has no validity-especially in the context of "Christianity".

Oh, HELL no.

The slapping will only get worse. He told you it would, then he hit you again.

Run, hon.

Read what you wrote. Now imagine him doing that to your child.

Trust me, he will. That's how this works.

This is not just about saving you, this is about saving your child.

There are many of us on here who have regrets. You see this early enough to protect your kid. You can make better choices than I did.

Find someone to help you. Find someone to help you *know* that this is not normal - because it isn't.

Protect your child. Don't let him do this to them.

I hoped that having a baby would somehow soften him, make him more gentle and caring.

I was wrong. He continued to be verbally abusive to me, and both verbally and physically abusive to our son.

Now, son and I (and grandchildren) live in a different state. Son has very little contact with his father, and I have none at all - for over 25 years.

Unless you can convince him to get into therapy (and abusers are seldom willing to consider this, because it would demand change) it sounds like you may have some tough decisions ahead of you. I wish you the best.

I hear the same story over and over again for years. When I was a Parole & Probation Officer, I had to put up with this kind of scum. Women and children being abused by the husband is unacceptable. When I was growing up 50 years ago, a male was thought to be nothing but a stinky coward for abusing females. I wish I were your father. I have three adult daughters. Their husbands/partners are not going to abuse them. It is because their father would be the abuser's worse nightmare. I know violence does not solve things, but I would bitch slap your husband into next week.

I truly believe that if my father had been around to see the way my now-ex treated me, he would first have given the now-ex a verbal warning to straighten out, and treat me with love and respect.

The now-ex was arrogant, and he probably would have told my Dad to back off. I think Dad would probably have grabbed hold of him by the scruff of the neck and the waistband of the trousers, and pitched him toward the road. He would have told him, "Don't come back."

Dad was slender, with the kind of long, lean musculature that you see in runners. But he had studied both boxing and martial arts, and while he was at heart a gentle soul, he would not put up with bullying or disrespectful behavior. If the now-ex had dared to try to throw a punch, Dad would have tied him in a knot before he knew what hit him.

I remember my uncle - Dad's older brother - telling me stories about how when Dad was in the Army, he was required to train in both boxing (maybe just hand-to-hand combat) and martial arts. According to my uncle, Dad didn't always play by the rules, but he always won, and the instructors just shook their heads. The word got around: "Don't mess with that kid!"

It would have been wonderful to see my father confront my nasty ex. Watching the ex slink away with his tail between his legs (so to speak) would have been marvelous. And I don't doubt for a minute that this would have been the outcome. The ex was a verbal bully, but Dad would not have let him get away with it.

Sorry you have to put up with this. It's really a shame that Mormon brainwashing is so bad that it blinds people to the value of human life. You are bringing a new human being into the world, and instead of treating you as the light of creation he treats you like a daughter of perdition.

Trust me, it's not you. It's him. And actually it's the psychologically destructive cult conditioning. In a reasonable world it would be illegal.

Your awakening is a boon for the baby. It's wonderful that it will not be brought up with Mormon mental enslavement. You know, the emotional abuse that your hubby puts through is a lot more damaging to the baby than a drink of alcohol. What, does he think you're a cow gestating a calf? If I had a baby on the way, my feet would never touch the ground.

Best part. He is probably a "worthy" priesthood holder who attends the temple regularly and holds a patriarchal calling where he is seen as a poor struggling man attneding church and activities by himself who's wife has been corrupted and entangled by satan. hahahaha oh the humour in this

I wouldn't say you're in the worst relationship out there. I mean it could be worse not that it's great though. Give it time. My wife eventually left the church. It took years but it happened. It could happen for you.

He's acting like a petulant toddler.

You are saying that you would like to leave, but are not emotionally ready to admit that you can't love who he has become, and (I think) are afraid to be a single mom.

Those are huge fears, but they don't have to make you vulnerable to emotional abuse, or potential physical abuse.

You have the power to start feeling safer in this relationship. You don't have to decide to leave or not right now, but you can prepare for "the last straw," if that time comes.

Start gathering emergency funds (that he doesn't know about) for you and the baby. Keep some cash on you, your car full of gas. Put some cash in a pre-paid card account (no statements will be mailed), enough for a couple of weeks. In a nearby, different town, put cash and any documents you may need in a safety deposit box.

Hide a change of clothes in your car.

Open a small secure storage facility unit, put "precious memories" (photos, keepsakes, books/music you love). You can put things you buy for the baby in there. Bottles, diapers, toiletries, even a small crib if you want.

You can talk to an attorney about your options, go to counseling (non-lds) to vent with a real human.

Think about dialing 911. Do you have a "safe room," one he can't break into, in the time it would take you to call? Keep a phone in there.

You get the idea. The problem with abusive people is that they don't "get better" because their victims command them to, or threaten them with leaving. That just lets them know that their abuse is having an effect, and they feed on your reactions. I'm sorry to say this, but it sounds like you're being groomed for serious physical abuse. Right now, your self esteem is being overtly attacked. When you are in emotional tatters (wondering if you "cause" the abuse), it is likely to become physical, and he has already given you that "red flag warning" by crossing that line. This is very unlikely to have a happy outcome.

If you aren't ready to leave, at least empower yourself to do so by preparing. You can love this innocent child in relative peace, and with your whole heart. It is sad that he is choosing to harm you, cause such pain to a pregnant woman, his own wife, and I can only imagine his treatment of the child if you don't allow his or her brainwashing.

You are experiencing the bad side of being "his property," and as such, he feels entitled to treat you any way he wishes. To challenge that is to threaten his identity, and he will not take kindly to it. Just be prepared. I wish you well.

^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^

Is this your first child? Often, abuse starts or escalates when the relationship is more secure or it's harder for the victim to leave (at marriage, at first child, if wife quits job).

I agree that physically crossing the line is never a good sign. Abuse almost always escalates.

I'm all for preserving families as much as possible. I think it's such a terrible mistake to break up families over religious differences, such as one spouse being in the Church, and one not.

My brother-in-law quit the church a couple years ago. My sister freaks out if he has beer in the fridge and things of that nature. I tell her to remove her kids' father from the home would be terrible and tragic for something so trivial. Similarly your husband should show similar tolerance or he'll miss out on being fully in his child's life.

But on the other hand if the relationship is really abusive or trending that way, it would be best to end it now. End it before your baby becomes attached to him. End it before your child is subjected to the abuse. End it so you can be in a healthy state of mind to raise the baby.

I have my own relationship issues, due to my wife's mental and emotional condition, and trust me with four kids who are older it becomes MUCH more complicated.

He is toying with you much like a cat does to a mouse but eventually the mouse just dies from the abuse.

As painful as it is and scary as it is to even contemplate, my advise is to vacate now, before the baby is born. He thinks he owns you and now that you are pregnant, doubley so. He thinks he can do anything and being the man/priesthood holder, get away with it.

Document his abuses. (Even the so called "playful" ones.) You will be glad you did and start looking for a non-LDS divorce lawyer.

This person is not someone you want in your babies life or in yours. JMHO

Great advice from be ready. Hope you are listening. You don't have to leave right now, but get ready so when you know you do need to leave, you are ready.

Please listen to the posters such as be ready, dejavue, imaworkinonit, and paulk. The things that you have described in your two messages are signs of an abusive spouse. One who thinks that you are his property and that you are powerless to do anything about it. That mindset can and often does lead to greatly increasing abuse over time.

I know (been there) that it's so easy to think "This is just a fluke. He doesn't really mean it. He'll get over it and things will get better." And so on and on. It may even seem to be better, for a little while.

It does not get better in the long run, though. In the long run, he will exert his power over you more and more. The abuse will get stronger and stronger. It will hurt you more, and it will be devastating for your child to grow up in such a situation.

Even if you don't yet realize that *you* deserve something much better than this, please act to protect your child from living in such a mess. Document every abusive thing that he does. Include everything abusive that he says. Find a trustworthy, non-LDS person and confide in them. Let them know about every bad thing that happens.

In all likelihood, some day you will need to establish a pattern of abuse in front of a judge, and if you want to protect your child, you will need to make it clear that it is not good for the kid to be in your husband's custody.

Most important thing to remember. Abuse does not end. It want simply go away. He is just getting started. Unless you tow the line and most importantly bring the baby up in the church, things will never change but only get worse.

You have a choice. A lifetime of misery in a abusive relationship that will most likely bring harm to your child, weather it be physical or emotional. Harm to her / him will happen.


Or leave and protect your child and yourself.

No crying.
No rants.
No arguing.
No emotion-bending.
No manipulations.

Call that divorce lawyer and get the ball rolling!

Along the way, offer him deals to resolve things. Such as, have him agree to RESIGN FROM THE CHURCH in order to share custody and perhaps even patching up things in the future.

I would agree with those who say the flags for abuse are there (both psychological and physical.) I would have a conversation with your husband about if there was any physical abuse between his dad and his mom (if there was, it makes the potential high that he will do that as well.) And I would let him know very clearly that it is not okay to slap you in any way, shape or form.

And as others have said, start thinking about an exit plan should that become necessary.

He has hit you once, he will do it again. That is such a sure bet that no bookie will give you any odds at all.

There wasn't even any regret after the fact from him. Abusers normally beat their partner, then are really apologetic and tearful and nice to you for a while, then they are back to being abusive again.

He WILL hit you again and then blame you for making him mad enough to hit you. He will systematically turn everyone in your circle against you - even your family if he can. If he cannot turn them to his side, he will work on you til you fall out with your family and friends, one by one, and have no one left to turn to when he beats you soundly in front of your children.

Violent relationships only get more violent. There are lulls between the violence but the lulls get shorter and the violence increases.

Guard your self esteem - you and your child deserve better.

Every battered spouse says the same thing: they knew they should have left the first time they were hit, but they did not. Because they tolerated it once, they continued to tolerate it.

How much will you tolerate? It is only a question of when he will do it again, not if and he has already told you it will be with the back of his hand, ie, will hurt more. Where does the hurt end? with a knife in your gut? Your kid's gut? If he hits you he will definitely hit your child/ren.

Protect yourself.

He is putting a pregnant woman under undue stress which can have lifetime implications for the mental health of your child.

Protect your child while you protect yourself.

Remember he will do it again, the only question is when next?

I'm sorry to be so blunt.

Do not stay in a physical abusive relationship no matter how co-dependent you are on this creep.

It will only get worse.

He's hit you while you're pregnant, and laughed at you while he did it! How can you love the creep, let alone have any shred of respect left for him?

Leave now, don't wait. If you need a women's shelter, you'd be high up the list because of your condition. You need to get out of there.

Why wait? Guys like that end up murdering their wives, then hiding the evidence.

Don't let him know where you went, just leave.

This wasn't written by you, was it?

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1852655,1852655#msg-1852655

Please Please Please leave and get help. He *WILL* hit you again. He *WILL* hit your child. The Morg *WILL* support HIM, NOT YOU.

I speak from experience. Cut your losses, it will be hard but, you can do it! You will be able to make it and you will be happy again, but if you stay, he will destroy you.

You are old enough I suspect to be my daughter. At 70 I could certainly be old enough to be your father.

1. Get prepared- lots of great advice above. LISTEN
2. Where are your parents or siblings? A safe house is a must and one where rent may be absent or shared
3. Where is your career? Make contacts unknown to him
4. GET OUT of the relationship shortly after the episiotomy...nothing is going to change. Can't wait for you to describe his behavior in the hospital. It will be all about him- his child, his hopes- and enabled by his family.

Gatorman
1-0

I saw a trailer for a movie that is supposedly based on a true story. It was called something like "The Girl in the Box" about a girl who was kidnapped and shut up in a box for more than 4,000 days.

In the trailer, she is sobbing as she asks her captor "Why are you doing this to me?"

His answer was chilling and probably applies to every rapist or abuser:

"Because I can!"

Please get online and research Borderline Personality Disorder. You will find out some things that in your head you know, but your heart keeps over-riding. One example: do you think if you just do more and better (any topic), that he will finally be kind and loving? It will never happen. The more you give away of yourself, the more will be taken until you're drilled down to a 'Cipher in the Snow.'

IMHO, you can take the narcissism for years, which is slow spititual death. Or, you can take the shorter, acute and temporary pain that leads to spiritual freedom.

I feel your pain from 30 years of trying. I don't know you, but I love you - one human to another valuable human.

Please get out now! I say this from experience. Please listen especially to gatorman and amyjo.

It is well documented that abuse escalates during pregnancy. Please do whatever it takes to get away from him and stay away!

You may be tempted to think things will improve after you have the baby, because he'll love you AND the baby way more than just you.

This is what they call "magical thinking" and the Mormon Church encourages it with all their nonsense about burning bosoms while their brotherhood is abusing women and children.

It won't get better. Listen to this true experience one of my daughters is having right now. She found this depressed narcissist guy who is drop dead gorgeous, makes good money and (too bad) is cruel in a frighteningly matter-of-fact way. FOR EXAMPLE: when she was in the hospital, the baby was in the little bed crying and she asked him to give her the baby (she's recovering from a C-Section). He says, "No, she needs to learn to sleep by herself." LATER that week it's time to go home. We're not religious, so the taking the baby home is when we do the whole fancy christening dress bit. Her sister had bought an expensive dress and I was there as the photographer. The husband refused to get the dress out saying he was tired of being told what to do. I immediately went to the suitcase and my daughter gasped, "Mom, don't, I don't want to make him mad." Her eyes were full of tears.

No dress, no pictures. LATER four weeks after the baby came home, he opened the shower while she was luxuriating under the hot spray finally getting the ok, and she's breastfeeding and not getting enough sleep...He says "You're using too much hot water, get out of there and dry off."

I could give you more examples, but you get the picture. That's what you get with a narcissist, a sociopath, or a borderline personality guy. They are divorcing, she has finally had enough. The baby is 16 mos old and she doesn't want to wait until her little girl knows what's happening.

Hate to say it sweetie, but IT DOES NOT GET BETTER.

Like the posters above, I advise you to RUN from this man.



Kathleen