Trying to do something impossible? We’ll see.

I read one post that says that one of the major problems that contributed to that person leaving the church was that the TBMs didn’t treat him the same as he treated his friends in the church. That he was kind of shunned or avoided instead of receiving the same treatment all his friends received. The poster then used the word ‘hypocrite’ evidently referring to the fact that the TBM said he agreed with what the church was teaching but he didn’t live his life that way. He said the TBM was criticizing, attacking, judging etc. etc. and he didn’t want to take that any more, so he left.

The impossible thing I’m trying to do? I never had any desire of attempting this, nor ever remotely thought of doing what I’m doing right now. And I wouldn’t do it if a brick hadn’t hit me in the head a week or so ago with the thought that I needed to do it. I may have to modify my approach a bit so I don’t anger the majority of you. I’m attempting to do what all these other fruitheads (you might call them) never did nor tried to do. I’m trying to yes understand, and yes treat you like regular, normal people. Not like someone who we need to keep away from, condemn, crash and wipe out. I’ll have to be more careful to not preach. You know that I am a TBM and will always be. The difference is that I want to try and understand you better. Give me a chance to prove myself, so that you’ll realize that all TBMs aren’t the same. And don’t classify me with the other ‘enemies’.

You want a website for exes, nons, antis, and anybody who is going to criticize and bombard the church. This is your outlet. I understand that. I want to treat you as ‘normal’ people, try and treat me the same. I have no ulterior motive. I’m just trying to understand better. Maybe I can help others on my side to understand better. We’re all on this planet together. I believe that we are brothers and sisters. It would be super if we could live together in some peace and harmony. I don’t smoke or drink (you know)- I’ll leave space for those of you that do, to think and do as you want. Zap me if I criticize. If I get out of line, kick me in the rear! But let me stay! I’m sort of a maverick (and not a gas station). I’m different. Who else would attempt to do what I am doing! I want to show you that there are some decent people who are Mormons that care, and not just about themselves.

That’s all, that’s my disclosure. Best to all of you. caaron

Your approach sounds like a slightly more nuanced version of "We're sorry you were offended, now let's sit around and eat these here collies I just baked and hang out."

I can't speak for anybody else, but I'm pretty sure being "offended" by quirky Mormon behavior is at the bottom of the list of why people have left. At the top of the list would be the outright lies and deception perpetuated by the church since its inception, among many other things.

You're welcome to participate, but you will be called on any apologetic BS swiftly and harshly. I wish you luck.

Cookies, not collies.

"Lassie! What is it, girl? What's that? (Woof, whine, arf.) You're saying someone left the oven on? Quick, we have to go check it out!"

{JK for all the animal lovers}

You have no ulterior motive? Let's see, in your third-ever post here, you offered the tired story about how the poor Mormons were persecuted "because of their different beliefs and practices." Then you added a patronizing opinion that most people who drink alcohol (and use tobacco) "wish they could quit" and that "drinkers rarely mix with non-drinkers." [You didn't say the same about coffee and tea, which are also judged harshly by your fellow TBMs.] For the record, I don't smoke or drink, and I've never had a problem being around drinkers, nor they with me. Perhaps you need to find some normal people to socialize with.

You got slapped down pretty hard for that clueless post. We understand church doctrine, and know its history, as well as or better than you do, so lecturing us will not turn out well for you. If you continue to go down that road, I'll make a prophecy that you're going to find your time here short and painful.

One more thing, from that earlier post: "Some have built a little wall around them because they fear being mistreated again." In Utah, where they've run the show from the start? LMAO. More like they're taking Clayton's April address to heart and are disconnecting.

I *really* enjoyed the collies more than the cookies.

I wondered what inside joke I never heard, if it was like the ferret. "Hey buddy - what's up with the baked ferret..."

You're a TBM in a china shop.

The only TBMs I can handle are my family. And some days that's even questionable. ;)

But you are highly likely to receive some harsh questions, such as:

What are you, a TBM, doing on this site? It is thought to be literally impossible for a "TBM" to associate with apostates. Since you ARE here, I will think of you as a TBM "lite." That is not a bad thing, or meant in a bad way.

What is the nature of the brick, and why did it become a brick? I -think- I understand that hypocrisy was the brick, but would appreciate your confirmation, and want to understand why it "struck" you.

And, since you read this board, as most of us hope for TBMs to do, you must realize that there are many atheists among us, such as me. I believe, by weight of the evidence, that man has created many gods, and like any tool, once it reaches a fully functional state, further modifications become unnecessary. The Abrahamic god has practically reached this state, and though the expressions of particulars may vary, the largest part of the world populations' faiths are based on this man-made god.

It's difficult for me to imagine a TBM being "okay" conversing with me, but I must say, the attempt is quite admirable.

I can only speak for myself, not "the board." The board owner, rule stickies and "concrete zipper" mods do that. I am not sure how to vent rage AND be respectful of your beliefs.

All are welcome, but this is the "safe place" to vent at the church and members who do harm; it's about healing. IRL, that's not always possible.

But here, you can have all the virtual coffee you want, so enjoy.

Most people here didn't leave because they were offended. They left because they learned that they were lied to and duped into supporting a real estate empire with a thin sticky veneer of religion. Practically all of the offense comes from families that get broken up when someone can't unlearn what they have learned. This board exists to pick up the pieces of devastated lives.

The church leaders are powerless to correct the situation because they are victims of their own brainwashing. If you want to give it a go, have fun with that. If you want a little excitement in your life, especially if you want your tookus handed to you doctrinally, you've come to the right place.

But having said all that, welcome to the board. I'd offer you a beer but, well, you know. Lots of amazing people here with deep wisdom and compassion. Mormonism will be a sore spot. There are lots of atheists so get used to them. Atheism is the next stop after Mormonism. I wouldn't be surprised if atheists are God's favorite kind of people. If there is a God, the entertainment value can't be beat. If not, they get to say I told you so.

caaron Wrote:
---------------------------------------------------
> You want a website for exes, nons, antis, and
> anybody who is going to criticize and bombard the
> church.

OK, I've never been a Mormon, so I can't speak for anyone here, I am here because I was in a cultish born-again Christian group. I have found many similarities between my experiences and what I see here on the boards.

I think if you believe the reason for this website is to bombard and criticize the church, then you are missing a lot. Some of us here have been downright abused by religion. Imagine if we were physically abused, and talked to a therapist about our experiences. Would you say our therapy sessions were for the purpose of bombarding and criticizing our attacker?

Not to make you feel bad, but just hearing that someone may think we just do this to rip down the church - I'm in tears.

"I’m trying to yes understand, and yes treat you like regular, normal people."

Did it occur to you that we might actually BE normal people. Did it occur to you that if you grew up in a Mormon bubble, YOU might have no idea what normal is? Now I'm not saying that to be rude. I mean it, really. When you are in it, you can't see how strange and controlling, and all-consuming the church really is. I remember being told how special we were, and how people in the world looked up to us because we didn't drink tea, coffee, or alcohol, or shop on Sunday, and we had such high moral standards.

No. Non-mormons don't look up to Mormons. They are just being polite, and when you leave, and they find out you used to be a Mormon, they tell you what they really think--that Mormons are insular and odd. That just one example of how the church warped our perceptions.

It's NOT normal to obsess about why someone leaves your religion, to vilify them in church, to instill fear of associating with them or generalize and make up trivial reasons why they left (milk strippings, or 'being offended) . It's not normal to judge or gossip about them in meetings, or make plans on how to get them back, assign friends who report back, and take cookies to them and send missionaries over to them without appointments. It's not normal to shun them or divorce them, or pressure them to defend their new beliefs to a religious leader.


You: "Not like someone who we need to keep away from, condemn, crash and wipe out. I’ll have to be more careful to not preach. You know that I am a TBM and will always be. The difference is that I want to try and understand you better."

Gee, that's big of you ;-) to want to understand us. But you do know we are all individuals, even more so than when we were all trying to fit our minds into the same mold, right? People can't be categorized into neat little boxes. It's not that simple. I've been out for many years, and can't even tell you how varied the reasons are that led people to leave the church. The reasons for leaving they teach in church are straw men, designed to discredit those who leave and to encourage people to judge and distrust them.

But I'll bite. Trying to understand someone who you don't understand requires you to try to see things from their point of view. So I have some questions for you to think about that might help you understand what most exmos have to deal with:

What would you do if you realized that something Joseph Smith claimed came from God was not true (for example, the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham didn't say what he said they did). Would that matter to you? Would you pursue that question until you got a definitive answer that made sense to you? What would you do if you realized that he got it wrong? What would that do to your faith in other things he said?


How would it change your life if you figured out the church wasn't true?

How would it affect how you spend your time and your money?

How would it affect major decisions in your life, like marriage, career, how many kids you have?

How would it affect your relationships in your family, at work, in your community? How would your spouse react? Would they still love, respect, and want to be with you?

How would it affect your emotions, identity and your purpose for living?

Now ask yourself if anyone would risk everything and go through those changes for a trivial reason, like being 'offended' or because they 'just wanted to sin', or because it was the 'easy' way out (GEEZ). If you were going to leave the church, wouldn't you make absolutely sure you were right, before throwing away your promises of salvation and setting yourself up for eternal punishment, plus lose your entire social standing and community?

And WHY is it that people DO lose their community and relationships? I'll tell you why. Because Mormons stop trusting them, stop respecting them, and push them relentlessly to return to church. Sometimes they get rejected, and sometimes exmos end up distancing themselves from people who will just never give up. I can tell you that the 'angry exmo' usually emerges when people continually prod and pester them about leaving the church.


I know a lot of exmos, and leaving is never easy. Especially when family, friends, neighbors, and coworkers/bosses are LDS. There is a high price for leaving. But people leave because they want to live an honest life, according to their OWN conscience, rather than according to the tenets of a false religion.

You: "Give me a chance to prove myself, so that you’ll realize that all TBMs aren’t the same. And don’t classify me with the other ‘enemies’."

Why would you need to prove yourself, unless you have an agenda? You are a faceless person on a message board. What you SAY proves nothing about anyone, not even you. My impressions of TBMs are based on real life interactions. Most of us here have relationships with plenty of Mormons, and already know that all TBMS aren't the same. Mormons are not enemies. I consider the enemy to be the toxic fear and vilification of those who leave. Sure, sometimes TBMS periodically piss exmos off with pushy or rude behavior. But Mormons are also beloved husbands, wives, sisters, brothers, neighbors, and friends to people on the board.

If you want to make a difference, just be a real friend. Stop judging exmos by what you've been told in church about them. Lay down your agenda to 'understand' (or pigeonhole) exmos. We are all people, just like you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2016 03:04AM by imaworkinonit.

1 billion +++++++

±+++++ infinity.

Well said!

Hi Caaron! The way I see it, if you want to be here, you are welcome. I hope you enjoy your stay!!!

Fluhist! Good to see you!

caaron - You are obviously not here to learn. You sophomoric apologetics will not work with this crowd. There are plenty of other sites for you to visit.

I don't like this. It's not what this board is for and is triggering my PTSD.

If you mean the original post, I'm right there with you. (((Many virtual hugs))).

Thank you, Eric.

Question for you, caaron.

Why are you Mormon? Because you "know" it to be true?
I'll tell you something. I felt the same way about my non-Mormon church. And I had holy conviction that the Mormon Church was wrong. I knew it with every fiber of my being, because it contradicted my Bible. For example, the Bible is clear there is one God, yet Mormonism says it isn't so. What could be more contrary to the clear teaching of the Bible than to say men can become gods? No amount of squirming or changing definitions can change the idea that Mormons put themselves in a position of exaltation, clearly against the Bible the Mormon missionaries to me purported to believe in.

I don't believe in the Christian church anymore. The feelings have changed. It wasn't because I "wanted to sin" , which by the way, is exactly what my non-Mo church group would have said, but it was because love was preached, but never backed up, so I started to question. I couldn't understand it. From my research, I realized this happens in different religions too.

So, aside from the conviction of truth, what does the Mormon church have to stand on? Conviction of truth is not enough, people of other religions are so convinced theirs is the truth they are willing to die for it. So that inner conviction can't be relied upon. I see nothing different in the reasons I believed in my cultish group, except Mormonism has way less outside proofs, like archeological evidence, for example. So what can be relied upon, and how do you know it is reliable?

If you read this site. If you are an intelligent person. If you are not afraid of truth. If you are not afraid, period, there is no possible way for you to believe in the cult.

I love you....No strings attached - just who you are.

Sorry I'm calling bullshit

I've hung out on this board for a long time. One consistent component has been people sharing the pain and struggle of their finding out the truth about the mormon cult. You have done nothing to earn the right to hear their stories. You come here with a very different agenda. I take the site at face value. It is for those recovering from mormonism. YOU are not. We know you and we know your agenda. Remember we used to be you. I feel no reason to welcome you here. You are an interloper who comes with an intention obvious to most of us. Your attempts to explain your purpose are deceitful. Go away. You have not earned the privilege of being here and you offend those who have.

I agree with you 100%.

Weren't us ex-Mormons at some point believers in Moism?

As committed as Caaron sounds right now, fact is he/she may be lurking here for more than merely wanting to empathize with our POV.

How can anyone with a reasonable IQ quota not be influenced by those on this board, and their experiences? A BIC TBM who lurks in the shadows on RfM may someday decide hey, the lightswitch is flipped on, and suddenly see things from a totally different perspective than the one he came here with.

It is possible.

It would take a pretty thick skinned TBM to be able to be here for any length of time IMO. Most would skip town in a heartbeat.

For the same reason I'm not drawn to Mormon websites, for the life of me, why would an uber Mormon be drawn to an ex-Mormon site, unless they have unanswered questions of their own????

Caaron may be searching and doesn't even know it yet.

Maybe he is like the fundamentalists who go to mardi gras to yell at people about sin. It's the only way they get to look at titties like everyone else.

ROFLMAO! :)

For those who continue using the words fictitious, fabricated, and false about the claims made by the church, you are invited to view the following: True or false: A piece of paper folded over 46 times, will take you to the moon and back. False. That’s impossible!” Take a look… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmFMJC45f1Q

Ahhh Mormons and their "object lessons".
You are so right. That piece of paper proves that God is a real human-looking alien on Kolob who sent an angel with a flaming sword to intimidate Joe Smith into having sex with his 14 (sorry, I mean, shy of 15) year old maid.

caaron - You have nothing to offer us here with your posts. You are certainly free to lurk and read all you want. There are Mormon sites for you if you wish to post your thoughtlessness. This site is for those who have discovered the fraud of Mormonism and are adjusting to normal life.

False. Because all you're doing is turning linear area into singular-dimension thickness. So you (and the guy who made the video) ignored the fact that by the time the paper is 238,000 miles thick, it's so small in the other two dimensions that you can't even see it, let alone stand on it to get to the moon.

Of course, the guy who made the video doesn't care. The video is illustrating the *concept* of exponential growth, with a rather contrived (and not real) example.

That you seem to think this "proves" something about the mormon church shows a serious lack of critical thinking skills on your part.

I watched the video and the church is still fictitious, fabricated, and false. That's because a mountain of evidence shows that's the case. Are you the kind to trip over a dead body and still say "Where's the body?"? Or, "'e's not dead, 'e's resting".

I also have more bad news: Santa Clause is made up.

After telling us you have no ulterior motive, you pull a stunt like this? This is the best you can do?

C-Aaron, you have just outed yourself as a liar. And a damned pathetic one at that. You have nothing.

This, my ex-mo friends, is a prime example of someone who is so deep in the Mormon cult that they are incapable of forming logical thoughts.

How he can go from folding paper, to proving what the church leaders say is true... is well beyond all logic.

So.. if something that is impossible is true because of paper... then all impossible things are possible!!

I can fly, I can teleport, I can travel through time with mere thought!

All the beautiful women of the world will love me, and I will be the richest man in the world in the next 15 seconds!

Why? Because folding paper 46 times will take me to the moon and back!

I don't know the area, so I'm only throwing this out there: I think caaron is from West Jordan. Is West Jordan an area that spawns this type of, even for a TBM, aberrant behavior?

I say West Jordan, because that's where he was posting from during his five day foray on PostMo ended and his overweening hubris got his ass tossed.

Assuming a piece of paper can be folded that number of times, it requires a relative simple mathematic calculation to determine the thickness. Offhand, I believe that calculation is 2 raised to the power of the number of folds, times the thickness of the paper.

For example, folding the paper three times equals 8 layers, or 2 cubed. The reason the answer is not intuitive, I believe is because during our evolutionary history,the human mind had little need to understand exponential growth calculations.

Now can you tell me how the thickness of folded paper has any relevance to the truth claims of the LDS church?

You said, "Give me a chance to prove myself, so that you’ll realize that all TBMs aren’t the same. And don’t classify me with the other ‘enemies’."

Uh, your words are about as condescending as condescending gets.

Most of us were heavily invested in the Mormon church. We were missionaries, RS presidents, EQ presidents, and some even Bishops. We were mostly BIC.

Please, do not tell us we don't know Mormons or that we see Mormons as being all alike or that we see Mormons as the enemy. Please do not assume that we as exams all are the same either. The only thing we really have in common is a love of fact, evidence and reason and a new found love of exploring reality.

Please stop trying to teach the teacher.

Exmos, obviously, not exams. Stupid spell check!

>"You want a website for exes, nons, antis, and anybody who is going to criticize and bombard the church. This is your outlet. I understand that."

No, you don't "understand that". At the very top of the page, it says "Recovery Board". This board, as I understand it is first and foremost a place for people who have realized the truth about the church and are facing life while leaving it. This can be a very painful process. Families have been torn apart. People's lives up ended. Life plans completely altered, all because the church.

One person replied that your posts have triggered their PTSD. They are not joking. Would you walk into a group meeting for abuse victims and say that they just want a place to bash their abusers? I certainly hope not, but that is exactly what you have done here. This is a place for people to come together, realize that they aren't alone and what it means to live without the church. It is not a place for TBM's to come and get us to understand them better. Many of us were TBM's we understand them all too well.

>"I want to treat you as ‘normal’ people,"

That statement and it's use of quotes states quite clearly that you don't think of us as normal. It is condescending. If you want to treat us as normal, simply do so.

>"try and treat me the same."

I am treating you as I would anyone else who would come here with your attitude. Most people here treat pretty much everyone normally.

>"I have no ulterior motive. I’m just trying to understand better. Maybe I can help others on my side to understand better."

I have no motive, yet here's my motive... If you want to understand us, read our posts, there are thousands of them here. They tell heart breaking stories of divorce, lose of contact with children, people kicked out of homes, and yes, even suicides. If you really want to understand us, then read our stories and stop telling us that we need to understand you, many of us were you, again, we understand you all too well.

>"We’re all on this planet together. I believe that we are brothers and sisters. It would be super if we could live together in some peace and harmony. I don’t smoke or drink (you know)- I’ll leave space for those of you that do, to think and do as you want."

How very nice of you. Thank you for leaving us some space to think and do as we want... It's sad that you probably don't hear the condescending tone in your words. YOU don't grant us anything. That's not how it works.

>"... But let me stay!"

Why should we do that? What would be the point? To listen to you try to tell us how great you are? No thanks, I have better things to do with my time, and besides, that's not the point of the board. Also, you say you want to "leave space" for us, as long as we let you intrude.

>"I’m different."

No, you're not.

>"Who else would attempt to do what I am doing! I want to show you that there are some decent people who are Mormons that care, and not just about themselves."

Sadly, you probably do think you're different, that you're the first TBM to come here and say, "look, we're awesome, we totally care about you! You just have to understand us better"... You're not. Hate to burst your bubble, but you are a dime a dozen.

You want us to understand you, how 'bout you try to understand us first. READ our posts, don't comment on them, sit in the back of the class and observe. Then, in a couple of months, try asking questions about what you've read, and then READ the answers and really think about what they say. Then join the conversation, rather than telling us how you're granting us our space, be we have to accommodate you and listen to you.

caaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know that I am
> a TBM and will always be.

No matter what evidence shows?
I find that rather silly. And not at all reasonable.

For example, I'm convinced by the evidence that our planet formed from the accumulation of material in the proto-solar nebula around 4.55 billion years ago. However, if convincing, verifiable evidence were made available to show that the earth had a different origin, or a vastly different age, I'd go with the new evidence. Because that's what reasonable, honest people do.

I don't find declarations of "I'll always be(or believe) THIS" at all honest or reasonable.

You're certainly welcome to be here, and to post, as long as you don't "preach." You should probably know ahead of time, though, that the majority of folks here know a LOT more about mormon church history, the problems with it, the issues the church ducks, etc. than you do. So while your personal perspective may be "new" and unique, your arguments won't be. Most of us didn't leave because we were "offended." We left because we got off our butts and learned facts, rather than just taking what the church dishes out as "truth."

Peace.

But I thought the earth was formed by God and was having a grand old time up near Kolob until 6,000 years ago, then it was pushed to were it is now.

I guess God could have formed it 4.55 Billion years ago, and kept it like a pet near his home for all those years, until Adam and Eve upset him.

I have learned to try and be humble enough to go into every conversation or debate with the desire to learn, and not to be right.

Apologists and TBMs go into the conversation with the desire to be right, and not to learn.

While you might feel noble for being here. Almost all of us didn't leave because we felt left out, offended, lack of friends. The first part of understanding our plight is to learn empathy.

We were gas-lit, encountered revisionist history, shunned for thinking for ourselves, dehumanized for using our "god given" conscience, judged for judging the church by its own standards(It has been weighed, measured, and found wanting), blackmailed into self censorship, indoctrinated into harmful dogma, steeped in superstition, had our families and marriages held as hostages, emotionally abused, physically abused.


We left because the church is not what it claims itself to be. The church is objectively false. Claims that the church has made are completely false. Lamenite DNA never existed, there never were gold plates, the first vision didn't happen like we were taught, the translation of the BoM didn't happen like we were taught(and suggesting otherwise got friends of mine ex communicated even though they were 100% correct), there is no translation of the BoA that matches the papyrus. All things that can be verified and checked again and again and shown to be false.

*raises right arm to the square* In the name of Jesus Christ I command your spirit to leave and go back to sitting in a stuffy chapel with your denizens of other science deniers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2016 12:20PM by scaredhusband.

Because I was bic and a mormon for 50 years, I can't see how you being here will add any information to this board. I personally think you're here in an attempt to stroke your own ego at the expense of the exmormons that are here to recover from their exposure to mormonism.

Carry on folks; I don't need to make Internet roadkill of this one.

Came in as caaron, left as carrion. The 18-wheeler kind. Thank you for playing.

LOL, cabbie, you got some funny one-liners.

Why is he still here taking up space?

C Aaron has proven at least one thing.

He's a liar. He follows his leaders well.

Imagine for a minute that I went to a Stake Fireside and asked if I could address the audience for a minute. Then I proceeded to tell them that I was no longer a member of their church and politely asked them if I could just hang out with them so that they might better understand me and understand why I didn't belong to them anymore. How well would that fly with them? I think I would be escorted out the front door much like Lucifer was dismissed from the garden.

Once I was there, now I'm here. There is no going back for me and attempts to seduce me will not work. I'm very familiar with trickery so be aware that I'm also aware. However, if you have a good mormon joke, I'd like to hear it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2016 09:43PM by sunbeep.

Awwww hes so cute...cant we just keep him pa...ill keep him in the barn...he wont be no bother i promise...haha...most mormons really havent a clue why they are to begin with...its hard to hold brainwashing against someone...when its all you know and you never got more than a hundred miles from home...how are you sposed to know better?...im fortunate to have a couple what i consider friends who are tbm...but not really...they dont take themselves and their bs as seriously as most...they treat me with a modicum of having at least a clue...and even tho theyve been in high callings havent a dam clue what their own church says and believes...they spent hours trying to convince me plygmy was wrong but found themselves mere light weights about their own history or doctrine...this was when i still believed that flaming sword horse puucky...many years later there are just too many flaws to ignore...there was quite a knowledgeable young fella on another forum who started this very thing six months ago...today hes joined the dark side...there is just a mountain of evidence against tscc that cant be ignored by anyone with any honesty...most here left because they were honest with themselves and others...if you are...youll soon find out who your mormon friends are...guaranteed

Caaron,

This is a cry for help.

We will help you.

I hope he comes back. He's probably curled up in the fetal position with a Diet Coke and an Ensign.

diet, caffeine-free coke....

He probably gave that up too. Ya know, the "appearance of evil" thing and all...

Arnolds voice...HELL BE BACK!!...once youve tasted the tainted nectar....

Trails end Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arnolds voice...HELL BE BACK!!...once youve tasted
> the tainted nectar....

My feeling, too...