Definitely, here in anonymity; and why not? We mock every other outlandish stories we can think of.

But in our real life no, I have to respect people I know...
almost 100% of our families, employees, patients are strong believers I don't want to alienate them.
Even though I am right to ridicule their asinine beliefs...
X_tianity had a free ride for so long by exploiting non believers rights it is time to dish them out with civility as Dawkins does it brilliantly and Hitchens in his living days.

Of course religion deserves mockery.

Along with scorn, ridicule, and contempt.

Religion is extremely dangerous because it is exploited by the powerful. The exploitation of of people's religious fervor allows some to convince others to do unspeakable deeds that hurt others.

People have a tendency to forget, particularly in Christianity, that when "turns the other cheek" it both creates an injustice and emboldens aggressors.

Yes. And the exploitation factor is why Karl Marx said this:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

Marx was an intellectual pinhead who loved to connive for whatever luxuries he could get (without working for them), neglected his family, and would't pay his housekeeper. His theories were all proved wrong. Three of the five worst mass murders in history (Mao Zedong, Stalin, Pol Pot) committed their exterminations in his name.

Blessed be the name of Karl Marx and his doctrine of Dialectic Materialism.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marx was an intellectual pinhead who loved to
> connive for whatever luxuries he could get
> (without working for them), neglected his family,
> and would't pay his housekeeper. His theories were
> all proved wrong. Three of the five worst mass
> murders in history (Mao Zedong, Stalin, Pol Pot)
> committed their exterminations in his name.
>
> Blessed be the name of Karl Marx and his doctrine
> of Dialectic Materialism.

So this information makes his ideas and quotes less credible?

Personally I have never understood how anyone could think that an ad hominem attack against someone could be considered a valid response to a question, idea, or charge.

When we assess Mormonism, we consider the character of the person or people who originated it, those who follow and espouse it, and what it produced during the period of its origin, subsequent times, and current times. Marx was a hypocritical baffoon who camouflaged his bad ideas with convoluted analyses and verbiage. His ideas have produced incalculable tragedy and misery for literally billions.

Like LDS, his economic system has been very useful for a privileged elite ("the Party") who deceive and exploit their captive populations for their selfish benefit. The similarities between LDS and Marxism are staggering: Orwell's "1984" is quite applicable to both, Marxism-Leninism more so.

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Book-Communism-Crimes-Repression/dp/0674076087/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1420219231&sr=1-1&keywords=black+book+of+communism

I certainly am not stating that Marx was any type of great man.

I do think ALL ideas are deserving of scrutiny. If they are good ideas, then they should withstand scrutiny.

I do think that some very bad people do have some very good ideas.

That is why Orwell matters. In his very short life span, he nailed the downfalls of fascism and communism. One could argue, under our present system, that he also nailed capitalism.

Whether that form of capitalism happens to be branded as a religion or as one of the major banks, it would be shortsighted of us to underestimate their power in society. They are also all starting to look far more Orwellian.

As far as I can see it, the only thing powerful enough to combat these forces of evil presently is the internet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2015 01:40PM by deco.

Marx was just a crazy philosopher. He did not commit the atrocities you mention. The U.S. comitted atrocities based on the constitution and that does not mean all their ideas were bad. Go Marx. He really figured out a lot about society. The bible was and stil is used to justify atrocity but that does not make all the writers of it bad, perhaps.

I love mocking religion in the right circles.

But, when it comes to interactions with the pridefully religious, asking the really tough questions in a sincere manner is actually more fun and makes a bigger impact.

Skewer them with facts and reason.

I think religion needs to die a fast death but mockery only fuels their emotional fire (which is all they have really) and will never accomplish the end goal.

Any religion that attempts to exploit people based on unsubstantiated nonsense for monetary gain or power/control should be called out or ridiculed. Especially the overly greedy/dangerous ones such as the Morg, Scientology, Evangelical Protestantism, the Galactic Empire, etc.

hangar18 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any religion that attempts to exploit people based
> on unsubstantiated nonsense for monetary gain or
> power/control should be called out or ridiculed.
> Especially the overly greedy/dangerous ones such
> as the Morg, Scientology, Evangelical
> Protestantism, the Galactic Empire, etc.

Especially examples like mormonism that has created a theocracy in an American state, as well as Islam which has created theocracies in many countries.

Sam Harris did not go far enough in my opinion.

Religion itself, is the mother lode of bad ideas.

In some cases religion can help, if it is not cult-like and oppressive, and there is no need to obligatory donate money, and it actually makes person better.

Somewhere I read "What is good about religion is not unique. What is unique about religion is not good"

I have seen nothing about region that helps people that is unique. What I have seen is religions teach people to have faith in a God rather than faith in themselves and that IMHO is not good.

Teach a person that God has the answers then convince them that you speak for God, you have gained an inappropriate level of control over the person.

Well the unique thing is that religions (which are not cults) can help psychologically very good and it cost nothing (in mainstream Churches). It helps to believe in some higher power, because this world is not a safe place and people don`t know, what will happen tomorrow, and people can`t control many things (nature disasters, ilnesses etc.). Well corruption can be in every religion esspecially in cults.

If, as I suspect, there is not Higher Power, teaching people to believe in one is a lie.

So, are you saying teaching people to believe in a lie rather than themselves and the support of their community is a good thing?

And providing community is not unique to religion.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2015 12:00PM by MJ.

Well if some people are saved from depression by teaching to believe in some higher power (not in extremistic way), then I do think it is just as good as to believe only in themselves.

You are looking at only one side of the story.

There are many people where religion has CAUSED depressions that lead to suicide. I believe that a regular poster here called Flatopsf is just one example. Because of my work with gay homeless teenagers and on a suicide hot line, I know many, many more examples.

IF a few people are saved from depression but many, many more are depressed by religion, religion is still not good because it causes more harm than good.

Just claiming that some people have been "save" without looking at the total cost of saving those few is bull shit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2015 12:15PM by MJ.

Well if you read more carefully, you would know that I am not talking about cults and Mormon religion.I am sorry about all the suffering from cults. Well, but keep living in your world thinking all religion are the same. Ok, good luck. Got to go to work.

Add the Catholic church and Islam, among others, to the list of cults.

Funny how the religious are so fast to redefine religion into "Well if we dismiss all the religions I think are bad and only stick with the religions that are good, religion isn't bad". Silly nonsense.

The fact that you try to eliminate some religions from the group of religions invalidates your argument.

Cults, like the LDS, can still be religions, thus should not be dismissed. Cults are an example of very bad religions. Attempting to dismiss the bad religions because, well, they are too bad to consider is intellectually dishonest.

If we are talking about "religion" as a whole, we must include religions that are cults.

Good luck in your world where you have to dismiss all the religions that do bad in order to keep your delusion that religions are good. Ignore the evidence at your own risk.

No, not all god based religions are the same, there have been tens of thousands that claim that god(s) exist and unless they share the same roots, the gods are all vastly different.

I can be critical of what all god based religions have in common, a faith that god(s) exist. It is that faith I am being critical of.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2015 12:46PM by MJ.

Religions are very bad for people with mental health issues. I could list out all the reasons, but basically they all boil down to religion being trite, invalidating and provides no real help to people with mental health problems. Worse, it often escalates the problems that people have. I've seen this first hand and would never go to ANY religion for help with depression let alone a significant mental health issue.

I think it deserves respect to a degree. If it isn't dictating a person, if that person isn't using it as an excuse to hurt/judge/inconvenience others (IE voting against gay marriages), and if they aren't going around shoving it down everybody's throat, then I say let them believe whatever it is that makes them happy. But it's not very easy to find a religious person who doesn't do those things, so I suppose it's easier in theory than in practice to respect one's religion. I guess what I'm saying is, whether or not I respect someone's beliefs really depends on the person.

Why does an institution automatically "deserve" respect?

Institutions are not humans and do not deserve respect just because they exist. Institutions need to earn respect.

Good point and I completely agree. I didn't actually mean the religion itself though, I just meant that respecting someone's beliefs should be a given until it gets to a certain point

I can respect the right for someone to believe whatever they want.

I will never respect the belief just because someone believes it.

Someone has the right to believe that all Jews need to be burned in gas chambers, I will not respect that belief.

Ridicule that which is ridiculous.

If it helps to reduce the negative emmotions, anger from cult, then why not.

Hi Q, mock away! I don't have any problems with folks going after organizations, systems, ideologies, etc. I don't like it when individuals are attacked.

As a believer, I've yet to read anything here I haven't read or seen elsewhere. Some posters don't realize that many theists are comfortably hearing the opposing view. For example, in discussing what the local Episcopal bookstore would house, a decision was made to give Dawkins, Hitchins, Harris, and Russell shelf space. Why, well most of us have read them and they deserve to be read. Personally, Russell's Why I'm Not a Christian s probably the most articulate of the bunch.

As I've said before, I'm very comfortable with honesty. What I despise is smug, self-righteous, condescending fucks who think they know all the answers. These fucks come in both theist and atheist favors. The Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2015 12:32PM by byuboner.

+1

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/thethinkingatheist/2014/11/04/should-we-mock-religion

Great podcast on this topic

we should mock everything that is dishonest.

Yep, that is the posdcast I stole the headline.
Thinking Atheist is a good podcast.

I prefer to think in terms of no: should's, wouldas, couldas, what if's. We have our personal opinions. We can think anything we want.
I do prefer to choose to be respectful and honor everyone's rights. Those are sacred, in my view.

I choose not to TAKE offense by what anyone says. I can ignore them. Their views are about them. I'll stick to mine.