No doubt keeping your eye on the developments within Mormondom has its entertainment value. And when combined with wishful thinking, the fact that the current version of Mormonism that exists today is unsustainable going into the future may lead many to conclude that Mormonism is doomed, and it's just a matter of time before they start auctioning off McTemples and closing up shop. This would undoubtedly bring closure to many who have suffered at the hands of the LDS church.

However, considering the way mormonism has operated since the 1800s, I think what's inevitable is another reboot, and Mormondom will continue to mainstream itself and live on for generations (and subsequent reboots) to come. While I love getting out the popcorn and seeing what wacky turns the big 15 and PR come up with next, I'm not planning my attendance to Mormonism's funeral, lest I be disappointed. Like the Second Coming, the end of Mormonism just ain't gonna happen.

Religions are amazingly resilient. Some are thousands of years old. Christianity, which is part of the core of Mormonism will continue to survive just as the over dozens of denominations that are part of the core belief in a deity and savior.

As long as people place their faith in the claims and beliefs and teachings, religious belief systems and their World View will survive, for generations.
They all change some what as humans change. That's normal. Nothing stays stagnant when dealing with religions. Some rituals change very little, some a lot.
Religions of the world are responsible for some of the most amazing, incredible, beautiful music, (composers; vocal and instrumental), architecture,(edifices), literature, costuming, foods, rituals known to history of humanity.

I prefer to see the beauty that religions have left to us and how it enhances my experience in my life.

Absolutely. Religion of some sort has been constantly present across cultures since before recorded human history. It's not going away any time soon.

I agree. And also, people think the Bible, etc. were written by leaders to control people and that religion is all manufactured, but it's not.

The isolated humans still living in the wild that have had no contact with the rest of the world are nearly always religious. There's loads of documentaries about them on Youtube, etc, they always worship gods or believe in spirits, even though they've never met outside humans. It seems it's just the way the brains of homo sapiens works.

Quote from a post above: "Religions of the world are responsible for some of the most amazing, incredible, beautiful music, (composers; vocal and instrumental), architecture,(edifices), literature, costuming, foods, rituals known to history of humanity."

Religions are not the least bit to be credited with any of the accomplishments you mentioned, unless it is the credit of being a sponsor. It was the talent of the actual workers that was responsible for beautiful things. The churches had the money to pay the builders and artists and musicians. That is why you have so much religious themed work for the last 2000+ years. They invested this money in buildings, music, art, in order to promote their various faiths. To gain more market share in other words. As for the costuming, it is no better than a student of costuming for theater can do today or the clothing designs for various kinds of wear and occupation by every culture all around the world. The food, hm.. communion host? Rituals? Bits of theater that could be equaled or bested by any visually, theatrical creative person. And let's not forget that the churches' rituals were created to awe the lay person, a sucky motivation.

I think of the reboots as a new form of mormonism that will die.

Over the last few years, I have watched the demise of the 1980's brand of mormonism I dealt with - and it's been very entertaining. I must say, I never saw it coming.

The 1980's brand of mormonism died when the polygamy essay came out, in my opinion. Openly admitting that Joseph Smith was a polygamist is something that the 1980's church vehemently denied.

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" is, by definition, doomed. If Jesus doesn't show up soon, they will have to change their name. If Jesus does return, they will still have to change their name. Either way, "latter-day" is a temporary name, not a permanent one.

BTW, Brighamites, aka TSCC is a splinter group, not the original church. In the original church, the first presidency legally succeeded Joseph Smith, which is why the Strangites were able to claim the Kirtland temple and had started to claim the Nauvoo temple before Brigham burnt it down. My point is that even if TSCC was dissolved, there would be splinter groups that claim to be the original one. So at what point do you consider mormonism a dead religion?

I am going to maintain my year's supply of popcorn ;)

Good point.

The Invisible Green Potato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> BTW, Brighamites, aka TSCC is a splinter group,
> not the original church. In the original church,
> the first presidency legally succeeded Joseph
> Smith, which is why the Strangites were able to
> claim the Kirtland temple and had started to claim
> the Nauvoo temple before Brigham burnt it down.

Correction: it wasn't the Strangites that claimed the Kirtland temple. It was the Reorganized LDS (the "Josephites"). They still own it today.

I also doubt that it's accurate to say that "the first presidency legally succeeded Joseph
Smith" - the problem with the succession was unclear, which is why there were so many claimants.

I think the age of the "all American" Mormon is dead and gone... the Church will continue on, but it will get smaller, and the members more fanatical as all normal, thinking people continue the mass exodus.

I was a product of the 80's and you are right. I was specifically taught that polygamy was a product of Brigham Young and the result of the pioneer trek to the west. (Women needed husbands and there were more women with this need than there were unmarried men.)

There is no disputing this... Until the essays were published.

Religion:

"Man's futile attempt to explain the inexplainable."

Breedum

Mormonism is losing more credibility every day as members leave in increasing numbers. The appeal of the Mormon cult is rapidly decreasing. Lying is unattractive and the crooked Mormon leaders are besides themselves in how to stop the bleeding imo.

Religion is a formalized ode to human stupidity. When more rational humans get tired of STUPIDITY / Religion, then they occupy themselves with science, and do things like invent the computer and the internet, which makes this interchange possible, NOT religion.


IF a person finds religion / stupidity to be inspiring, well that is getting right to the heart of the matter of why religion is going to persist. Religion persists because stupidity persists in the population. MORmONISM is already DEAD, according to the expectations laid out for it by its founder Joe Smith. It will not be completely eradicated for a while because extreme stupidity will persist to one extent or another in the population.

There are only so many "reboots" that MORmONISM can do before it is indescript. It is already irrelevant. The things that really set apart MORmONISM, like those big expensive temples and temple worship, are Negatives. Its a miracle that any thing as STUPID as MORmONISM has gone on as long as it has. Its just a blip in the context of religion.

I really agree with you, Smirk. It will exist in some form for those that need the church in their lives. But as time goes on, it does less and less for normal thinking educated people.

I also agree with your idea that the church has backed itself into such a corner that they have no way to make the church vibrant anymore. They decided through correlation to take the vibrancy out as they saw it as dangerous to authority. Now they're left with only an authoritarian model. How do you 'reboot' that? Especially given the authority is a monoculture of white old males in Utah?

It's been noted that BY was the first AND ONLY president to be elected, after the many claimants' were heard. the myth that BY was 'transformed' in the process is that, a myth. And Grant was seen as JA Smith as well; but nobody mentions this--too miraculous?

Mormonism has to be defined in order for it to end.

If Mormonism were to be defined by Joseph Smith that Mormonism has less than 100,000 followers.

Same for Brigham Young, maybe even less.

One of the advantages for Mormonism is that it is squishy with a short memory or determined blind spot in its mainstream membership.

Define Mormonism in 2015. It is true that Mormonism 2015 will not exist in 2045. There will still be something calling itself Mormonism though.

The demise of Mormon influence, the demise of Mormon political influence, especially in the West and Utah, the end of BYU, the end of the BIC to BIC cycle.

The end of Mormon privilige and charitable status. The exposure of Mormon finances and paid clergy.

Those are measurable outcomes. Some highly desirable, some of them impossible to achieve without unimaginable political change in the United States (please help us Canada, UK, Mexico, Japan, Germany--expose their finances).

The end of Mormonism, not so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2015 03:20PM by gentlestrength.

Considering the fact that IF Joseph Smith (or Jesus Christ for that matter) showed up today, and they wanted to assume the helm of LDS Inc., and they would be laughed at instead of being given charge of things, MORmONISM is dead, it may still exist, but it is dead in any practical sense.

Mormonism is falling out of favor in polite society. It's not okay anymore. So while it may seem too good to be true, I think there will be a serious exodus over the coming decade. Only the zealots and the dysfunctional will be left.

The genie can't be put back in the bottle.

Mormonism as we know it won't survive. Whatever TSCC is in the future, it won't be what we grew up with. It can be salvaged but I seriously doubt that the 15 are up to the task.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2015 03:32PM by bradley.