I decided to give the old college try on a bunch of different world scripture to see which one was 'the truth' of God.

I would basically take a book like the Quran and read for 5 or so chapters and decide 'what I felt' in my heart about it. Then I would pray about that book, just like we are told to do with the Book of Mormon and Moroni's challenge.

Here are the results...

The Sealed Portion by Chris Nemelka- supposedly the sealed ending of the Book of Mormon which for some reason contradicts much that is in the Book of Mormon and the Bible. Eve has sex with Satan, families are bad, the LDS Church is evil, etc. It did have a bunch of the 'deep' LDS ideas that a general church member would have gleaned over the years of membership, mother in heaven, etc., but it seemed ONE dimensional, and didn't inspire me at all. (This is the TBM caveat since I shared a similar version with my TBM wife of this) Some of the ideas may be true but the 'sealed portion' it is not. Actual further research does show the guy was making it all up.

Tao Te Ching - I tried. I really did. Bunch of incomprehensible nonsense.

Bagavita- starts as a war story. Could be based on real events way in the past. I look at it as the India version of the Odyssey or the Iliad. At least the part I got through.

Quran- Allah is great and if you are one of the infidels you are a piece of sh!# who must be destroyed.

Urantia Book - a good plot for a science fiction movie. Multiple God's and Universes ideas mixed a bit with the Bible.

Lost Books of the Bible - some are fiction and metaphorical. Some probably should have been IN the bible as I couldn't see why they were left out (again going from the TBM basis) you have to take each one on a case by case basis for what is reality, metaphor, extrapolation, etc.

Bible - I read Joshua and then Acts. Actually more readable than some of the other stuff mentioned above. Similar thoughts actually to the Lost Books. Some metaphor, some true, some extrapolations.

Science and Health with a Key to the Scriptures - Actually a pretty readable bible commentary with some interesting points and ideas, though I didn't get that 'burning in the chest' that I should take it any more seriously than any other bible commentary.

(Here comes the controversy for this page, but it's my honest to goodness assessment looking at all of these.)

The Book of Mormon - As far as literature in general vs. The Sealed Portion...it BLOWS it out of the water even though the sealed portion is supposedly written by Moroni too. So either Smith or Moroni were better wordsmiths than Chris Nemelka. As far as tone whereas the Quran is a book of hate, at least in Alma where I chose to randomly read it was more a book of love. If Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, it seems deep down he actually liked people, whereas Mohammed(peace be upon him) wrote the Quran and not the angel Gabriel, really DIDN'T like people.

So which was the hardest to read? In order of difficulty

1. Tao Te Ching
2. Quran
3. Bagavita
4. Urantia Book
5. Lost Books of Bible/Old Testament
6. New Testament
7. Science and Health
8. Book of Mormon

Of course it could be the fault of the English translations I read for the Quran and the Bagavita. the Quran just seems to go on and on about how the infidels or anyone who isn't Mohammed is going to get it.

So going with my gut...Quran was written by a hateful deluded mad man.

Tao is poetic but I have no idea what it is saying.

Bagavita is the India Iliad

Sealed Portion is a rip off of the bible and Book of Mormon

Urantia makes me think of Scientology. I think it's nonsense for the most part.

Lost Books of Bible and Bible are what they are.

Book of Mormon- in comparison to the others, except maybe Health and Science which reads like a commentary...honestly blows them out of the water. So in conclusion, and this is being as unbelieving, non TBM as they come, but trying to be objective...

Either the Book is of God, or Joseph Smith was one of the most intelligent con artists that ever existed. Of course the Church has had years to 'clean up' the products to make it more readable.

As Simon Cowell says...I'm just being honest.

So it blows the others out of the water by being superficial enough to be easy to read?

Maybe you were conditioned to have the outcome you are posting.

I actually thought of that and it was a concern that I have too. Having read it before did it make it easier reading than the stuff I didn't before. So I agree that if I had say read the Quran from youth would my thoughts be different..quite possibly. It's completely subjective I admit.

<<Either the Book is of God, or Joseph Smith was one of the most intelligent con artists that ever existed.>>

There's a third option. I won't say it here. You'll have to figure it out on your own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 03:19PM by thingsithink.

I've read a lot of those works (more than the 5 chapters you read) and I'm not sure that I would agree with what you wrote. Maybe your goal wasn't to understand them but rather to test Moroni's promise, and I guess that is fine, but I'm not sure what you would get out of it.

I think you should read more out of these books. Even though I don't believe in God, I personally benefited from reading the Bhagavad Gita, the Qur'an and the Bible (including the Apocrypha). Take a closer look and I think you'll find more than what you are now claiming.

I never did read the Tao Te Ching. Sounds tough.

snb Wrote:
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> Even though I don't believe in God, I personally
> benefited from reading the Bhagavad Gita,

I've read the Gita a couple of times and I love it. Part philosophical and part story. It always makes me think.

Actually was thinking of reading this one more...the story was getting interesting when I got to my 5 chapters.

I know for some the dialogue format is a turn off. They like narration sprinkled with scripture, but some of The Gita's dialogue is very mentally stimulating.

"Krishna: “A Karma-yogi should fight while treating victory and defeat alike, gain and loss alike, pain and pleasure alike and fighting thus, he does not incur sin.” "
http://creative.sulekha.com/bhagavad-gita-a-conversation-between-sri-krishna-and-arjun_472416_blog

It is interesting to conceive of taking victory and defeat alike. I never read "scripture" like that before!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 06:21PM by Elder Berry.

I agree that I would probably get more. By randomly reading is hard to get the best versus the worst. I have thought of reading each entirely. Some run 2000 plus pages though so I am deciding if I have the patience or time.

Well, I'm not going to claim that I read all of the Gita, for example. It isn't ever a bad idea to skip some sections in these works. :)

AGREED

Some of the books on the list are translations of ancient works--written in a time, culture, and language very different from ours. They should be expected to be a little difficult to read or awkward or removed from our culture.

The Book of Mormon doesn't have any such handicap.

Tao Te Ching is not really meant to be read, but to be pondered. There are many translations, some better than others. The funniest one is the Dude de Ching written in the language of the "Dude" from the Big Lebowski and its actually one of the easiest to understand translation.

I find it beautiful and I'm an atheist. The key for me was to take a chapter a day (most can be read in a minute).

Joseph Smith? An INTELLIGENT con artist? You're kidding, right?

What are the great truths you found in the BoM then that are a sign of intelligence? Do you find plagiarism to be sign of great intelligence? Do find using the same filler and plots over and over to be a sign of great intelligence? Do you actually believe the tacky prophecy in the BoM that alludes to Joseph himself?

What makes it so wonderful that it could blow even a minnow out of the water? You denigrate any "competition" for Joseph's tome and then declare it the winner? What's so great about it?

That it's okay to kill for the Lord?

That it's okay to be racist for the Lord?

That it's okay to lie about your DNA for the Lord?

So much to choose from. Does it win perhaps because it is so easy to read, like even a kid can get it?

Myself, I will stick with Samuel Clemens assessment: Clorophorm in print and the miracle was that Joseph could stay awake while writing it.

I'm sorry but there is no controversy here. You need two strong sides to an argument for controversy to exist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 03:34PM by blueorchid.

There are some gaping flaws in your 'logic', but I would like to thank you for posting the funniest thing I have read online in the year 2015.

Don't worry, the year is young.

You are welcome.

You picked a handful of religious texts, read a few verses from each one, and picked a winner based on the one that gave you the best feeling inside?

What, if anything, does that prove?

My never Mormon Dad wouldn't agree with you. He read the Book of Mormon and his only comment was, "Violent little book, isn't it?"

Use this scripture…


God is Not Great. How religion poisons everything. By Christopher Hitchens

I've actually read parts of that but since Hitchens didn't call it scripture it didn't occur to me to use something like that.

The Tao Te Ching is not impossible to understand, it just goes against much of western thought, so its subtleties are rather evasive. A lot of it is based on observations of the natural world, with these observations applied to human interaction in society. Much of ‘Tao’ is an observing the Ying/Yang relationship of opposing forces, and applying that to human life. Neither ‘force’ is emphasized, rather it is their interaction that is observed and learned from.

For example:
The taller you build a tower, the more gravity acts on it to bring it down.
The more wealth you accumulate, the more robbers will plot to take it from you.
The bigger the dam, the greater the force of water builds behind it to break it.


This is why the Tao usually recommends the path of least resistance in regards to human affairs. It usually favours simplicity over magnificence. The whole taming of the ego thing.

You can observe this in your own neighbourhood. Go outside with your chest all puffed out and take your liberty with no regard for others, and you will meet with strong resistance. However, if you work away at things subtly, and with modesty, without drawing attention to yourself, you can actually do quite a lot of things with little or no resistance at all.

Mind you I worked with the Richard Wilhelm translation of the I Ching for many years, so the Tao Te Ching seemed obvious when I finally looked into it. I agree, its tenants would seem absurd to the average westerner, since we are taught that when you want something ….go out and get it with vigour. But force is met with force, so look out! And then there is our whole idolatry of wealth and luxurious possessions to consider ...yikes. I could see a westerner reading the Tao Te Ching and thinking WTF? Start with Wilhelm’s I Ching, instead. It is much simpler to get the idea from, although still probably only after quite a bit of application and then reflection. I've found it very useful for dealing with society, some of the tenets really seem to work. Not magic, just a good understanding of natural human behaviour and how peope react.

I am sure that made sense to no one …likely not the thing for a short board post.

Your list missed South American shamanism though, how about those guys? (Toltecs?)

torturednevermo Wrote:
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> The Tao Te Ching is not impossible to understand, it just goes against much of western thought, so its subtleties are rather evasive.

I agree. I was lucky enough to get a thorough introduction to Taoism in college during a course on Chinese philosophy. Interesting that you like Wilhelm -- I find him highly accurate but rather dry. I tend to like R.L. Wing's translations, as he has a good grasp of the philosophy, and retains the meaning of the original while making it accessible to Westerners. His "The I Ching Workbook" is sublime.

Not that I would pick any particular church or philosophy as being "true," but if forced to make a choice I would go with the Taoists because their philosophy is based on a close observation of nature.

Taoism asks people to reinterpret what they take for granted. For instance, which is the strongest, wind, water, or rock? Some might say rock, but over time, wind and water can wear down rock. So again, which is strongest? This is a lesson that even that which appears weak at first can succeed with persistence over time.

How does water in a rocky stream find its way? It does not resist the rocks in the stream, but instead goes around. This is a lesson in the natural flow of the Tao. In order to be in harmony with the Tao, one must adapt and work around the obstacles in one's path.

Thanks summer, I'm going to have to check out R.L. Wing's translations. Goodness knows, I've worn the spine out on my copy of Wilhelm. It's meaning does unfold like an onion!

You said:
>> Not that I would pick any particular church or philosophy as being "true," <<

I agree. I never take anything as absolute in my life. If I get something from a philosophy I can use, I use it. If something doesn't give me results, I toss it. I've investigated many (most?) of the worlds philosophies/religions out of curiosity, (including science, LOL).

I read a tibetan monks comment once that studying too many religions can make one insane ... yup, I've even been there too, haha.

I just like to look at a bit of everything to see if something from it can be useful, but I don't ever seem to become fixated on any one place. I get bored and move on.

However, Taoism is probably my most favourite out of any. That and some of the South American Toltec stuff. Funny that I never studied Mormonism ...but something tells me I will pass on it. Just a funny feeling I have (??).

You're right, Joseph Smith was an intelligent con artist, probably one of the finest in his day.

<<Either the Book is of God, or Joseph Smith was one of the most intelligent con artists that ever existed.>>

Sorry but I really can't even grasp how anyone could come to this conclusion. I agree that it's easier to read than those other works but I come at this from the same perspective as BH Roberts.

“In the first place there is a certain lack of perspective in the things the book relates as history that points quite clearly to an underdeveloped mind as their origin. The narrative proceeds in characteristic disregard of conditions necessary to its reasonableness, as if it were a tale told by a child, with utter disregard for consistency.”

- Studies of the Book of Mormon, by B.H. Roberts, p. 251

I spent most of my life (since about 12 yrs old when I tried reading it in earnest) struggling with the persistent nagging thought that the BOM was pure bunk. It's predictable plot line, one dimensional characters, ridiculous names, over the top battles, etc. Virtually every page screamed fraud to me and it drove me insane thinking that there was something wrong with me that I couldn't see the profound depth in it that everyone else was talking about. It wasn't until I was fully emotionally developed and checked in with myslef, as a middle-aged man, that I could come to grips with the truth of it.

As Simon Cowell (and now you) says...I'm just being honest.

I just finished reading, "The Disappearing Spoon" by Sam Keane.
While reading it, my bosom burned, and I had a very strong feeling that it was true.
I laughed a lot, too, and learned a lot about the periodic table.

This is my testimony, in the name of science literature, Amen.

p.s. while the BoM might be better than some other religious texts (with the understanding that "better" is entirely subjective), it's still awful literature, hard to read, and completely made-up. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2015 06:34PM by ificouldhietokolob.

I love that book. I read it because of a recommendation here.

The more interesting stories in the BOM (such as the Strippling Awrriors) were stolen from the Bible.

Is that a joke of some kind? (That i didn't get?)

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Mormon god's favorites all get killed during a horrific war in the BoM? Isn't that the basic plot?!

What the he11?! That wasn't written by someone who likes people! If you want to think it was meant to be inspirational, then it was written by either a sadist or a crazy person!

(As an aside, when I first heard about some stories from the BoM, I thought to myself, With gods like that who needs enemies?!)

Seriously, lmk if i missed something. ?

All religious scriptures are made up by someone. You're in effect, just choosing the best fiction writer or writers. My opinion of the BOM as good writing is identical to Mark Twain's. "It's chloroform in print."