My mom is making me go to church.

I'm an INTJ personality, which doesn't really fit with the mormon's beleif that you should blindly follow their every command.

I don't beleive in what they're telling me.

I'm not saying that I disagree with what they teach, I'm just saying that I don't beleive in it; I can't prove that it's right, but I also can't prove that it's wrong. So I'm not going to waste my time going to a church that could be all wrong.

I never got these magic feelings that testify to me that the church is true.

I tell all of this to my Mom, she starts crying, then keeps forcing me to go. Ugh.

It's really akward when I go to church, because it's very obvious that I don't beleive in what they're saying, so everyone is thinking, "If you don't beleive in it, why are you still comming?".

Mainly just posting on this forum to vent, and maybe find someone else with a similar experience and see how they delt with it.

Actually the Church is easily proven wrong.

As for you having to go to church, I would be completely honest with the Bishop. "I do not believe. I'm being forced to come here, against my will."

If he offers you a calling, just say, "No."

At least you can attend, but with your honesty and integrity intact. You don't need to make a big stink about it. Just calmly state your position and be honest.

It's in living a lie that your peace-of-mind is destroyed.

But then they make it miserable for you...

The glares, the gossip, etc.


The wanting to help me even after I've made up my mind.

Not to mention our bishop is probably the largest biggit on the face of the planet.

I would try to fly under the radar as much as you are able. If you are called upon in class, give the expected answer. You can state it as, "The church teaches that..." or "Mormon doctrine states...".

A lot of parents will still make you go. And being that you're a minor, you sort of have to. ,y wife and I stopped going a year ago when we found out it wasn't true.

The funny thing is, they try and convince you that you can't know its false. You can. You just have to break through the mental barrier and accept that possibility. Five minutes of research will tell you it's false.

It's a tough road though. My advice is to keep your beliefs to yourself, bide your time, and you're out of school, live the life you want. Go to college over a mission don't marry at the ripe old age of 21. Live a somewhat normal life.

More and more people are leaving the church every day. In time it won't be so strange and your family will learn to cope. But that won't happen right away. You will be guilted and shamed. But if dedicating your life to a system of beliefs that is provably, categorically false isn't an idea you relish, it's time to figure it out and quit sitting on the fence.

How old are you? You didn't say. If you are really young, you are in the same situation as millions of Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, baptists, etc.

I just turned 15. I was born into the church.

A nice age. You are thinking independently and critically. Never give that up, you have a wonderful life ahead of you. I wish I could help more, I really do. Unfortunately, at your age, the wishes of the parents trump almost everything.

When you are in an intolerable situation, it helps to do two things -- a) focus on whatever is positive in your life, and b) start planning for a better future.

Although you are presently chafing at the bit, it might help to remember that a lot is being provided for you -- food, shelter, heat, clothing, electronics, etc. One of the first things you will discover as an emancipated adult is that providing for yourself is no easy task. For instance, I was shocked to discover that a low-wage job would not necessarily provide me with the necessities of life, even living with roommates. Finding out that "the world does not owe me a living" was a major maturation point for me.

Planning at your age will involve investigating careers that will pay you a decent wage, along with the best route (education, training, apprenticeship) toward your goals. You might consider getting a part time job so that you can start building savings.

When you can pay your own way in life is when you can start living as you please. Often some temporary sacrifices are necessary to achieving your goals.

Good luck and do let us know how things progress. We love our young board members, and there are a number of people your age that post here.

How old are you? What is your escape plan for getting out from under Mom? Will she help you with college, but with strings attached?

Many of here have gone through exactly this situation. Sadly, her house, her rules, but there are lots of ways to negotiate your way.

Thanks for the advice guys.

GTG, church is starting.

killmenowqq, I hope you'll come back and give us updates on your struggles and let us in on what's being taught in class and sacrament meeting. If nothing else, this forum can help you survive the next few years under your parents' roof. Hang in there.

Until you're 18 or off at college.

It causes huge problems to dig in your heels if it makes your mother cry and demand this of you. Sometimes parents force kids to talk to the bishop weekly or give up their TV and computer privileges. I'd hate to think they might kick you out or refuse to help with your education over this.

I quit at age 16 and it wasn't worth it.

Better to drag your feet for now and do a minimal amount to avoid big trouble.

Your parents are probably reading the articles that say that youth with religious experiences avoid temptations that derail promising futures better. Or maybe they have just declared "that as for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord".

There are people around the world who attend churches regularly without believing all or any of what is taught there. Some do it simply because they want to have a good understanding of faith. Some do it because that is what their family does. Some do it because sometimes they hear something that helps them in some way. Some do it simply as a way to worship God (however they see Him).

When you graduate from high school you can get a job, move into your own apartment, and do whatever you like. Until then see your attendance as a sociology projec, or maybe simply as a way you can comfort your parents that you are well grounded. Or to have a chance to socialize with other teens in settings that don't include the extremes of youth (assuming your congregation gives you that). Spend your time in church while you are day dreaming in figuring out what you do believe and how you are going to live your life.

Your whole life will include doing things that you wouldn't do on your own. Your boss, your spouse, your children, you care for them will all result in your doing so. Consider your attendance as your service project for your parents.

You'll find that much of life is about making the best out of a bad situation. The great thing about this is that you have control of your mind. You can easily research the church and come to your own conclusions.

You're finding out now, not after you've been exploited and mind controlled for decades.

I'm a never-mo. I sympathize with your situation, but, as a parent, I can understand where your mom is coming from.

Our lives center around our children, and I'm certain she is doing what she feels is in your long-term interest. Only truly awful parents deliberately try to make their children miserable.

You can weather this through a combination of respect, honesty, and selective apathy.

"Mom, I am going to church with you with no complaints, not because I want to, but because it makes you happy. You already know I do not believe what is discussed, but I see that my attendance is important to you, and I will honor that."

When called upon to participate in discussions, answer every question "I don't know" or "I don't have an opinion." When called to perform a duty or attend an event, "No, thank you." No explanations, no excuses. Just blandness.

When called in for a discussion with an authority figure, "I'd rather not." If forced, refuse to answer questions, not in a hostile way, but in a way that is as disinterested and disengaged as possible. "I don't feel like sharing anything with you. I'd like to leave now. Please don't force me to stay in this room with you."

You're 15, so surely you've mastered passive-aggressiveness by now, right? A couple of months of this might do the trick.

Above all, don't get into a hot war with your mother.

I like this advice. It allows a way for people to be true to themselves while maintaining some balance in the family relationships.

That sounds like a reasonable plan. At the same time show that you are serious about school, help around the house and maybe once you are 16, look for a part time job and save a significant portion of it.

If you look like a responsible young person, your mom may go easier on you. And make a plan for the end of high school.

Insist on no mission and a non lds college. If that is a deal breaker then the military or a 2 year college from which you can transfer, may be a viable option and better than a dead end McJob.

Tonto's plan is excellent for anyone in your position.

Thank you, Tonto. You've put what I was trying to say much better.

I definitely agree with those who suggest that you try to put some sort of nest egg away for when you're ready to move out.

Here are some things to remember:

Your parents, especially your mother, buys into what they have taught her. She actually believes that somehow she failed if she has a kid who leaves the church. She will feel guilt and sadness because they have convinced her the family will somehow be disrupted in the CK. Be prepared some day in the future to emphasize to her she was a great parent because she taught you how to think on your own.

One big weapon the church has on the believers is holding the family hostage if they all don't play along.

Your personality type tends to be introspective and thoughtful. If you show signs of resistance to the church now, they will try even harder to make you do the mission and LDS school. Consider focusing on school and begin setting the groundwork to leave to attend school somewhere that is not LDS. At that point you can often just drift away from all the church nonsense.

Do some research in college catalogs to begin thinking about fields you think interest you. Focus on reading, study, sports, or whatever. Remember, no college gives a rats rear about seminary or Mormon stuff. Blow it off mentally.

This is the LDS plan:
-Teach by repetition to get the members fully invested in the religion.
-Send the young men out (now girls too often) into the world on a mission. The purpose is to provide a rite of passage into adulthood and investing you further. The mission cements in the commitment to the church and can week out the ones who decide it is BS.
-Get home from the mission and start breeding ASAP which locks you and spouse into dependency before you can truly become self sufficient educationally and financially.
-Isolate you by giving you so much busywork and encouraging you do most everything with other Mormons. This keeps you socially awkward in the world for your entire life.

We often see people like you come here. They have to decide if they want to be confrontational or play along. Only you know your family and can consider all the factors (impact on relationships and financial assistance, etc.).

As you learn the facts about the church, you will probably outgrow it. You can't unlearn what you know. It's hard to live a lie. Remember it is your life. You must plan your life. Select your friends wisely. Be smart. Plan and achieve.

Good luck and check in here if you have questions or need to vent.

Son, I've got kids at home that are 14 & 17, the youngest of 8 kids! We used to attend Catholic church regularly until 2009.
when the older ones grew up, started working or going to college, they all stopped going to church.
And it's OK! They're good people!
The youngest kids are lucky- we've attended A LOT of different denominations,(they've gone to YM/YW, we've gone to Ward events, too. 98% of their friends are LDS since we live in Utah)
They're learning to appreciate the diversity of beliefs and thoughts on God, and I have confidence they'll choose wisely for their future. (Although I'm quite certain it won't be LDS)

the advice given by other posters is solid. My I suggest a non Mormon friend? One who isn't objectionable to your parents! My kid's friends enjoy a break, without rocking the boat.
Good luck, kiddo! Keep us "posted"

I grew up in Texas, so Mormons made up 1% of the school. It was far easier to find compatible friends at school than at church.

I was born in the church and used to use the free agency card that my parents were forcing me to attend, yet I supposedly had free agency. The standard answer is: you can use your agency to come gladly or not, but you are coming. As soon as I was the legal age not to have to obey my parents, I stopped.

My elder brother and his two classmates found a quicker easier way out - they had fisticuffs with their sunday school teacher - twice. I don't recommend this course of action, however.

When you do come of legal age to stop obeying your parents try not to be too defiant or rebellious, because, if you have younger siblings your parents will want to protect them from you and your terrible example to them and have you out of the house as soon as possible and their conscience will be clear when they drop all responsibility for you.

Remember - they are still brainwashed but they are still your parents who cared for you, fed you, changed your diapers, gave you plasters on cuts, consoled you when you were small, etc. They just don't have the resources to prepare you for the real world.

And it never ends. My eighty-year-old TBM mother just sent a message to my brother telling him that I'm dangerous. I stopped believing when I was twelve. I am fifty-seven now and still she's trying to punish me. Beyond ridiculous, these people.

qq,

For perspective, I am an INTJ who was raised in another One True Church, not Mormonism, but similar in many respects. (I'm on this board because I have Mormon relatives.)

Listening to you brings back memories, bad ones. But first, let's review the portrait of an INTJ. Here are some selections from the book "Please Understand Me" (1984) page 180 and following:

"INTJs are the most self-confident of all the types... Found in about 1 percent of the general population... preferring that events and people serve some positive use. ...a word which captures the essence of INTJs is BUILDER -- a builder of systems and the applier of theoretical models."

"To INTJs, authority based on position, rank, title, or publication has absolutely no force. This type is not likely to succumb to the magic of slogans, watchwords, or shibboleths. If an idea or position makes sense to an INTJ, it will be adopted; if it doesn't, it won't, regardless of who took the position or generated the idea. ... authority per se does not impress the INTJ."

"...INTJs need only to have a vague, intuitive impression of the unexpressed logic of a system to continue surely on their way."

"The INTJs ... use their intuition to grasp coherence."

"INTJs are vulnerable in the emotional area and may make serious mistakes here."

Perhaps you can relate to those descriptions. I sure can.

It wasn't until I was in my thirties -- and out of the OTC -- that I fully grasped that I was a brilliant systemic thinker. (Don't mistake that for a bragging statement. It's how I was made; I had nothing to do with it.)

As a brilliant systemic thinker in my thirties and forties, I was building software systems for corporations around the world. I was VERY good at it, and not just in my own eyes. More than once I was the guy that was brought in to save someone else's failing project.

Even though I didn't know it at the time, looking back on my teen years I can see now that I was an emerging brilliant systemic thinker then. And I was using brilliant systemic thoughts to analyze the OTC. And my analysis was doing nothing but making me crazy and angry.

The INTJ mind insists on seeing the world, and its various parts and pieces, as systems. And the INTJ mind insists on finding the coherence in those systems. And the INTJ mind instinctively rejects authoritarian messages such as "because I said so" and its many variations.

Here's the problem: Mormonism (as well as the OTC I grew up in) is an incoherent, authoritarian system. For the INTJ, an incoherent system is the ultimate crazy-maker. An authoritarian system is the ultimate angry-maker. And an incoherent, authoritarian system is ... there are no words.

I feel for you kid, I really do. If there were easy solutions for you someone else would have posted them already. Maybe what I'm saying will give you better perspective on YOURSELF as one of the ingredients of the problem to be solved.

One last thought: The mistake I made back then was concluding that, since the OTC was the ultimate reality (so I had been told / indoctrinated) and since the OTC was incoherent, then it follows that reality is incoherent. Life is absurd. That was a bad road to take; don't do that.

Best to you,

JAR

Time is on YOUR side.
You will get more powerful with each passing month.

Keep your grades up and plan your escape for the day you turn 18

Can you find a way to go with her, but be busy doing something so you don't have to listen? Working with the little kids? Helping behind the scenes, somehow?

When you turn 16 you can find a weekend job!

Your words make me glad I didn't force my kids to go. They liked going to youth group during the week, but not Sunday mornings.

They both turned out very well, anyway.

and would no longer go to church. They still made me go of course. I had to wait until I left for university to be free from religion and I've never gone back. They made me go but I refused to participate. Bide your time and make your move when you can -- good luck.

i wouldn't make it any more of an issue with your parents, they'll make your life living hell if you don't conform. also, keep your non belief on the down low, the kids will forget it at some point if you act like you believe. i'm around the same age and i'm sorry you have to go through this, if you stick it out until the end then you can leave everything churchy behind when you move out without too much pain.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2015 04:01PM by secularhumanguy.

How old are you? Do you plan to go to college? If so, try to placate them. You can make your moral stance when you have your degree and a job.

I would put my foot down on a mission. Two years of misery is a high price to pay to keep parents happy, and they won't be pleased spending the money on you when you leave.

Depending on what you are dealing with (mom), go if you have to, use the time to catch up on school work. Read ahead, etc.
Use the time to ask the hard questions.