I have not posted these in years. This is a new one - just like all the old ones. A little variety would be nice.

"Yes, why the lies? After reading your false article on why you left the Church, I was honestly really curious. What gave you the inspiration to go against everything you knew? You may be questioning why I said "Why the lies?" Except you probably do know why. Because nearly every single piece of information that you have placed in that article contradicts actual facts. I would explain all of it, but there is just so much that it would take up too much time and space. I feel sorry for you in a way, because your rejection of the Gospel has earned you a place in Hell. But I also don't, because you're trying to pull other people away from the Gospel as well as yourself. Just because you were led away doesn't mean you have to make everyone else go through the same eternal pain and torment as you. Please, answer me one question: Where are you getting this false doctrine? I really would like to know because I'm just curious as to why you suddenly felt to determined to pull away. You article is based off of nothing besides your word. You say stuff like "there isn't any evidence for _____" when you have no evidence that there isn't evidence and also you have to evidence to counter it. I want to know where you are getting your information. You said in your article that you were committed to the gospel and had a testimony. It's just... I have a hard time believing this. Anyone who actually has a true testimony of the Gospel, such as myself and family, would have a much harder time to get pulled away from the Gospel than you. Please, I insist that you open your heart and mind back to the Gospel. If you truly commit yourself, unlike before, you will have a strong testimony of the Gospel. I bear my testimony that the Gospel is the true Word of God. I know it in my heart and my soul. My life is truly blessed because of the Gospel and I want you to have those blessings also. Knowledge of the Gospel can make or break your whole future. If you believe in it sincerely, it can bless you so much. If you don't, and openly reject it... Your life after death will be awful. It will be sad indeed. No one deserves that. You don't.

The best of wishes that you will truly see the light,
Joseph N



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2016 08:46AM by Eric K.

Eric, thanks for posting this. Just goes to remind us critical thinkers how real the cog dis is for these sheeple...

>Please, answer me one question: Where are you getting this false doctrine?

There are plenty of sources out there, but how about trying www.LDS.org first? You can read about Joseph's polygamy and polyandry; the ubiquitous racism and misogyny in the Morg; and the institutionalized hatred of LBTGQ. That should get you started toward a life of "seeing the light."

Don't you just want to wave your hand in front of the eyes of people like this to check and see if they are home? You simply cannot fix stupid.

It's as though the wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead...

hehe

I'll bring the marshmallows.

Eric K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What gave you the inspiration to
> go against everything you knew?

He does raise an interesting point. It takes courage to go against everything you knew.

This is one of my all time favorites:

"You say stuff like 'there isn't any evidence for _____' when you have no evidence that there isn't evidence and also you have to evidence to counter it."

This makes me laugh so hard. Classic Mormon, right there.

and . . .

"I insist you open your heart . . ." You can't make this stuff up. The arrogant/ignorant factor is at an all time high here.

Everybody needs a hobby.

Some folks compete in equestrian events. Others collect old postcards. Others hunt deer. Others knit cozies for teapots. Others attempt to shame those who think differently by using false reasoning. Others play bridge. Others take salsa lessons.

Of the above, I confess a former attraction to collecting postcards. At one time my collection including a nice selection of mid-20th century postcards from tourist sites: Ocean City, NJ; Fort Lauderdale, FL; the Grand Canyon; etc.

(As to your friend's concern "...when you have no evidence that there isn't evidence...", I challenge him to provide evidence that "God" is NOT a gigantic earthworm living in Pittsburgh near the confluence of the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers. I'm waiting...)

"I feel sorry for you in a way, because your rejection of the Gospel has earned you a place in Hell."

Why this type of sick statement makes any 'Christian/Mormon' feel better about themselves or their religion, is amazing to me.

I think it gives them a feeling of their 'superiority' no matter how short they fall of living the 'gospel' and all the commandments.

Pride goeth before the fall or 'realization of the truth' in their cases.

They certainly have a problem with the live-let live idea.

I'd tell this one that he/she needs to mind his/her own business, so I can mind mine.

I especially love when there's a reference to "you are going to hell" LOL because it's clearly something that gives the Mo (or any other type of believer) great pleasure. Well that's not very Christlike, is it? Shows their true colors.

'Please, I insist you open your heart and mind to the gospel.'

Or else we're sending Porter Rockwell for FHE. 2 + 2 = 5...

"I would explain all of it, but..."

There is always the "but."

Joseph uses the word "Gospel" as if it's copyrighted by the Mormon church. If the church could put a copyright on it, I'm sure it would.

I love how they assume since you left you couldn't have truly ever believed. My response is you're right! I always give 10% or more of my money to institutions I always thought were fraudulent! Of course I got up for seminary, YW meetings/ camp , and every Sunday for something I never believed in! That just makes so much sense!

you don't have any evidence that there isn't any evidence ?

besides logical fallacy, it's kindergarten theology.

to themselves and then to condemn, judge, and dehumanize the source second.

"You said in your article that you were committed to the gospel and had a testimony. It's just... I have a hard time believing this. Anyone who actually has a true testimony of the Gospel, such as myself and family, would have a much harder time to get pulled away from the Gospel than you."


Sadly, this could have been me. I could have written this. I could have written the entire letter when I was TBM.

"Please, I insist that you open your heart..."

Hey, mormon: you don't get to insist I (or Eric or anyone else) do anything. Got it? Good.

There might have been a time, a very long time ago, that I would have written such a letter. Though doing so now would be impossible. I remember that when I see things like this: there's hope for even this TBM letter-writer. :)

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Please, I insist that you open your heart..."

"Insist"? How about "No"? Maybe "implore" was the word the author was looking for?

Good call, ificouldhietokolob. Cheers. -edzachery

It's funny that the letter is written supposedly to you and about you, but it's really all about them. It's more about trying to bolster their own faith than any real concern about you.

"No one deserves [hell/eternal torment]."

I thought the whole point was that we all deserve it and are supposedly saved from it. I wonder why this guy thinks anyone goes to hell, then.

Is it just me but does "The best of wishes" AND "has earned you a place in Hell" seem inconsistent?

Mormonism is HELL.

They really get worked up don't they. Chill Mormons. Geez. We can't help that you belong to a POS church.

I sometimes get such letters in response to my website. I usually respond with something like the following:

=========
I get a lot of e-mail from Mormons saying more or less what you have said to me. I respond with this challenge, which I also make to you.

I suggest that you point out to me some SPECIFIC factual statement I made on my website, and you show me with counterfacts that I'm wrong. Something major. Pick one thing (to keep things from getting too big) that I say in my articles about Mormonism which - if correct - would mean that Mormonism was not what it claims to be, and prove to me that I'm wrong. Not just an "explanation" (like, "we'll know the answer to that when we get to heaven" or "you must simply have faith that it's true" or "God is testing you"), but real facts. And something that - given all the facts - there is only one possible conclusion that can be reached.

I assure you that I am sincere in making this request. I am not a dishonest person. I respect the truth and I hate a lie. If I have said anything about Mormonism that is not true, then I have done so by mistake, not by intention, and I would be grateful for correction. I have, on several occasions, made such corrections when my errors were pointed out to me by Mormons such as yourself. (None of them were anything really major, however).

I find, however, that rarely do Mormons accept my challenge, even though I think it is a reasonable one.

" I would explain all of it, but there is just so much that it would take up too much time and space. "

In other words, "I have no facts to backup my FEELINGS".
What a twat.

It's a very well put together rebuttal on your 'why you left the church' article.

................. for a juvenile child...........to have written( though unfortunately not).

It's a worry that Mormon adults actually do reason like this.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2016 03:29PM by Zeezromp.

1. Why was this TBM reading Eric's article in the first place? Could it be that he/she was already having doubts? What would prompt a (supposedly) TBM to go against his prophet and read stuff online when they've been told not to?

2. Denial, Denial, Denial. Something Eric might have said pushed this TBM back into denial while he was reading. It's way easier to be in denial than to admit the truth.

3. Why do TBMs think that people who leave the church take the easy road out? There are stories upon stories of how difficult rejecting mormonism is. The TBM is revealing the superficial nature of mormonism. What he sees is that it SO EASY to leave because now you don't have to follow the WoW, or wear the underwear, or pay the tithing. None of them can think deeper than what they see on the outside.

4. As someone else stated before, "you're going to hell" is so unchristlike. TBMs claim to be christians but time and again their actions speak louder than their words. I'm not a christian, but I get really irritated by people who profess to be christian, but then act all self righteously superior to everyone else.

As was also said before, there is hope for this TBM. The fact that he's reading Eric's work is a real start.

applesauce

I wonder what else this person has read. I wonder if he has moved on to other exmo sites to try and insist someone else do what he tells them to do.

If so, he will start to see a theme. I get the impression he has yet to gather his courage to actually find out if what exmos say are based in fact and truth. Maybe he'll get annoyed just enough to read himself out of mormonism. If he does, I hope he comes back and tells us.

"...earned you a place in Hell"?

Excellent. Please say hello from me to Johnny Cochran and the dancing Starbucks cups!

:-)

Obviously, this person has deeper issues than someone leaving the church. I feel sorry for his wife and kids if he has any. What hell on earth they must be in right now.

"your rejection of the Gospel has earned you a place in Hell."

If the likes of Joseph Smith are going to heaven, I'd rather spend eternity in hell.

The letter writer says he would explain it, but there isn't enough time. He did have the time to write a paragraph long screed though, didn't he?

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The letter writer says he would explain it, but
> there isn't enough time. He did have the time to
> write a paragraph long screed though, didn't he?


"I could point out where you are wrong. I could write pages of
why you are wrong, but I'll not do that--I'll rather let you go
to hell and suffer for eternity because, hey, I have the love of
Christ in my heart."

Thanks Baura and others for the funny responses.

I usually delete these emails. Sometimes I do reply with just these words if it is a particularly vitriolic email: "You deserve to be a Mormon."

Thank you for sharing this, Eric. Just as with some of the 'fan mail' that Steve Benson has shared, I admire the fact that neither of you lashes out at the authors and sends an equally hateful response. I know that I would be very tempted to do so.

I really admire the response that Richard Pakham shared After spending much time reading on his most excellent site, I can't begin to imagine the amount of hateful feedback he receives.

If one cannot leave the Mormon church without being damned to hell for non-belief, he is certainly describing a cult in my book!

The evidence to counter it is actually very persuasive, but as pointed out, he's not paying attention.

I doubt very much that the same Abrahamic God who gave us Judaism, Islam, and then Christianity, condemns anyone for exercising their brain muscles by thinking for themselves. In Mormonism that is forboden. What a crackpot.

My guess guys like him would rather attack you personally because they cannot attack your ideas, or your message.

He's a troll, for want of a better word.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2016 08:42AM by Amyjo.

Sigh.

That, folks, is your brain on Mormonism. It's predictable. They only know a few reflexive phrases.

Now he can rest well knowing he stood up for Jesus and the church and has accumulated more Celestial Brownie Points.

I do think when we read one of these periodically, it reminds us of how far we have come and how grateful we are that we are not parroting Mormon memes.

Thanks for the reminder!

".... earned you a place in hell."

This way of thinking by TBMs was always a big shelf item for me. I'm a responsible adult and parent, college graduate, do my best to treat others with respect, etc., etc., but because I don't believe in Mormonism I'm going to hell??? WTF?! Mormons are the most hateful, self-righteous people I've ever met....but we are the ones going to hell...

The person making the response has learned his lesson well from his teacher, Mormonism. He's learned to take the easy, irresponsible route by not engaging in an honest give and take conversation, choosing rather to dish out slander, name calling, threats of hell, and pompous arrogance and supposed authority just like the MormonCult. Ole Sleazy Joey set the example for all of these behaviors and leaders from his time to the present have used them continually.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2016 02:07AM by presleynfactsrock.

I'm so sorry Joseph, but the answer we were looking for is, "I know the church is true." But you'll be leaving today with some lovely parting gifts including a lifetime supply of green jello and white bread, as well as the home version of our game!

No time or place? Hell, this is the place and this is the (only) time [you'll ever have to live, and prove your stupid points, to (for) yourself, much less others/ the public].

This is the problem with morons... (thinking they have no time) - TSCC takes ALL the members TIME, SPACE & $.

Joseph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would explain
> all of it, but there is just so much that it would
> take up too much time and space. I feel sorry for
> you in a way, because your rejection of the Gospel
> has earned you a place in Hell.

If The Gospel is so simple why not? If Moroni's promise is so powerful what's the problem in bearing just your testimony instead of a tirade?

"You deserve to be a Mormon." LOL I like that.

When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I'm sure I sounded just like this. Can we consider that this guy may be writing because he is truly concerned and really doesn't want to see people going to hell? That would have been my motive.

To me, he seems to very sincerely believe the lies that non-Mormons know Mormonism is true but are just rejecting it. For these people, their feeling that Mormonism is true are SO STRONG that they can't imagine others don't see it.

But to him I would like to say that there are people in every religion willing to die for their beliefs. Can you give me anything other than feelings /beliefs to work with?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2016 07:40AM by KiNeverMo.

I will give him this: He read enough to know that such a post on the board would be removed. I read him as insecure in his faith, asking The Google a question, finding RfM, and scaring the crap out of himself for having given in to "temptation."

His lashing out at you reads like a four year-old terror tamtrum. The Google led him astray, and The Adversary must be battled. The problem for him (and others) is that his "adversary" is between his ears. You are the next best thing.

I would imagine that these types of letters do not vary that much. It's symptomatic of the same illness. What's really amazing is that the vitriol is directed at you personally, as if you could personally compel the authors of all the writings to live a certain way, make certain choices and write as they do. All that power, Eric.

Can I have my three wishes now? Or at least my car keys? ;)

1. Exmormons like to rip on the Brethren with claims that they are not transparent/truthful. Well all a member has to do is produce the correct links to the church's detailed financial/statistical reports up at lds.org to show how the most truthful church ever the LDS church is.

2. The actual existence of millions of literal descendants of the great Hebrew prophet Lehi should be solid proof of the church's truthfulness. Just do their DNA tests and if they show Hebrew markers then the exmos are proven wrong.