Hello. I posted a few weeks ago how I was investigating the church, wanted to convert, but then started having second doubts and found this forum and decided it wasn't for me for a variety of reasons. However, I'm a lonely, eighteen year old girl, and when they invite me to dances and for meals and treat me like a friend aka 'love bombing' me, it's hard for me to stay away from them and I end up going to church with them again and feeling like I should convert.

They want to baptize me at the end of the month, both the sister missionaries on mormon.org and the elders at home who have been teaching me. The latter are coming over for dinner on Wednesday and as far as they know, I'm still going to be baptized. I don't want to tell them I've changed my mind when they come over for dinner, and I don't want to tell them at Institute on Thursday, which I have to go to because I left my coat in one of the girls' cars so I need to pick it up.

Then there's the issue of them messaging me asking me why I'm not in church which they do sometimes out of friendliness/worry but I don't want to have to say 'because the church isn't for me' because I'm a chronic people pleaser and I don't want to upset anyone.

TL DR I need to know how I can let them down easy. The sister missionaries in Utah who call me a lot, the elders, and the girls at church who have more or less taken me under their wing.

Print off a copy of the CES Letter. Show it to them and tell them that until the questions are answered, you can't possibly join. If you still want their friendship, tell them. If they are still willing to be your friend, great. If not, then they were never your friend in the first place. Good luck.

Try not to be concerned about 'hurting their feelings.' Their concern and love are mostly fake - it's part of their sales technique. As salespeople, they are used to people telling them no.

Accept their invitations, if you like. But be firm that their church is not for you. You'll soon see how much of their interest was genuine, and how much was merely a part of their routine.

Their friendship is fake. You want proof? Pay attention to how they start treating you when you tell them you're not getting baptized.

I think I will break the news to them on Friday over a lengthy text. I couldn't do it in real life. But thank you, everyone. I am trying to stand my ground, but it's so hard.

what is it they were "teaching" you ?

Just their basic churchy stuff; the plan of salvation, prophets, etc

It's a long shot, but what the heck...

visit http://preparetoserve.com/missionary-blog-index/ and see if either of your Elders is listed. If not, just Google their full names, with Elder in front of it, i.e, Elder Goose Berry, to see if you can find their blogs. If the sister missionaries have unusual last names, try doing the same with them, i.e., Sister Moose...

You might find some nuggets to fuel some righteous indignation.

And of course, there's always the outstanding act of telling them that you went to (list of ex-mo/post-mo sites) and learned about al the things THEY were not telling you! When they ask, "What on earth do you mean?!", have a 3X5 index card with all the site URLs neatly written, hand it to them and suggest that when they've converted the people on the sites, to come back for you.

They are totally conditioned so that NOTHING you say to them will impress them; they will simply conclude that somehow Satan led you away from the truth. You cannot have the last word with mormon missionaries; they always have the last word, only no one ever hears them, we just read about it in their blogs.

I've checked out their blogs, didn't find anything particularly shocking, most of it was just 'hey mom!! I'm having an awesome time!!! met so many awesome people!!'

*snort*

Jesus.
You are 18, get the hell away from those cultists or you will be sorry forever.

Just because Mormons took you to a few get togethers does not mean you owe them getting baptized.
No more than you owe free sex to a guy who buys you a hamburger.

They are rolling over you, don't you get it?

If you are not good with confrontations you'd better HIDE from them.
Don't open your door to unannounced visitors,and don't answer your phone or block them from contacting you by any electronic means.

Practise saying NO forcefully, but mostly avoid all Mormons and other people who want something from you.

I know all of that, but sometimes it's hard for me because I hardly have any friends these days, and they are offering me friendship, even though it's conditional.
But thank you. I will try.

other denominations in your area have young adult groups where you can meet people. I'm not pushing church by any means, not being a churchgoer myself. But there are other churches that won't stalk you for the rest of your life if you stop attending the way the Mormon church does. Many, if not most denominations, are fine if you visit to "try it on for size."

Our local community college offers non-credit courses twice a year as part of Continuing Adult Education. The tuition is dirt cheap. This is another way to meet people.

Conditional friendship is not real. If someone is your friend only if you do their will, they will drop you like a bad habit the first time you "disobey" them.

Find other places where unattached single people meet and go there. Classes, book discussion, volunteer work (humane society for example).

Jeez,
All that money I've wasted on hamburgers.
If only Glo was here to warn me 20 years ago.:)

As a former missionary I can confirm that you're really nothing more than a number to these guys.

That's not meant to sound insensitive or anything, it's just how missionaries think of people they convert.

Once you realize that it's a lot easier to see that your life is worth more than making a couple of guys a bit teary eyed.

It's good that you plan to break it off with them, but realize that they won't go down without a fight.

They invested time and effort into you, and they won't simply walk away from that.

You can send them a text, but they will try to contact you to talk to you in real life.

You can bring up this issue or that issue, it doesn't matter. Those issues will just go in one of their ears, and out the other.

They'll just sit there and bear their testimony until the cows come home.

You just have to stand your ground.

I was an investigator for two years here in the UK.

I attended every week and was what they thought (and me too at first) a dry Mormon. Fending off the baptism attempts was difficult and at times stressful. However they did get used to it after a year of attending and instead I was seemingly allowed to take my time and wasn't pressured much afterwards.

It was hard to leave because of the association and social aspects of being with them regularly. However the evidence was so overwhelming that it's not what it claims to be and that the friendships are basically 'false', though they maybe don't realise it as they are all taught to give attention and love as part of the conditioning process. They do call it friendshipping ( and for the purpose only for recruitment and staying active soon after baptism).

I did notice investigators being love bombed and after they got baptised I noticed how they were being slowly dropped by missionaries and left to the ward members to take over.

Sometimes the ward members didn't like 'slackers' and then hinted that they should now pull their own weight, pay up and do as they are told.

It can be difficult to keep saying no, but many people I saw get baptised couldn't say no and were pressured. They soon went inactive and would hide away. But once baptised they are sought after just the same.

I found that asking missionaries about the hat and stone, the polygamous child brides, false book of Abraham translation, False book of Mormon history and many other nonsenses helped them realise I wasn't interested much anymore.


PS And missionaries bearing testimony after everything they couldn't answer became a nuisance and I would interrupt their testimony bearing and let it be known that it's just irrelevant drivvle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2015 04:25PM by Zeezromp.

I wouldn't get so worked up about it as some of these guys
do. I took lessons with the missionarieries purely to introduce them at first to the notion that all religion is hrseshit and then after a week of lessons to expose them, on the off chance they didn't already know,to the fact that Joseph Smith was a transparent fraud.
I spent three months with them dropping hate bombs (or truths as we like to call them) in response to their Bullshit. but even I grew attached to them and found it hard to stop.

You don't need counselling it's purely a question of finding the right moment to say farewell. Any decent person with a heart woiuld find that difficult. I know I did and I think Dawkins is a wimp.

Within a month or two, the Elder who has been there the longest will be transferred out. They will bring in a new Elder to replace him. He probably wants you dunked before he leaves you. You will likely never see him again.

A month or two later, the other elder will also be transferred out, leaving only the first replacement and new replacement.

If you want to wait until he transfers, then you can only let one of them down. The new missionary won't have any attachment to you unless you build one up.

I would put them off and slow down the lessons. You can drop them when they leave. Trust me, you will not be the first person to dump them.

If you really want to be Mormon, just be passive-aggressive. Make commitments that you have no intention of keeping. Make appointments for when you are not home. It's cruel, but Mormons do that to each other all the time.

The bottom line is: don't get baptized for the Elders. They will be out of your life soon whether you want them to or not.

Hi erisophia. I answered you in your original thread a few weeks back. I remember your situation. All I can add is that, no matter how lonely you may be, and how strong your desire for friendship is, you simply must say no to their requests to hang out socially with them. For a people pleaser, this is deadly. You go, and then come away sucked back into a bunch of commitments …pretty soon you are ready to get baptized again. See the pattern? You simply must refuse their offers to do things, even if you are lonely. The morgue is no place for you.

Did you ever see pirates of the Caribbean?

“I am disinclined to acquiesce to your request!”

You simply must say no to their social invites. Don’t go near them, that’s how they get you.

So what are you doing with your life other than being fodder for the missionaries? Are you in school? If you are in college, there are a million and one activities on most college campuses. Join a few and you'll find tons of like-minded people.

If not in school, what do you like to do? Join a dance class, a gym, a book club, take an evening class at a community college. Find some ways to connect to other people.

Once you convert, the missionaries will move on to the next victim.

Call up the girl who has your coat and pick it up some other time. Then tell them all you aren't interested, are converting to Wicca, and don't answer their texts.

I love you guys so much. Thank you for all of this. A lot of you have been stern but you've said stuff I needed to read.
I've sent them a text and tried to be stern with them. I'll meet the girl with my coat outside the chapel on Thursday and then leave, I think.

I had a similar experience a few years back, but with just one person and it can be very difficult to say no! I can't think of anything that hasn't been said already but best of luck! Just remember that you make your own decisions and don't feel intimidated by them. I hope it goes well! And yeah, other church groups/community organizations are great ways to meet people that won't try and force you to do anything you don't want.

You are doing well to understand that your loneliness has made you vulnerable to the missionaries. They are actually looking for people like you, people who have to fill some kind of void or have suffered a loss.

You say you are a people pleaser. Please practice not being that, because the people who are worth pleasing are the ones who want the best for you, by a reasonable standard. At some point you have to stop being a people pleaser and be a self-respecter. If you can't get over being a people pleaser believe me, you will get used.

Other churches/organizations will offer you community without demanding your money and your time. And you can meet nice people by volunteering someplace. Maybe an animal shelter or the local library. If you volunteer to take a companion dog to visit the elderly in nursing homes I promise you they will love you and you'll have wonderful experiences.

Think of it this way. The Mormons are lions. You are an antelope. Antelopes that are lion-pleasers don't end well.

You were probably advised from your first post that the longer it took to say "no" to them, the harder it would become, and it sounds like that's the case now. At some point you'll have to tell them "no" *and mean it*, otherwise they will hunt you (simply hiding won't help) until you are too tired to run any more. You can guess what happens next.

You can't avoid disappointing them without hurting yourself. Sorry, but that's a fact. It would have been easier before, but it will be even more difficult if you continue to wait. It might even be good practice for later in your life; you'll need to be able to say "no" to many others down the road.

Don't wait any longer. Don't be a lion-pleaser.

Speaking as an ex RM who has been around missionaries his entire life... as soon as they move on from the area and go home, they are gonna forget about you. You are a blip in their mission. It's sad and terrible and emotionally manipulative. It's not their fault, it's the culture of the church. Missionaries go home and tend to forget the vast majority of the people they taught, only remembering those they baptized in order to prove to themselves and others that they did not waste their time.

The mormon church is a caustic place like that. They get caught up in the hysteria of seeing someone join... then eventually you are just another one of them. Friends for awhile... then people start getting married, moving off from the singles ward and the institute and everyone forgets about each other.

Some friendship.

Ah! That was painful to read just now, but I can't deny it. I did forget everyone, and the only ones I didn't were the proof-cases that I wasnt a failure.

Painfully accurate insight.

Like you, I had my doubts quite early on prior to Baptism, but I was still trying to be 'nice' and not let anyone down. They were ecstatic when I joined, than my husband did. It became SO obvious soon after that my acquiescence and kind nature were just perfect for one thing: to be USED. Believe me when I say to you, they do NOT care. Repeat after me: "They do not care". Most religions find the vulnerable and weak (not saying you are either) and prey upon them. I don't know how much you've read here, but there is a large body of information as to why the LDS church is a big fake, sham and I believe they are dangerous. They had us for 12 long years, but it will never happen again. Just a few highlights:

* Joseph Smith was a pedophile and a liar. Were you ever told by the missionaries that the "divine" method of translating the Book of Mormon was by throwing stones in the bottom of a hat?! Or that Joseph "married" young, pre-pubescent women? Didn't think so!

* Tithing is not used for the high and noble reasons they say it is. It's a fraud, too.

* The brethren and sisters who "care" for you will, in a flash so fast you'll nearly miss it, be the very same ones who will pretend you don't exist and shun you when you are no longer on their radar. Just say no.

*You are a young, modern woman. Does it bother you at all that the church is run by predominantly elderly men? It did for me. That's only the tip of the iceberg. They say that women are "equals". Bah! Women are revered for having children, speaking in namby pamby baby voices, kowtowing to the 'Priesthood' (who incidentally are always better than the women), and the women are the workhorses being used and abused. A big moment for me was when I made the comment to my husband that "Hell! I'm doing things in this church for complete strangers that I wouldn't even do my my loved ones!" It made me realize how muddled my thinking had become.

* It's all based on a lie, and was founded on the lies of one Joseph Smith. I could go on, but it would take me forever.

Another thing; do you have any Mormons in your family? We didn't, and I most assuredly am telling you the truth that if you aren't born into the covenant, you will FOREVER be second class and second rate. Converts typically are excluded from a real relationship of respect and are typically thought of as not 'quite up to snuff'.

I honestly beg you- sever ties, and sever them now! Make a clean break. They will not care and you will save yourself from years of misery, doubt, second guessing that you are as devout as you should be, and oh yeah...10% tithing that goes to bogus causes. I understand loneliness. Take a class, do something positive- write a letter to a lonely serviceman or woman, volunteer at an animal shelter, anything rather than continue with fake, "assigned" friends.

Don't hesitate to e mail me if you like. I'd hate to see you suffer like I did. The church is 100% false and you own them nothing. Nothing.

Good point about the leadership. Tell them you'll get baptized just as soon as you see at least one woman in the quorum of the 12.

There's a psychologist who has spent a lifetime studying exactly your problem and how to fix it. See http://nathanielbranden.com/

We need a "like" button.

Practice saying no in front of a mirror if you don't have some neighbor or friend, to play a live role discussion.

It's no one's business why you don't go to their church.

Please, please, please work up the power from within to say, "I've decided not to join or go to your church."

They'll ask why and you only need to say, "I think it isn't what I need or want, but thank you. Do please respect my decision and my privacy. I have to go now. Goodbye."

Please spend some time reading books about and/ or going to a class or a therapist about your people pleasing instincts.

You aren't to blame for them. Every kid (almost) wants to please the adults in their lives and then transfers this desire to their group of friends in high school. (Children who don't people please at all are usu. what everyone calls the difficult, or spirited child)

But now you have reached adulthood and need to realize that if you aren't the boss of your life, someone else will be. You will do their goals and ideas until one day it hits you that you aren't anywhere you really want to be.

My parents joined the church when i was 7, so i grew up in it, hearing (and believing) that i should always accept any calling because it comes directly from god, and that bishops are god's mouthpiece on earth. This seemed fine to me, until i had my own family and these men were telling me what to do and when. When i said no (finally) to a calling i couldn't do b/c i didn't have a car- dh had it at work that night- nor did i have money for a babysitter, it was ME who was the bad girl, not them for wanting to make me do this job. By this time i had, thru long, hard experience, discovered that once i said yes to the call, i'd be left to figure out the details myself. Including how i'd get there. When i explained why i said no, i was not told that this man would come weekly and take me to the church nor that he or his wife would be thrilled to babysit my child that night. Nope, his job ended if i said yes.

Oh, and i spent many years very lonely at church, with very few real friends. You know, people who talk to you after they're not your visiting teacher anymore, or when they're not working with you on a particular church job.

It was sad, seeing all the children get married and NOT getting wedding invitations. Obviously we weren't that important to any of them.

Join toastmasters in your city or a volunteer group of a cause you like. If you do a class like toastmasters you will find people who are working to improve themselves also. If you join a volunteer organization you will be doing something positive and of value with your time and have the opportunity to find friends.

So I know a lot of you are anti-religion, and I respect that, but before investigating their church I did have an interest in Wicca & Christopaganism. I do believe in some sort of Divine, even if not in any sort of organized sense.

Without going too much in to my pre-mormon beliefs, I worshipped the divine father (Yahweh) & the divine mother (Sophia) as equals that had many aspects, and one of my main patron goddesses was Athena, the goddess of wisdom and justice, and to me she represented the strength I've always wanted to have. And as I read through this I can feel her calling to me. (Again, I know a lot of you hate religion, so I hope that doesn't upset you).

I am remembering now how much I miss that belief system and how much I loved it because as a feminist and a free-thinker it satisfied my want to have a connection with a divine being without being dogmatic. So I think I'm gonna try to find some Pagan circles around me.

Again, thank you.

Hi, erisofia!

I so understand your desire to have people to socialize with, but missionaries aren't offering friendship with no strings attached. They're called missionaries for a reason; they want to convert you. They see you not as an individual but as a target.

And all Mormons consider themselves missionaries.

That's why so many here are telling you that you need to find friendship elsewhere. That could be at work, at school, at another church (one that isn't cult-like), at the gym, at any group you join that shares your interests. You'd be so much better off finding friendship in any of these ways. And you could still be you!

This is what LDS has to offer you, in real life:
*demand for 10% of your income for the rest of your life
*sucking up every ounce of your energy and all your free time
*telling you what you can and can't wear, eat and drink
*silly underwear
*insisting that you marry whether you want to or not
*demanding you have lots of children (so the church can grow) without regard for your health, finances or desires
*only the career of homemaker will be considered honorable, regardless of your desires and abilities, or the needs of your family
*isolating you from non-Mormon family and friends, and the rest of the world
*most importantly, they will tell you what you can and can't believe

Please believe me, you can do better.

I would treat Mormon missionaries the way I'd treat anyone who was stalking me (which is what they are doing). AVOID THEM.