Not so sure they lied. They were in some cases unaware of the exent of the number or didn't care and were pushing the god works in ways we can't understand right now line. Actually you did lie when you told them you ere there to learn about the church, unless you meant learn about what the church teaches missionaries. Not that I object to that.
I didn't lie. I was there to learn about how the church was training their official representatives to answer the difficult questions the church faces in this day and age, with all the information available on the internet and various scholarly books on the subject. This was before the church released it's latest admission about Joseph's indefensible sex life. I'd love to go back now with that paper in hand and really press them on whether or not they think wife swapping and child rape are wrong or only under certain circumstances, that don't involve admitting the guy whose praises you sing is a GD Manwhore!
Do tell me omniscient one, what's inside of a black hole? What is dark matter? What is dark energy? What is this "Great Attractor" we're heading towards at 14 million mph? If you don't know the answer to any of the questions above, how can you possibly say that God doesn't exist, when you don't have the foggiest idea about the vast majority of what does exist, nor do you have any idea about the nature of the most powerful things in our galaxy and universe. I think the word, "God" is one of the many names for the vast mystery that is the universe we inhabit, inexplicably. There are other words that are synonymous with it, like Tao, Logos and Genius, which I prefer to the word 'God', but they're all just inadequate symbols we use to communicate.
What is interesting to me is that you are trying to turn this around and focus on me. You want me to try and answer all of these questions you have. Yet, at the same time, I suspect that you know very little to nothing about any of these things yourself.
That is fine. You don't have to know about this stuff. What I find to be illogical is that you are equating the existence of a god with the existence of mystery or the mere fact that we don't know everything. That isn't a logical stance.
Either way, blah blah blah, I'm sure you can go on for threads about your belief in mystery, but none of that matters and I am not interested in your pseudo-intellectual approach to this topic. I was specifically speaking about the existence of the Christian style god that these women think told Joseph Smith that he could have sex with other women. If that wasn't clear then please accept my apologies.
Right, obviously the God of Joseph's Myth is about as real as Santa Claus, but Even the most ardent atheists like Richard Dawkins can't say with 100% that God doesn't exist. Obviously Gid exists as a concept in people's minds, at least. God exists as a word in the English language which we use to communicate an idea of an omniscient omnipotent benevolent creator. Otherwise we wouldn't emblazon "In God We Trust" across all of our dollars and cents. The big fat lie is that God EVER commanded anybody to claim another mans wife as his own. That God who did would make the God of the Bible a liar, since He gave Commanded us to not covet other men's wives and to not commit adultery. As far as the questions I posed, yeah nobody knows the answers to those questions, which is my point, the universe is a vast mystery, meaning we can't rule out much.
They certainly hadn't told the missionaries I met in England about the essay being put up on their own lds.org website. About one month before the essays release I mentioned that the promotion video they should me portraying JS as the perfect husband was bloody hypocritical and two of the three sisters flat out denied JS's polygamy and the adultery. I didn't know about the essays until my final lesson with two of them before their return to the U.S. and I didn't have the heart to mention it, they were great girls and I just wanted to behave on their last week in England, lousy timing. However the topic came up again in December with one of the missionaries who had been on her mission a year and another missionary fresh out of Provo mtc. the new missionary confirmed the essays exitance to the older missionary (with a gentle nod I wasn't supposed to have seen). so they may be arming them with the info now but I don't think they had been up until last year. I think since the dawn of the Internet sending all these enthusiastic young people on a mission without exposing them to what they, the church, know to be true is a cruel.Particularl having told them all their young lives that tha anti mormon stuff is the work of satan. look forward to seeing your post-essay video Korihor.
Missionaries are not schooled in LDS theology. They are salespeople not trained in deep doctrine or history. They want to put a positive spin on things, but they honestly have no clue what you are talking about.
When something sounds horrendous to cult recruits they will instinctively deny it, after all how can such ugly and atrocious things happen in our cult, we are the truth, right? Those things are anti lies aren't they?
Then when it starts to seem plausible and evidence presented that horrendous things were in fact seemingly committed by their cult founders they will say 'Well God commanded it', 'It's hard for us to understand'.
When they get really upset and too upset to even bare testimony they will say 'go away or I'll call security!!' lol
I heard all those lame excuses when I tried to ask missionaries about what I had read on the Internet. The Bishop of the ward didn't even know himself and would ask 'Where did you get that from"?
"When they get really upset and too upset to even bare testimony they will say 'go away or I'll call security!!' lol"
They didn't threaten to call security because they are in a cult. They did it because the OP was talking about sharing her with her husband. It was vulgar and crossed the line. I would have ended the conversation and called security or the police too.
Okay, so, as long as he doesn't directly ask her to have sex with him then it is okay, right? I mean, sexual harassment is okay, and making people uncomfortable by talking about them having sex with multiple people is okay, as long as they aren't Joseph Smith, right?
If the evidence for sexual harassment is all there on the video I suggest you do the decent thing and report it to the relevant authority. Goodluck you will need it.
The guy just asked the missionary if she thought it ok that he share her with her husband. It was just Hypothetical as she isn't even married.
How would she react if Joseph Smith said she had to do it or else suffer eternal disadvantages?
She represents wife snatchers like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and should be able to take on board that reality.
The question was very appropriate.
I don't care that they are only 19 year old kids. They are dangerous to be out peddling a cult and especially to innocent good hearted people less knowledgeable or gullible.
They are cult recruiters and should be told what they really are. Their parents should be held more accountable for not doing their own due diligence.
They (she - the lead missionary with the big mouth) was upset because her delusional fantasy view of Joseph Smith was being threatened by the reality of the real Sleazy sexual predator Joe Smith.
That's what upset her. I know Mormons, I've lived two years of my life amongst them. They get upset when you ask a truth and a reality about their founder leaders because it doesn't match the whitewash they were brought up with or prefer to believe.
The guy was asking the right question and not the question they wanted him to ask like 'will I find my car keys if I join the church and pray'?
They can't admit wife swapping and child rape are wrong because their idols did it. What you see demonstrated here is massive cognitive dissonance at work. Missionaries whole reason for being is to convince others to sing the praises of Joseph's Myth, whom they idolize. Whenever anybody brings up any information that condemns his behavior as adulterous, illegal or dishonest, they predictably parrot the cliches they were brainwashed to repeat without thinking about it, "Well God commanded him to do that at that time." Completely oblivious to the fact that would require God to totally contradict the law he handed down to Moses, supposedly. They launch into testimony bearing mode.
Thank god I was spared all the testimony crap. I only got one mandatory testimony from each person the first time I met them. It was never used on me as reflex response to hard questions and I had put the hours in researching church history,so they got grilled on pretty much the whole 'anti' mormon works. As I said earlier,they were great girls,just born in to the wrong belief system. is there a right one? Maybe I should go to the woods .....
I like Taoism, Epicureanism and Stoicism. Combine them all and you get Dudeism, basically Buddhism for Dudes. The slowest growing religion on the planet!
I have a somewhat similar, yet different approach on the rare occasion when I engage missionaries in conversation. I ask "on the last day of his life, June 27, 1844, what was the reason for Joseph Smith being in jail?" You would be surprised at some of the answers I get.
You tease misterzelph. Examples plz. I know he was persecuted for his beliefs, I heard all the world will speak good and evil or whatever often enough. Hardly takes a genius to know if you pedals lies people are going to be pissed with you, and he knew damn well he was lying for personal gain. what a prophet.