What exactly is denying the holy ghost? I am still not sure. I remember as a teenager being terrified in case I had accidentally denied him. And why is it worse to deny the HG than deny Jesus if jhe was the one whontook on all or sins and died for us et? Why is hg more important?

I was always taught that it was only possible if you were one of the few people who had seen Jesus.

If you knew for certain (no longer had to rely on faith) that Jesus was real and then decided for whatever apostate reason to deny or fight against the church, that was what it meant to deny the holy ghost.

I'm curious to see what other people were taught. Even when I was a TBM, the wording of the sin and definition didn't seem to match.

Joseph smith said this...

•“All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy. This is the case with many apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 6:314).

Interestingly the last sentence mentioned apostates. The church has labeled many, many people 'apostate' yet I don't know a single one that would fit the criteria of having
"the heavens opened to him, and know God"
"to say the sun does not shine while he sees it"

The church throws around the term 'apostate' and 'apostasy' in the same way you would say 'scoundrel' or 'naughty'. They'v hijacked the term to label anyone who disagrees, and cause fear amongst the tbm's.

I was taught it's virtually impossible for a regular rank and file member to deny the Holy Ghost.

I've wondered if this was just BS that Joe concocted to vilify "apostates" that had knowledge that could destroy him...Oliver Cowdery, the BoM witnesses, etc...? When did he say this? If it was Kirtland in the mid-1830's, when members were jumping ship left and right, I would bet he was just trying to get people to stay away from Oliver, David Whitmer, etc...

I think it's deliberately vague and cryptic to keep people off balance and frightened.

It's easy to control people who live with such a low-grade fear of even their own thoughts.

Thank you for asking this question that I too have wondered about for half a century. Since I no longer identify myself with the mighty morg I figgered I had placed this label upon myself, but wasn't absolutely sure. Not that it matters to me now, but I always wondered. Perhaps St. Peter will explain it to me as he points a bony finger down a dark path to the left.

Seems to me that Joseph Smith wasn't as well-read or thoughtful as he gives himself credit for. I wondered about that denying stuff too, and thinking I was condemned to outer darkness. Joe forgot this little scripture: Isaiah 1:18: "Come now, and let us reason together,saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Doesn't mention a thing about being in big trouble for denying the HG. Don't seem to recall the New Testament Jesus getting on anyone's case for that, either.

Joseph Smith, Jr., wrote many of these scriptures for himself, and others, to trip them up, and make himself feel better.

This used to confuse me as well so I just said screw it I deny it now can I stop living on eggshells?

...denying the holy ghost?

"No soup for you!!"

It's Joseph Smith twisting scripture to suit himself. Again,
nothing original:

"31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy
shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy
Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."
"32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it
shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy
Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world,
neither in the world to come"
-- Matthew 12:31-32

"28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the
sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall
blaspheme:
"29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath
never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:"
-- Mark 3:28-29

"10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it
shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the
Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."
-- Luke 12:10

You need to blaspheme too, for a best seat in Hell.

A sure way to deny the HG it is to gather a group of people in the streets and shout "not my holy ghost" over and over and over as loud as you can.

Be sure and get a permit from your city before attempting this.

You gotta admit that "denying the Holy Ghost" is one of the all time great scare tactics to control the masses. That is way better than, "I'm going to tell your mother."

Due to the seriousness of this, I would think that you would KNOW that you are doing it when you do it.

For JS, I think he used this as justification for the church, much like the flaming sword was used as justification for him to get some young action.

If he can't offer his services to the children of gay couples I'm denying his services. Seems fitting to me. If the holy ghost can deny helping children then it isn't one like Casper.

That term was bantered about when I left the church. To be a son of perdition by Mormon definition is to be worse than the devil. Defamation is "to be held up to hatred and contempt in one's community". If that term is ever used against someone that leaves the church, and they have the means, I wish they would sue!!!!

I only get honorable mention in being called an anti-Christ. But then again all atheists to Mormons are Kory Whores who believe in Satan but not God.

I deny all ghosts wholly.

I don't believe in ghosts and most intelligent people call it a spirit anyway. I deny EVERYTHING in Mormonism anyway, so holy cow, where's the ghost?

I recall the definition as everyone here is describing it: having seen Jesus, to deny him.

I now believe, however, that that is not strictly accurate. I think that despite what JS and the scriptures teach in the passages cited above, the standard that he and modern leaders apply is whether a person has had his/her calling and election made sure. Originally this was something that Jesus was supposed to do for faithful members, but by the end of his life JS had substituted the Second Anointing--and as we all know, that doesn't involve Jesus at all. It's like the apostles once being witnesses of JC but now being witnesses to the name of JC.

What I am saying/suggesting/wondering is that receiving the Second Anointing and then apostacizing is the sin against the HG. There would be other ways to commit that sin, but when JS and others spoke of apostates being condemned to hell, they meant people in their circle, people who had received the highest priesthood ordinance.

Has Tom Phillips denied the holy of the host of priesthood underwear bearers?

Yes, in his Mormon Stories interview and, I believe, in some postings here, he says that the church considers him to have denied the Holy Ghost.

I read the equivalent in one of the arcane books on the temple, perhaps Mysteries of Godliness. But I don't remember with confidence which book it was.

He would be fair game (by their rules) for them calling him out...except they would have to reveal the Second Anointing to the world. He would be worse than their fictional Korihor but I'm sure they would take him back if he asked them.

Look at Thomas Marsh. They love it when their black sheep return regardless of their made up rules.

It's this:

The so-called "holy ghost" is a figment of some peoples' imaginations, and doesn't exist. It's a control mechanism the church imposes on its members, trying to convince them that their feelings (manipulated by the church itself, of course) matter more than facts.

I deny it.

There.

No lightning bolts. No divine retribution. No lack of "blessings." No boils and warts. Just a life free of superstition and mormon manipulation.

[Stepping away from hie with a wary gaze cast heavenward.]

Is Halloween over yet mom? Chuckle, chuckle.

If the removal of the HG is such a big thing, why did I feel so joyful when I sent in my letter of resignation. I was on a high for several weeks there after. Humm... maybe it was a "false/fake" high. Maybe the angels weren't singing...

I'm a holy ghost buster.

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/c/c2/holy_ghost.png



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2017 11:03AM by Dave the Atheist.

the holy ghost told me that the mormon church is nothing but lies, and to leave it.

Forget what Smith or any other liar said.

If there is a Holy Ghost (I seriously doubt there is, but what do I know?), It knows where to find me.

HG, dude, seriously: look me up if you're in the 'hood. I'm make time for you. Until then, though, I got things to do. Catch you later.

He tried to come into my house once, but was spooky and weird. So I denied him. He was pissed off, and threatened me. I took a swipe at him, but my fist went clean through his face. "Ha-ha!," he said. He sounded just like Nelson Muntz.

Spoooky. At least you didn't get possessed.

Rather than denying, it's more like I'm not superstitious!

J.S., Jr probably meant it more like denying JSC [his cult]/ the BBC (big bad church-cult).

It's a danger which exists for some who are given to bizarre and exaggerated forms of indulgent behavior; for almost everyone it's not something to fear. Some of the recent terrorist murderers; N Korea's leader- I believe yes, SOPs. Shedding innocent blood. It's like a fate worse than death.
I don't believe that the possibility exists, except for those in a certain portion of their eternal existence- after they finish up with The Samsara, in other words, it's not possible, that they should experience such Fall.

I never worried about that. How can you deny something that is not real in the first place? I deny fairies!

Being a female, I never had any special ordinances or powers or anointings--or any of that stuff.

Even my GA relative, who was very high up in the church, said that he NEVER saw Christ. Mormons used to say that He and the church President at the time, would "walk and talk with Christ in the temple." That made him furious!

This stupid son-of-perdition thing, makes the false assumption that it is possible for a human being to "have the heavens opened unto them, and to know God," which is a lie in the first place.

I've go to go, but there are a lot of Mormon teachings that, IMO, that are blasphemous. The Mormons have neutralized the Atonement, by changing the scriptures to say that men may be saved--through obedience to the laws and principles of the Gospel. Jesus says "All are saved." Period. Russel Nelson said that "Unconditional love is anti-Christ." I believe that unconditional love is pure Christ-like love, and is at the center of any decent religion.

To use Jesus in a scam, to misquote Jesus for your own gain, to falsely take His mantle upon yourself, to claim that you speak for Jesus--all that is blasphemy--taking His name in vain--far worse that swearing.

Don't worry about it. You can't deny a ghost. Ghosts aren't real.

You can deny the holy ghost 1000 times and sleep like a baby.

Fire up your netflix account make popcorn and laugh it off as silly Joe and bible speak.

Lol...I've denied HG many times. It's fun. Like right now for instance, "I deny you HG..you POS you." Very cathartic.

Joe could rattle on w/ nonsensical diatribe until his arse caught fire. Warren Jeffs is the same way. Narcissists are like that.

I always thought it was those who had seen God/Jeebus, so just all the prophets, because of course, they'd all seen him. Then Wrinkley Hinckley admitted to Larry King that he gets inspiration from God through a prompting (ya know, like all the rest of us do--even us apostates cause it's call intuition).

But my dad told me several years ago that he'd had a witness from Holey the Ghost that was so strong that he thinks he would be a Son of Perdition if he ever denied the church. Well, I guess you'd better keep playing along then--I sure don't want you to ruin our party in perditionland.

The LDS church denies all reality, so, naturally, I rebuke (and deny) anything and everything Mormon... even if that includes it's attempted moral hijacking of "the holy ghost", probably meaning my own personal spirit, which it can't have, because it isn't nearly worthy.

I'm treating tscc just like it treated me: useless, and worthless. It didn't GIVE me the holy ghost but tried to take it away! I know the difference.