I'm talking conspiracy theories here. Illuminati type stuff. I was having a "conversation" with a Mormon and she was so sincerely trying to convince me on how good the Mormon church. What I wanted her to understand is that, yes, the common member is a decent, unknowing, person/neighbor/coworker but the Corporation, from high up is evil.

Anyway, would love to hear your theories on just how evil.

Corporate psychopaths with a heavy slide of divine justification that they are doing god's work, which in my opinion, makes them more dangerous and psychotic than the worst wall street traders.

I was reading conspiracy information when I kept running across the involvement of religions, the church was always on the list. That was what got me looking at what might be going on with the church, that led me to the historical issues, that led me out.

They will pay you on Tuesday for a hamburger today. But Tuesday is intangible spiritual rewards after you are dead and the hamburger is everything tangible you have, or will have.

LOL ... You just described my RRSP... ( or, in the USA, you would call it a 401(k) )

That is just Wimpy not Popeye who would make you eat their spinach.

The fact that they lie, and hide behind God makes it all very shady.

Shady's the word for it.

Like unto the magnificent old oak tree that provides ample shade and shelter.

Everyone marvels at the beauty of the huge overgrown tree that appears ageless after centuries of casting shadows.

And suddenly one night a mild thunder storm topples the tree.

People are aghast that such a mighty oak is gone in an instant.

But it had silently rotted from within, ya see.

Not in to conspiracy theories but how about "by their fruits".

The head of the WWII Japanese Internment camps was Dillon S. Myer, who also was involved in the Indian termination policy.

The disastrous Indian termination policy was from apostle Richard G. Scott's father-in-law Arthur V. Watkins.

And the more recent "torture" policies had LDS members involved.

At the very least, members of the LDS church are no better than anyone else.

The claim that the Mormon church is led by a living prophet makes one wonder why the members who were involved in these questionable government policies were not counseled and advised by men of god that the outcomes would not be good. Prop 8 is a good example of "inspired" direction from on high.

I've waffled for years on whether or not the leaders actually "believe" or not. It's hard to find evidence to show one way or the other, of course, so it's largely a guess. I'm certain Smith knew it was all a fraud and a lie. I'm pretty sure about Brigham. For all the ones since then, I lean towards them knowing it's all fake, but they may very well be "pious frauds," believing to the point of deciding the lying and control are "for the greater good" (I'm certain that's NOT the case with Smith).

Either way, their actions aren't justified. Believers or not, they lie, cheat, steal, control, demean, harm, and profit.

I guess it's just that knowing what I know from massive evidence, I have a hard time giving them the benefit of the doubt -- that they actually "believe," and aren't just massively disgusting intentional frauds.

The corporate/cultural version of the flesh eating virus. My $.02 worth.

Ron Burr

How bad is bad?----well bad is very, very bad in my book. Here's a list of just some of the bad:

1. Hinkley, when profit, lied how many times on TV?

2. Jeffrey Holland looked his British Interviewer in the face and lied when asked about the reality of the church's Strengthening the Members Committee.

3. The church/cult/inc "chooses" to have a working Strengthening the Members Committee in this day and age which "keeps tract" of members and others which might present a problem to the church. Taps on phones, following people, and stake-outs are just a few of their activities.

4. Getting VERY involved in politics continually (think Prop.8, think killing the Equal Rights in Utah), all the while lying that oh, they never get involved in politics. Heavens, no.

5. Recent essays are ANYTHING but upfront, truthful, and apologetic to all those who have been hurt immensely for previously talking about the information that now the church/cult/inc. chooses to NOW share.

6. Need I go on??????????????????????????????????????????

I think they're at their very worst when they ask a rape victim how much repentence they think that they need to do themselves. And then they encourage them not to call the police, because they might ruin an upstanding Priesthood holder's life. The guy goes on with his life, completely unpunished. I'd say that's the Good Old Boys Club at its very worst.

I think they're at their very worst when they come to collect tithing money from someone mentally challenged, who doesn't know any better. Or when they suggest that an elderly person might just want to leave their home to the Church in their will. That doesn't make them look so great either.

They're greedy bastards, as far as I'm concerned. It's all about the money.