The music played in contemporary Christian churches completely sucks.

It wasn't so long ago - just a few decades - that you could venture into an average Christian church and be sure to hear some brilliant old classics: "A Mighty Fortress", "God of Our Fathers, Whose Almighty Hand", "All Things Bright and Beautiful", or even more recent classics like "Amazing Grace" or "How Great Thou Art".

Those days are gone. The classics have now been replaced in the average church by really, really bad imitations of early U2 songs - eighth note roots on bass, mid-tempo, no more than four chords, with absolutely no melodic or harmonic inventiveness whatsoever - over which is sung the most vapid lyrics imaginable:

"Jesus...we love you, Jesus...you are our rock....oh Jesus...we love you, Jesus...we praise, you Jesus...in heaven...you are our rock...we love you, Jesus...Yes, Jesus!", or some variant thereof, ad nauseam.

This is odd and tragic. Much of the world's greatest music was inspired by Christianity. The ominous, dark beauty of Catholicism's Gregorian chants, the militant march songs of the Middle Ages, the breathtaking, soaring beauty of cathedral-ready chorales, Negro spirituals, and even folkloric tunes like "This Little Light of Mine", though different stylistically, all strike deeply into the human mind and heart, instantly, whether we believe in Christianity or not. And they stay there.

Not so the shallow noise now performed on thousands of stages every single Sunday, at least throughout North America. *Those* pieces contain zero penetrative power. They induce no emotional response. You can't even remember how they go *while they're still being played*.

Perhaps this is indicative of a general slide toward vapidity in the Christian church. I mean, Joel Osteen - albeit a genial chap - could never be mistaken for a deep thinker or incisive explicator of the gospel. Same with T. D. Jakes, Rick Warren, or any of today's leading Christian lights. The preaching, like the music, just seems mindless. Maybe the whole thing's just deteriorating. I don't know.

But what I do know for sure is that whereas I'd actually go pop into a church now and again just to hear the old classics - not because I have any religious beliefs, but because they're great tunes - I can't listen to more than three seconds of contemporary Christian music without instantly wanting to run out of hearing range.

And that means, I won't be going to any Christian churches any time soon. Or maybe, ever again.

Just my two cents.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2015 12:03AM by Tal Bachman.

...in the congregation where Bach was playing complex accompaniments to the old chorales, or Cesar Franck was improvising at the organ during the communion. And that music was "contemporary" for its day (though definitely not the pops).

and what do you think of John Tesh's music?


KW

Actually, I dislike the lyrics and the subject matter more than the melodies.

IMO there's nothing like the old classics being played on a magnificent organ in a cathedral that has arches laced with stained glass reaching skyward.
There's nothing that can match that kind of theatre.

Bach organ preludes. I have a two CD set. That would be my religious music. I play it every Halloween. I'm a dia de los muertos guy.

Try Glide Memorial in S.F.

If there's anything that would take me to church its a great choir in a black church.

Actually, I'd listen to good musicians playing anything. I don't really hear lyrics as it is. Something as simple as a bass player that can groove engages me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2015 12:03AM by thingsithink.

Palestrina, Thomas Tallis, Buxtehuda.

Heck yeah!

Even some of those 19th Century English hymns.

Give me 'Lo, How A Rose E'er Blooming', 'Morning Has Broken', or even the Anglo-centric 'Jerusalem' and bring me a box of Kleenex.

You have superb taste in music, sir. At this very moment I have "The Tallis Scholars Sing Palestrina" in my CD player. Nothing is better for relieving tension and calming the mind than Gregorian chant.

For my money, the greatest hymn ever written is still "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing." Even now I can't hear it without choking up a little. It's so good even the MoTab can't mess it up for me.

I've never listened to a choral rendition of "Jerusalem," though I guess I ought to. The only version I've heard is the one by Emerson Lake & Palmer.

Allegri Misere on Ash Wednesday! That'll strike repentance into any cold atheistic hearts! Just a joke, just a joke...the Boner.

We had a Christian radio station here in Lethbridge playing that drivel...and it finally died a natural death. Now it's spot on the FM dial is another rock station...which I don't listen to either.

Ron Burr

You guys need to come to my church on Sunday, St. Alban's Anglican. No contemporary music there and we have stained glass as well as a really good pipe organ. Come on down.

Where is St Albans Angelican church?

All of my new hymns seem to be coming from movies and Broadway. I have felt "the Spirit" more than I ever had in any church of worship. The lyrics, the music, the audience participation and (silence) have brought me closer to the heavens than any organ pounding or Christian Rock. Damn It, I'm and atheist and these songs still stir my soul. Damn you Susan Boyle. And I cry (who wouldn't) when I see the Emmanuel Kelly video of him singing Imagine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W86jlvrG54o

Anyways here's some of my other new favorites; though I'm finding more and more everyday...but not at a church.

The songs from Les Misrables "Stars" and "Bring Him Home"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I_Qbdn7kiw & Bring him home.
Joseph & the Technicolor Dreamcoat; Jesus Christ Superstar.

The theme songs from all of the Hobbit and Lord of Ring movies.
Billy Boyd's The last Goodbye https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4j_kCQ4f2Q
Billy Boyd's the Edge of Night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07tyg4JZWkA
Over the Misty Mountains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OiYDUEu3i8
Enya's May it be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8u4VLk0iTI
Annie Lennox Into the West: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shdiTRxTJb4
Ed Sheeran's I see fire:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fngvQS_PmQ

Alex Boye and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrVTuskdCgo

and yeah that Archuleta kid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GytW_rgr0RM

I agree that Les Miserables has amazing music. I regret that I've never seen Les Mis on Broadway, or, more to the point, seen Colm Wilkinson live. He has fantastic range and an amazing voice. Our family is a bit fanatic about him and Les Mis.

I think the MoTab is pretty good, especially with christmas hymns or the few Mormon Hymns that aren't shitty or are regular protestant hymns. Their albums use to sell really well back in the day, from what my parents tell me. It sounds hard to believe, but I suppose times have changed.

Can anyone tell me how 'Amazing Grace' and 'A mighty Fortress is Our God' are not in the Mormon Hymnal?

in Louisiana whose favorite hymn was "A Mighty Fortress", and it became kind of an unofficial tradition to feature that hymn on the Sunday before her birthday, just because this lady was such a sweetheart and friend to everyone.

She put up a valiant fight against cancer, but lost. This was back in the 80s.

Last I heard, that congregation is still keeping the tradition of playing that hymn on the Sunday before her birthday. I think that is pretty special.

So, Tal, you don't like unprofessional contemporary worship services. Big deal, try going to a Canadian Anglican "high" church service. I attended St. James in Toronto and the music was as traditional and high quality as if I were at King's College, Cambridge (Okay, maybe not quite that good, but you get the point).

In my church, we have an amazing organist, fair choir, and very amateur praise band. If I want Bruckner's Te Deum, I crank up the stereo or hit the Catholic Cathedral during St Cecelia's festival.

The Boner

PS, please bring back Dr. love, I'm worried (from the content of your posts) that you're not getting laid enough.

mmm hmmm

Well, since everyone is agreeing, I'll just put in my two cents. I can't stand traditional church music (and I'm not talking Mormon music). There are a few descent hymns, but 95% sound like a funeral dirge. They are terribly slow, impossible to sing, and since the language is written in the music equivalent of "King James Old English" 10 seconds after a song has ended, I couldn't tell you what it was about, or remember one line. I've also never been fond of organ music

I'll take contemporary Christian music as is played on KLOVE any day of the week over traditional Christian music.
http://www.klove.com/
If a church plays ONLY traditional music, I won't set foot it in it.

BYUBoner

Your worries are unwarranted...

However, I'd be happy to write up a few Dr. Love posts for you. Any (serious) questions?

Tal, it sound like one of us is getting some action (and it sure isn't me).

Maybe, just for fun, Dr. love could address romantic outdoor sex for old people...just saying... Boner.

How can you mend a broken heart?

How can you stop the rain from falling down?

How can you stop the sun from shining?

What makes the world go 'round?

What's to discuss? Bring a blanket and have at 'er...

But about your lack of action, I can conjure up Dr. Love (seance-style) to give you a few tips on how to get your lady riled up.

What seems to be the problem?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2015 12:23AM by Tal Bachman.

I wonder if the moving emotional response some of us still feel when hearing these hymns, even years after leaving religion behind, is due to the beauty and movement of the music, its self, or conditioned response, from when we believed, that is triggered when we hear that music again?

Boner - Women enjoy making love outdoors, wrapped in warm blankets, or furs, in front of a blazing fire. That can be on the beach, in the woods, in a meadow, by a lake, just let your imagination go. We also appreciate some sort of shelter offering privacy and soft cushioning. Great outdoor activities with a sense of adventure and even a bit of danger where we depend on our man to well, be a man giving us protection and excitement and protection is a very bonding, experience increasing our desire to have a sexual bonding. ;)

No sand.
No pine needles.
No poison ivy.

Thanks for your consideration, and other useful parts.

(Anonymous Female)

Sometimes Backman, you can be a real pain in the arse! If it were THAT easy don't you thing I'd be doing the nasty rather than posting with you on RfM?

Seriously, I want a GOOD Dr. Love post on romantic outdoor sex! I've read your rugby posts; hell, I even agreed with you on your serious posts. Just a little quality advice on how an old fart with one testicle who takes boner meds can be more of a love machine for Mrs. Boner outdoors. Keep smiling you'll get here someday! The would be Boner.

I'm an atheist, but there are still many hymns that give me goosebumps. I was raised Lutheran and I don't know what the Lutheran church is like now, but growing up, all those songs you mentioned were sung regularly. Some of my favorites were "Crown Him With Many Crowns," "All Hail the Power of Jesus' Name" and the Naval Hymn (my dad was in the Navy).

My second daughter went to a Lutheran-affiliated university for music ed and was in the choir and symphonic band. Every performance ended with Luther's hymn, "A Mighty Fortress" and the audience would stand. It got to me every time.

Surprised no one has brought this up :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlwtgaQZYDI

BYU Boner

I need more detail. Is your wife not interested in sex? Or just not interested in outdoor sex? Or do you not know how to raise the possibility to her? Is your wife adventurous by nature, or shy? Tell me what's going on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2015 12:48AM by Tal Bachman.

Randy J - That's one of the best pop ballads ever...

Tal, I was just yanking your chain. Being real serious, my wife has refused sex for years because I left TSCC. She's not into me, and anything sexual is "animalistic." Ive done a lot of marriage therapy, but in the end, she's just doesn't love me. I stayed in the marriage for my kids and grandkids. I didn't intend to bring up bad feelings; you were kind enough to reply. I should have just stuck with the music part.

Anyhow, I did enjoy the Dr. love posts! Tal, you're very articulate and insightful in your posts. The very best for you! The Boner.

Even if the music was absolutely amazing, christian churches would still suck

Someone put out some Lord of the Rings selections.
I’ll add my fav Lord of the Rings song … Pipin’s Song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmj25u5mVvg

My kids love it when I sing it to them while at the piano.
It works really well when you stay droning on the tonal root with bass octaves, and then play the melody while you sing along …very shivery.

Tal mentioned my two favourite Christian hymns: Amazing Grace and How Great Thou Art.

Beyond that, the only Christian music I ever hear is when I sometimes go see my buddy sing with his large Catholic Church choir (they are great). However, I wouldn’t know who composed their music, or much about it beyond that it is complex, and beautiful. They use a huge pipe organ, too. I’m not very cultured in devotional music though, as I was raised a heathen atheist. :(

I find most of today’s music lacks the complexity and diversity that we used to hear in the older days. From jazz right through to the popular music of the 60’s, 70’s and even into the 80’s has been replaced by very similar sounding stuff today, as if everyone just goes for one kind of sound. Or maybe I’m just old, but it sure seems repetitive and thin to me. Maybe the movie idiocracy is coming true? Can’t people handle a little variation or complexity anymore? Hmmm.

Besides European Cathedrals, I might consider Santa Barbara area when Kenny Loggins plays in church.

The strangest I've heard was Bjork in a NYC Cathedral. Strange in a good, haunting way like a dead angel.

Mormon music was funeralesque without joy and usually two beats behind. (Present talented musicians/conductors here excepted.)

Some very nice suggestions here about music. Thanks all.

Sorry to hear about your plight, BYU Boner. Let me know if Dr. Love can help you out with anything specific.

We went to a cousin's funeral recently, and "Jerusalem" was played, on a lovely open-pipe organ, by a professional organist. Blake's poem was printed on the program, and we all sang, and my brother and I had tears streaming down our faces. I hadn't heard that song since "Chariots of Fire", and snippets of it here and there, in broadcasted British events. I found the Vangelis movie sound tract in my car's CD player, and when my husband abandoned us, I would play "Jerusalem" over and over again, and it would lift my spirits, every time.

That was one of my hymn-singing highs. The hymn-singing low for all-time, perhaps for the entire Western World, was when the MoTab choir sang that Southern Spiritual. You remember the one with the hand-flapping and the swaying.