In the posting by tig, it's mentioned that the church is now expecting the units in Central America to be financially self sufficient or else. This seems to me, to be giving up on the whole stone rolling forth thing.

It's long been known that 3rd world country membership doesn't pay for itself. So, if the church is cutting of Central American, it will surely do the same for Africa and any other area that isn't bringing in the net dollars for the church.

To me, this seems to be a resignation that the "church" part of the LDS conglomeration is no longer profitable enough.

It's long been discussed here, that in the end, all that will be left is the business concerns of the Corporation. I think that as of last week, this is exactly what is happening.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1489168

It's a proven business model; get rid of the dead weight & make every division a profit center.
But watch- every place they pull out of (are Mormons allowed to pull out?) will be devastating to those who "didn't have enough faith or work hard enough" to prevent them from abandoning their efforts.

You can thank that business model for six-to-five Blackjack, the disappearance of free parking downtown, resort fees, all-you-can-eat-for-$40.00-buffets, and $200 ("Plus Tax and Fee") shows where stars lip-synch to their own recorded songs. The corporate bean counters have destroyed the old LV ambiance, and that will eventually be its downfall.

From what I've read here, the parallels to LDS are clear. Many posts have reported that the church used to be fun, but the centralization of finances has taken all the life out of it. Sounds familiar.

the only thing left to do was to start sucking the life out of itself. That seems kind of fitting !

What about all those missionaries out there ?? Is the surge even over!??

I agree.

First they have every ward send every cent they get or earn to central headquarters and their budget to be returned to them by the COB.

Doesn't work when there is negative cashflow south of the equator draining the wealthy Utah wards. They just wanted these people's names as new converts - they never intended to actually help them survive.

So now they will send them back to Catholicism if they can't pay for the ward budget themselves.. Oh, karma we do love thee.


Kathleen

Think of the joy of those families being reunited, when the evil cult pulls away, even before their dust has settled in the road.

Is it possible that, as reported here by a poster from Honduras, that the essays are taking a toll on the ward and stake leaderships in Centro? If COB sees the most faithful bolt for the doors, they may realize that the game is over in Centro. No sense throwing good money at the problem any more.

I dunno, but I'd love to hear more about the fallout from the essays in Latin America.

We'll know that they're in full blown retreat mode when they announce the end of the weekly 3 hour torturefest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2015 12:10AM by Shummy.

Shummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We'll know that they're in full blown retreat mode
> when they announce the end of the weekly 3 hour
> torturefest.

I'd love to see that happen!!

Devoted Exmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It's long been discussed here, that in the end,
> all that will be left is the business concerns of
> the Corporation. I think that as of last week,
> this is exactly what is happening.
>
> http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1489168


Good!!

I'm still doubtful, but on this I would like to doubt my doubts.

Really though, I can't see it being the end until they play their last remaining financial card, that being the formal reinstitution of the Law of Consecration. Tithing was brought in only after the first try at the LOC had failed dismally. As a matter of doctrine, however, the LOC was only suspended and could always be brought back. It's still got a scriptural basis, so I can see some future "revelation" trying to bring it back.

However, I can't even begin to imagine how it might work in practice. It's only been tried in a rural, isolated, agricultural society. Implementing it in a modern, technological country, with a strong central government and an IRS, seems an impossible task. But that doesn't mean they can't make the attempt in a last desperate maneuver.

And then, WHEN the LOC proves to be yet another epic fail on the part of SLC, at that point I'll have a good solid hope that the end of TSCC could be near.

They won't do the Law of Consecration because it would mean the top rich people in the morg would have to share with poorer Mormons.

Never.Gonna.Happen.

Consecration was started when church leaders (especially Joseph Smith) were destitute and needed the money of wealthier converts.
Note how Joseph Smith talked Martin Harries into selling his farm.

Joseph didn't talk Martin into selling his farm, he received a revelation! Jesus commanded it!

Seriously now, D&C 19 is proof positive that Joe was nothing but a sleazy conman from the very beginning. Any TBM that tries to argue that the threats in that section came from Jesus is beyond deluded.

The church's expansion in poor countries has long been financed by the tithes and offerings of the faithful core in rich countries. So what this new move says is that either the church has overextended itself in poor countries, or that the faithful core is shrinking. If the latter, then the church is in serious trouble.

When any business - and the church is a business - starts to lack the funds needed to invest in future growth, the end for that enterprise is near. The mormon business model only works in wealthy, industrialized nations. That's because the church isn't designed to reach out to, and to help people. It's designed to bring in profits for the elite leadership of the organization. Church members in wealthy nations will simply believe that they were chosen to be born in their wealthy industrialized nation because they were chosen by god and that they are the elect. No one will feel the need to help their fellow man in less fortunate parts of the world. Thank god for that since the church is a cult any way and the third-world will be better off without it.

To donate ten percent of your income to the church when you're a wealthy presidential candidate, doesn't affect your lifestyle at all. To donate ten percent of your income when you're an average American is a sacrifice, meaning that your standard of living goes down significantly, or that you have to struggle a lot, just to feed your family and remain temple-worthy. But it's possible to do. When you live in village in the jungle, or a poor third world community, you have a choice: either feed your family or pay tithing. But you can't do both. Looks like even tithe payers in these areas won't be getting any help from the church. Oh well, it too bad to be them. Maybe they weren't valient in the pre-existance.... or so they'll say.

How on earth could they institute the Law of Consecration? It's just like you said- It only works on a small scale, agrarian model. And it's a fast way to make the wealthiest mormons show their true colors and abandon the church.

My Dad makes, before taxes, somewhere in the areas of 400-450k a year. He has now for 4 years, and before that, he had about a half a million dollar windfall, and make about 40 percent less than the number above.

Despite him having probably paid in close to a million dollars in tithes and fast offerings in the past 34 years (his career in business and then as a doctor), He is definitely wealthy, has saved prudently, and when he retires in 10 years or so, he will have enough money to do whatever he wants with my mom till he dies, and will still leave a healthy estate to his children.

I just can't fathom how when someone looks at the numbers that way- and see how the money is wasted, or goes to line the pockets of a few dozen men- they can keep doing it.

that the day when LDS Inc. finally has to sell off some of their house of secret handshakes temples is looming a little larger on the horizon ? That is what I am looking forward to !!!

What would become of all the The So Called Corporation's physical assets (farms, land, infratructure)? Do they resort back to the SOLE President? Ironically, this would be a magical end: The ultimate LONG GAME con....the members would be left with literally nothing except disillusionment & the MOR-ROYALTY ride off into the sunset laughing all the way to ZIONS BANK....

Interesting thread.

I think you folks are VERY astute in your comments.

The US, Canada and Europe is where the cult is getting their tithing "donations".

The internet is taking an increasing number of members off the check writing habit to LDS,Inc.

Members in Africa, S America have little to contribute to the coffers and are being abandoned. imo

Great thread. I completely agree with the observations that because TSCC doesn't "do" any meaningful outreach (serving the poor and needy in its communities, even its own members) it will continue to lose numbers especially in countries with a high level of poverty.

I don't think TSCC will disappear any time soon and will always have a strong foothold in its little theocracy of Utah, but I hope to live the next 50-60 years partly in order to see it shrink to a mere shadow of its current self.

I'm doing my own version of food storage -- keeping stocked with plenty of popcorn as I sit and watch its continual decline.

A couple of posters have raised perfectly valid objections to my suggestion that the church may attempt to reinstate the Law of Consecration in a last-gasp move. I share those objections. As I wrote, I can't see how it could possibly succeed. That's why I suggested it as a possibility only as a last resort. If the top leaders see the church circling the drain and in real danger of going under, they may figure they have nothing to lose and concoct a convenient "revelation." They might think that at the least, they can squeeze out a little bit more for their own nesteggs before it all comes crashing down.

However, *IF* this does happen, of course the elite won't have to participate. When have the powers ever been asked for any real sacrifice? The Huntsmans and R0mneys and Marriotts etc. would all get exemptions, or would receive private secret deals, maybe large-scale second anointings for the appropriate donation amount.

No, any announcement of the LOC would be strictly for the rank and file, with everything shoveled into the bottomless pit of Church Inc. Average members would be made to believe the elite were in the same boat, but of course the reality would be far different. Again, it's completely unsustainable, and the whole house of cards would collapse in short order.

It's an insanely stupid prospect, but church leadership has a well-documented history of doing insanely stupid things. As self-centered and out of touch as they are, I can't put even something as unlikely as this past them.

Nah, LOD didn't work then and it can't work now for more of the same reasons.

The church will shrink back to it's core but even in the Morridor, it's a hard sell these days.

My prediction is they'll eventually limp along with the church part of the corporation, particularly the local units, until they also become unprofitable, and then they'll focus on the for profit endeavors.

Devoted Exmo is correct. The brethren will say "send us whatever money you have, we'll send you some pamphlets and books. If you want to have Sunday meetings, use the local community center, or whatever. Good luck".

Brigham Young never participated in a Law of Consecration system personally. That tells the tale. He and his friends ended up owning the resources of the territory and state of Utah.

Question:

Does SLC then assume ownership of the buildings and does the money collected remain in the ward or branch that collects it?