It occurred to me that the next time any TBM tries to bear their testimony to me I can offer mine in return..

"I KNOW that the church is NOT true, I know that Joseph Smith was a fraud, a liar, a thief, a murderer, an adulterer and a pedophile. I KNOW that Brigham Young was a raving lunatic madman dictator. I KNOW that the Book of Mormon is a total fiction written by Joseph Smith with most of it plagiarized. I KNOW that that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a CULT and that those men claiming to be prophets who speak to God are charlatans interested only in robbing the members of their hard earned money for their own personal gain… "

If they can testify to us, we should be able to testify back!

You pretty well summed it up, shapeshifter!

Beat 'em at their own game, huh?

I dunno. It may very well have an impact on people who value "testimonies." It wouldn't work on me. I just point out that they don't "know," they "believe," and that's not the same thing.

But hey, whatever gets 'em to start wondering is good. Go for it :)

Like my ExMo wife would say to her testie bearing Naxi TBM Nom, "Yeah, I know Mom, but Joseph's Myth had sex with his followers wives and teenage daughters."
I asked her how her Mom responded and she said,"She didn't have any answers. None of them do."
Pretty much.

When I was TBM, I was always amazed at the power of bearing a testimony, because the other side would invariably stand in silent awe.

Of course, now I know they were inwardly rolling their eyes and thinking "It's no use reasoning with this guy"...

That's what I do now, also. It works wonders. Good going Shapeshifter. Fightin' fire with fire!

I use this:


Jesus thinks I'm awesome. And his grumpy old dad is pretty pleased with me too.

I'll be fine at any second coming or judgement day.

LOL, love all the answers here, thanks!

And yes they think 'know' and 'believe' are the same thing.

But when we use 'know' back it would actually mean 'know'..

We can say 'my know means know!' (and yours doesn't!) Ha ha

And that 'silent awe' response to testimonies rt mentioned.. yes I get that now too, they were just thinking 'wow, CRAY CRAY!'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2017 11:00AM by shapeshifter.

You can back your testimony up with paperwork.

All they have is "a feeling in their heart", which trumps your actual facts.

Unfortunately for them, your paperwork/actual facts are mostly taken from the very men (JS,BY) who are responsible for giving them the feeling in their heart in the first place.

But they have a feeling in their heart, so it must be true--stop with your annoying facts already!

I feel like I have had some success with the this. I bear my testimony back at TBMs. When they do it I respond just as sincerely by letting them know that I sought the answer to the truthfulness of the BOM and "the church." I read the entire BOM, prayed and asked Heavenly Father. After much fasting and prayer I finally received peace in my heart when I accepted that the Mormon church wasn't the one true religion. I end it by saying how thankful I am to we can all receive personal revelation and have the ability to know what we should each do in our lives.
It really throws people off and if they try to say it was Stan I repeat the testimony and the part about reading it he BOM, fasting, praying, and yearning for the truth. I use their terminology, their tone of sincerity, their sort of vacant loving joyful facial expressions. Most mormons can't figure out how to respond because I do everything they did and have an amazing experience of truthfulness just like them, except I got a different answer. They are stunned.
Once they are at the testimony phase of a conversation facts, logic, and history are pointless. The only thing left is squishy warm feelings in the boosum. She I share my squishy warm feelings in the language they can understand.

Wow that's brave of you 'drakprincess' not sure if I could pull that off. Esp. hard because I don't really believe in god, at least not as a 'heavenly father' being, so I have a hard time saying anything like that even in an attempt to speak their own language. I do think it's a good tactic though.. it might help crack the shell just a little.

Like that one video (link in the body of the CES letter, I think I posted about it here recently) on youtube where someone explores how they found out that other believers of different faiths arrived at their belief (that THEIR church/cult was TRUE, the ONLY true one in fact).. and he concluded that they all used the same method (asking God in prayer, using the feelings they get based on that as their answer).. the video showed how universal that is and how dangerous (the people who committed mass suicide from the cult 'Heaven's Gate' all thought their 'religion' was the truest because they prayed and felt good about it and in feeling they 'knew',.. they 'just knew')..

So if TBMs can hear someone using the same system (pray, fast, reading their own scripture, asking god if it's true and then going by feelings) and get a different answer,.. well at some point (you'd think) they'd have to question that system for getting answers..

I remember my Jewish BF I had while in college (at the Y) meeting my Mormon classmates/friends who invited us to dinner.. of course they were all over him, trying for a chance at converting him.. Had he read the BoM, had he prayed about it, how did he feel after..

Well he HAD read it and he thought it was bullshit.. but he was kind, played their game.. said yes he had read it, yes he prayed, no he did not get the answer they did. I was proud of him for standing his ground and not being evasive. And I noticed how confused they were.. the one really grilling him was saying 'but did you REALLY pray, I mean PRAY' (LOL) and he's like 'yes I really really did!'.. they finally backed off, but you could see the despair and disappointment in their faces..

That experience was one step in my awakening actually. I was still partially active and my BF was gently helping me to see the BS. (He had been intense into his faith and finally say the BS there, so he had some experience with this and understanding how it feels to be a true believer). I remember thinking that these people were 'friends' and that they were 'nice' but they way they grilled my BF was so disrespectful and obnoxious. I had a hard time calling that 'nice' behavior anymore. And I thought they really can't accept someone else feeling differently from them and having different answers, really NOT cool!

I find bearing my testimony about being led out of the church by a 'spiritual experience' and then ask now did you just have a 'feeling' or did the spirit 'talk/communicate' with you also. I try to 'rub it in' by saying Joseph didn't settle for a 'feeling only' why should anyone? The scriptures say people should 'ask of God' it doesn't say anyone other than Joseph should expect a 'feeling only'

I then relate other 'non Mormon' truths I got in visions, communications, etc. That shuts 'Christians and Mormons' up pretty quickly about any 'feelings' they have had.

I have met only 'one' Mormon that claimed 'spirit' told them of the truth of the BOM (communication or vision) but when we went through the story we determined he had to make a large leap over his claimed 'facts' to make that connection. I then told him of my 'spirit communications' and that they have been telling me a completely different 'truth' so recommended he better ask again.

I see him periodically and feel we have a 'bond' because of 'spirit communication' so I will continue to ask if he has asked about the BoM again and got the same answer from 'spirit'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2017 04:04PM by spiritist.

My standard answer is "I can accept that you believe that to be true. However I do not share your belief".