Before I get into this, let me admit right now that I'm active LDS and I don't plan on changing that. Having said that, I ask that you not judge me and/or question my sincerity. Yes- I've struggled at times (including currently) with a number of things that have happened throughout the church's history (as has my wife). Sometimes I get sooo pissed at members of the church for their cultish behavior. Sometimes I get pissed at members of my ward because they're pricks. In fact, I recently quit my calling because I had to deal with some of the most ridiculous people I have ever met. Anyway, long story short, there are a number of things that I struggle with in the church. I could go on and on with a list of my complaints, but I think you get the point...(which is that I don't consider myself to be a 'typical' mormon).

So here's my question for all of you. Where the hell do you go when you leave the church?

Based on these forums, it seems like you all just stop believing in God and organized religion altogether. For me, this is not an option. Above all else, I believe in God and I am a Christian. Despite my struggles, I value the fact that the church gives me an opportunity to give back to the community and to serve others. Quite frankly, it surprises me that so many of you are able to jump ship and remove all forms of faith from your lives so easily.

I know this will bring down the wrath of RfM upon me, but sometimes when I am at the lowest of lows, I may justify my membership in the church simply because I know there are no better alternatives in the Christian community. Am I really supposed to consider joining some generic Non-Denominational Church? Catholic? Protestant? etc etc? All of those organizations are going to have just as many troubling issues as the lds church.

Anyhow- give me your thoughts. Please no haters, just looking to hear from some folks that experience a similar thought process.

I believe people are liars.

They have always lied.

They will continue to lie.

Also "so easily" is a huge and kinda offensive thing to say.

No one here stopped believing as "Easily" as you presume.

Its most often the result of a long and painful deep process full of self reflection.

So please do not marginalize those who do not believe in the christian tradition any longer.

But with that kind of thought process it is not hard to see how you cant find any good in any other church... I promise you, those other churches do not have the same amount of issues that the LDS one has... Oh they have issues to be sure, but not really on the same level... Of course Im probably biased.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 03:21AM by nonsequiter.

I have been a life long Atheist. I investigated the LDS chruch for 3 years. They did not answer the questions I had so I never joined.

I never had a belief in a god or a chruch. I see no need to replace a belief in a God with anything at all.

Faith to me is not a virtue. It seems strange to me that you can live your life based on Faith. If you have faith in an idea, it prevents you from questioning that idea because it means questioning your faith in that idea. Makes no sense to me.

It is interesting to me that you justify staying in the LDS because you see no better alternative in the Christian Community. That is how Faith limits you. Your refuse to look at alternatives outside of Christianity. You also have faith that the LDS is the best alternative, have you set aside your faith and given the other alternatives a reasonable try? Or do you just have faith that you would not like them?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 03:28AM by MJ.

Valid point nonsequiter - I do apologize for being insensitive. I realize it's a hard transition for many people. I didn't mean to marginalize anybody. And to clarify, I do see a lot of good in a lot of churches.

Mj- You are right, I am limiting myself. I suppose this is part of my question. Is it the lds church that is the problem for many of you or organized religion in general?

If you believe in god and you are a Christian then you will enjoy churches that focus on Jesus instead of Joseph Smith. The only way to know which church to join is to try them first. Other churches have a BIG advantage because they have well trained, paid ministers, all for less than 10% of your income. You might be surprised to find that some churches facilitate real service to people who need it, eg soup kitchens.

The adjustment to being ex-mormon is not easy. It takes time and effort, which is why boards like this exist.

Not having a religious community is not as bad as you might think. It takes time to get used to it. Having Sundays to do whatever you want to do helps.

Good luck in your spiritual journey. Take your time and keep researching. Once you take your mormon goggles off you will see everything differently.

zatarra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All of those organizations are going to have just as many
> troubling issues as the lds church.
>

You won't find very many on this board who will agree with your conjecture. (Making summary statements based on lack of information is not a very helpful habit.)

Most other churches have not felt the need to hide their actual histories from view of the members. You sound like you have no idea how much in the dark you are about LDS history.

What do I believe now? I transitioned from believing in the Old Dude in a white robe and white beard (sporting a serious anger management problem) to an ineffable Creation Force that spawned the Universe. A key change is that I stopped believing that I KNOW anything, because I don't (and never did). All of the stuff I used to say I KNOW turned out to be ... (looking for a tactful word) ... embarrassing.

Many on this board are Christians. Some don't think Jesus ever existed as depicted in the NT. I think he might have existed as an enlightened master - spiritual teacher of truth. The Church that happened after his death is based on scriptures that have been scrutinized for centuries by hundreds of historians ... with more questions than answers being the result.

If you want to be Christian, there are lots of honest denominations out there who don't outright lie to their membership. And they are transparent about the money.

Ultimately, every one of us has charted our own course out of Mormonism. A first step is to consider being authentic with your own self and start to give serious consideration to what YOU feel, what YOU think about what goes on around you, and what YOU want for yourself.

Here is a litmus test you can use on yourself. What is your honest reaction to this statement:

"When the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done."

Your reaction will between 'sounds pretty good' to 'then what is this useless grey sponge that holds my ears apart good for?'

I miss the social aspects of attending church. I wish I could find a social group to belong to/with that would fulfill those needs.

I am so much happier as a person without the LDS church. I do not understand how or why anyone would want to remain a member of such an oppressive group. If one is honest with them self, the LDS religion does not actually worship Jesus. I cannot begin to count the number of Sunday's I attended where there was no mention of Jesus during any of the meetings. Count for yourself. Count how often words like obedience and tithing are spoken. Count how many hours you actually spend each week being a good Mormon. So much busy work.

I cod go on and on but being an active Mormon is not uplifting and spiritual. It is a mind dumbing experience. Do you believe all the hocus pocus of flamming swords, rock in a hat, magical olive oil, magicial underwear and a God that has not and does not communicate with his prophet. A prophet that has no words to share with the world about gods love. A God that changes with the views of the world or whoever the current prophet is.

If you want to believe in God, that is fine but why a crappy God like the mormons claim to believe in?

I see lots of evidence that many people here still have spiritual beliefs, even Christian ones, if you read between the lines and look closely enough. Some even do go to other organized religions, even Christian ones. You probably haven’t read here enough to detect that though, people do tend to keep those ideas mostly to themselves, and rightly so, they are personal convictions.

Also, there are a plethora of other spiritual practices that can be taken up that don’t even include Christianity, and I see lots of evidence that many here have explored other philosophical ideas and teachings. And just because they aren’t Christian, doesn’t mean they are Satanic either. And some choose atheism, but even atheism doesn’t mean some atheists can’t still study philosophy or hold spiritual beliefs.

Where do people go spiritually after LDS? Anywhere they want, that’s kind of the point.

Why not attend a few services of those other churches and see for yourself if they have as many issues as the LDS church? I think you will find that in comparison to LDS the issues are minuscule.

Ps: you are right. There are a lot of atheists here. Mormonism tends to inocculate people from believing in God once it is apparent the LDS Church was a fraud from the very beginning.

Its just that once I found out that the church I had implicitly trusted my whole life was point blank lying to me... it made me keen to reevaluate and reconsider on a serious level EVERYTHING else I had assumed prior.

Im agnostic now because Im still in the process of organizing all the lies from things that I might trust to be true.

I'm a yogi, and a theist. Maya (the phenomenal universe) is illusive and dreamlike, ego is not essentially real, end your thoughts to end delusion and realize essential Self.

Here, here’s a test of your Christian values. Ay this very moment someone is posting here right now in despair at how they've been treated by members for leaving the LDS church. Can you go tell him he's going to be ok? That he's a good, and valuable person on this earth? Can you find the right words to assuage his sadness and fear? And can you do it without telling him he’s suffering because Satan has him, and that all he needs is to come back to LDS for more abuse? Most Christians don’t make people suffer like this guy has, but LDS sure does. Can you help him?

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1498874

Some things are different for every person--what is most important to you in a church, what parts of your faith you want to hold onto, which parts you decide you don't need, etc. But I think there are a lot of commonalities in the emotional roller coaster that you go through as you leave the church and decide how to replace it (or not to replace it).

Personally, I tried a couple of churches in the months right after I left the church, but they didn't turn out to be a very good fit for me. At one church I really liked their approach to God and the intellectualism in the sermons. It wasn't just watered-down feel-good platitudes that I tend to associate with Christianity in general. But that church just felt so weird--all of the jeans and the Christian-themed rock music made me feel like I was at an AA meeting or a bar (and nothing wrong with either of those places, they just didn't have the "churchy" feel that I wanted). I tried more conservative, traditional denominations that sang hymns and had a sermon based on bible passages, but they didn't really feel quite right either.

I finally stopped going to churches altogether. I never felt particularly inspired by reading the Book of Mormon or the bible, but there were other books that I read that made me appreciate and ponder the relationship I had with God (or the lifesource of the universe or however you want to refer to it). Eventually I started doing activities on Sunday like fishing, or hiking, meditation... just things that made me feel calm and connected to God. Honestly, I felt just as 'spiritually renewed' by those activities as I had ever felt at church.

I wasn't really ever that into the social aspect of church--or maybe I had enough social connections through work and life in general that I didn't feel I needed to replace that part of church. I did start doing more volunteering here and there, at the animal shelter and a food pantry and at a crisis hotline. Not a ton, just once a month or so. I had a lot more time to do that since I didn't have to spend all day Sunday at church plus time preparing for callings, etc.

I think the biggest change, though, has been in my attitude towards others. I was definitely raised with the us vs. them mentality, that non-Mormons were somehow scary or that I should avoid/distrust them unless "sharing the gospel" ... now I am more likely to see people I don't know as human, and I'm much more likely to be kind, courteous, and thoughtful. It's like people gradually became *real* to me, and I finally learned how to be respectful of people who are different than I am.

For me, what has replaced church is not really about what I "believe" so much as it is about me taking the time in my life to appreciate nature, to be grateful, to help the less fortunate, and to be kind to the people around me--to help any people that come along in my life that day who need my help, if I can. I honestly feel that I am so much more committed to those principles now than I was as a practicing Mormon. Maybe it's because I left that I was forced to decide what values were really important to cultivate in my life? I don't know.

Anyway, you're the only one who can know what's right for you. At first when you leave the church it does feel scary, because you've spent all this time believing that you have to 'hold to the rod' and do everything a certain way, only take this one path through life. Letting go of your iron grip on that rod--leaving--feels like you are totally lost without a map, no way of knowing which direction to turn. But slowly you realize that it's okay. You can look around, see what your options are, and explore in any direction you choose. If you decide after awhile that you don't like the path you are on, you turn around and go in a different direction. But the choice is always yours, and nobody else is choosing for you. It's nice to be in charge of your own life and calling the shots. It's even better to not have to try to fit yourself into a silly little mold that wasn't meant for you. You just follow your own heart and know that everything is going to be okay, and enjoy the scenery in the meantime.

Whatever you choose, good luck to you. We'll be right here if you need us. :)

I believe that every time I hear a new born baby cry, a guy leaves town...

I believe humans are tribal and cliquish and inherently resist being alone.

I believe that judging others is a waste of time but that judging where you stand with those around is crucial to your happiness.

I believe that if you like doing something, you'll keep doing it, until they put you in jail or give you a Nobel prize.

I believe that somewhere people are having fun and hope I don't show up and ruin it for them.

I believe that most people who ask questions are trying to teach, not learn.

I believe that except we become as little children we can't really have fun.

I believe that man is that he might have joy, and every man who marries a woman named Joy worries about it.

My spirituality from having a testimony hasn't died, but I'm atheist.

By spirituality I mean the sense of awe and interest for all things spiritual and religious.

I don't hold spirituality in contempt, just dogma. I don't know whether there's a god. I don't now believe there is a god. I rather enjoy the freedom of soul, but I would still like to know God. Now, it's Einstein's God, the personification of the sum of the laws of physics.

I don't believe in a personal God anymore. Instead, I realize that the illusion of a personal God is created by people yearning in a sincere expression that is the result of the human condition. So, I guess I've diverted the worship I had for a personal God towards appreciation for the human condition.

I still study my Quad, but in tandem with good books like An Insider's View of Mormonism and View of the Hebrews. :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 08:59AM by Cold-Dodger.

The problem for me was that I couldn't buy into the mainstream view of the Trinity. God sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself. When the voice out of Heaven said, "This is my beloved son. Hear him," who the heck was that? Was Jesus a ventriloquist? He was always talking to himself, praying to himself. That just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

So when I left Mormonism I really had nowhere else to go within Christianity.

But my journey into a complete non-belief in God came with the new attribute I'd gained by studying myself out of the Church, which was critical thinking.

I could not stop with the Book of Mormon. When I realized that it was not what the Church claimed, then my next question was, "Well what about the Bible?" I studied the history of that book and everything just sort of continued to fall like dominoes from there.

A scientist on an ex-Mo forum challenged me saying, "Anyone who doesn't believe in Evolution hasn't really studied it." I thought, "Oh dear. If I'm going to dismiss a thing, then maybe I'd better at least study it first, before I reject it."

Oops. It turned out to be very real. I came away with an understanding of what Evolution was and what it was not.

But that's how it went. The more I educated myself about other things, the more insignificant the LDS Church became and I learned to embrace mystery.

I love to study everything now. My thinking can no longer be contained in a little box where the thinking has been done for me.

I'm much happier as a non-religious person.

I hope that your journey takes you to a place where you can feel contentment within yourself, wherever that may be.

Cigars, whisky, beer and love.

There ARE better alternatives in the Christian community. Methodist (what Joseph Smith actually was), Presbyterians, Christian Community churches, all offer a better model of Christ-like living, while allowing you to select the degree to which you buy into the Jesus myth. You can come and go as you please and participate to any degree you wish, pay offerings or not pay offerings. Your kids get well looked after, your pastors are professional. Best of all, there is often coffee and cakes afterward.

The LDS church offers no good model of Christianity or Christ-like behavior. It is founded and perpetuated on fraud and wrapped in doctrines of secrecy. The leadership has always lied, and just cannot quit becauese of the fundamental nature of the religion.

Mormonism's contradictions are too numerous to really get into, but here's one: The Articles of Faith. For instance, "We believe in being subject to [political rulers, etc.]..." If this is the case, why did John Taylor die in hiding? Why did they illegally practice polygamy, and continue to practice it after 1890 when they said they had stopped? This is the nature of Mormonis--deceit, fraud, lies, manipulation. This is NOT the nature of Mormonism--Christian charity.

The Book of Mormon is a fraud. The BoM does not contain "the fullness of the gospel" even by LDS standards, and is so poorly written as to make the head hurt.

Sure, other churches come with their own problems of misogyny, literalism, etc. Only Scientology and Jehova's Witnesses approach the Mormon experience.

I'm an atheist, raised Catholic, never-mo. I tried to find a Christian church that I could believe in. We tried Quakers, United Methodists and Unitarians. You say that you value the opportunity to give back to the community and serve others.

All of those churches offer plentiful opportunities to do just that. I think they do it in a much purer way than Mormons do. Service opportunities in those churches are targeted at the wider community or groups of people in need. They are not targeted just toward people who are Quakers, UMC or UU, the way much Mormon service is. There are no strings attached. Nobody is trying to convert anybody.

None of these groups worked for me because ultimately when you ask the hard questions, there is no more evidence for there being a god than there is for believing Joe Smith's story.

But these religions are open and honest about what they are and they take responsibility for their screw-ups. There is no double talk about why it was OK for them to exclude black people or for why women it was fine for them to treat women as chattel. And with LDS, women are still systematically excluded from any positions of power. How anybody could be part of that and look in the mirror, I have no idea. Other churches don't hide their historical documents away from the general public, and they don't rewrite their history like something out of Animal Farm.

By the way, as an atheist, I am actively involved in community service and giving back. We volunteer with a food bank. We work at a dog rescue. My kids perform in musical groups that raise many thousands of dollars for a children's cancer fund. You don't need superstition for that.

Beliefs are very limiting.

I am a seeker of knowledge.


It is now known that Jesus is a mythical creation from previous ancient myths.

In all actuality, had Jesus been real, the world would have developed quite differently, particularly after his alleged miraculous 'advent'; yet, the world went on as if nothing had ever happened...

Most of us on RfM have seemingly thrown the baby out with the bath water.

We are simply seeking knowledge, rather than taking on another system of beliefs.

As you research religion, you will arrive at the same precipice as biblical scholars: it is a slippery slope.

Enjoy the slide down.

You state, "Sometimes I get pissed at members of my ward because they're pricks. In fact, I recently quit my calling because I had to deal with some of the most ridiculous people I have ever met."

You are missing the point -- the real ass-wipes are not the members -- the ass-wipes are the General Authorities. Those are the ones you should be upset with. They are the purveyors of lies.

"I value the fact that the church gives me an opportunity to give back to the community and to serve others."

Well, other churches and other organizations also give you that opportunity -- without the deceit and manipulation. You should realize that the convictions that many LDS people cherish are actually quite harmful to other people.

Boyd K Pecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should realize that the
> convictions that many LDS people cherish are
> actually quite harmful to other people.

I read that too quickly and thought that you said "the SERVICES that many LDS people cherish are actually quite harmful to other people", which I agree with. Mormons go for the service projects that make them feel good about themselves, with little regard for whether they are really helping the person or not.

"So here's my question for all of you. Where the hell do you go when you leave the church?"

Uhhhh.....Golden Corral? :-)

"Quite frankly, it surprises me that so many of you are able to jump ship and remove all forms of faith from your lives so easily."

Well, it wasn't so "easily." I, for instance, continued to believe in Christianity for several years after I left the LDS church. My kids went to a Baptist church with their school friends, and I joined an e-mail group for Ex-Mormon Christians. But as time went by, I realized that the Christian story had holes in it just as Mormonism does. For example, Jesus taught the Adam & Eve/Garden of Eden story and the Noachic flood story as literal events. I couldn't reconcile those issues with modern science, so I eventually abandoned all of it. For me, the story had to be all true, or it's all myth.

However, I recognize everybody's right to continue to believe in Christianity if they so desire. Most of my friends and relatives are Christians to some degree, so I don't impose my non-belief on them.

"I know this will bring down the wrath of RfM upon me, but sometimes when I am at the lowest of lows, I may justify my membership in the church simply because I know there are no better alternatives in the Christian community. Am I really supposed to consider joining some generic Non-Denominational Church? Catholic? Protestant? etc etc?"

What you're experiencing here is the effects of what a cultish, authoritarian religion like Mormonism does to peoples' minds. The LDS church teaches that it's the only true one, and that all others have no authority, and teach false doctrines, etc. If you wanna still be a Christian, you have to rid your mind of that kind of dogma. Lots of different churches do good in the world, and you can probably find one that you're comfortable with. Just look around.

Also keep in mind that it's not anybody else's obligation to "show" you the "right church" for you. I've had believing Mormons tell me in the past "If you make me lose my belief, you'd better give me a good alternative!" Sorry, that's not my obligation or anybody else's. It's YOUR life, just do whatever works for you.

As others have said, transitioning out of Mormonism is no easy task. I do believe in God, but, frankly, I completely understand why so many ex-Mormons are atheist.

When I left, I studied philosophy and ended up converting to Christianity. Yes, you heard me. I converted to Christianity.

When I was LDS I didn't really consider myself to be a Christian because even then I knew that LDS and Christians have vastly different beliefs on the nature of God. Now that I have studied Christianity in more depth, it is much more clear to me now that Mormonism and Christianity are different religions. Mormons use a lot of the same terminology as Christians but have different meanings than what Christians understand. Mormonism has much more in common with the various heresies that early Christianity faced than orthodox Christianity itself.

After about 15 months of formal study, I was baptized into the Catholic Church. I had also seriously considered Eastern Orthodoxy. I've sort of compromised by attending a Byzantine Catholic parish.

During my formal study with the Catholic Church, we spent a lot of time discussing the difficult issues. They did not try to hide the ugly aspects of history. No question was off limits. If the instructor didn't have an answer right then, he went to find the answer and got back to me later. No one tried to pressure me into baptism. If I wasn't ready, I could take my time. They were concerned about me as a person rather than caring about their conversion numbers.

Leaving Mormonism is one of the greatest things that happened in my life (if not the greatest because it led to other great things). I was finally free to choose my own path without feeling guilt. It was not easy and I have suffered greatly in the aftermath of my leaving, but I do not regret it for one second.

I find it amusing that you complained about the "cultish behavior" of so many Mormons. Has it occurred to you that they exhibit cultish behavior because they are in a cult?

I'm glad that you find good service opportunities with the LDS church, but do you think it is the only way? In my parish, there are people who work in prison ministries and go out to feed the homeless. They keep the food bank filled and assist immigrants who need help with immigration paperwork. The good work they do is seemingly endless. There are also plenty of venues to serve and volunteer outside of faith communities.

I recommend coming out for a bit to take a look outside. The world is much more amazing and beautiful than you realize.

Let's call it what it is, rape, when an infinitely more powerful man bends his 16yo housemaid over a hay bale in the barn and has his way with her, that's rape, not a 'dirty, nasty, filthy affair' the way Oliver Cowdery described it.
When an infinitely more powerful man has his way with the wives of 11 of his followers, that's called cuckolding the man by making a concubine out of his wife.
That's horrible. That's unconscionable.
The list goes on, but why go further.
Question is, how can you in good conscience allow your children and future generations to be indoctrinated to believe this serial rapist is now 'mingling with Gods' as some kind of a glorified man?
No other religion makes you do that.
You'd be better off raising your kids to be Muslim.

From another post:

After Leaving Mormonism:
This is my position that creates my New World View: Eccentric Eclectic
Maybe some of you are like me.

I like the best notions/ideas from many old and new sources.
I pick and choose what makes sense to me, what can be validated, repeated, and rely on some simple dictionary definitions.

Everyone is technically -- agnostic according to this definition.
a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable ;

In a broad sense I take this position also.
broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god (I tend to use the term: god as a metaphor.)

Emotional bonding to traditional beliefs, even if thy are weird superstitions overrides logic and reason if one is constantly immersed in talk that is "truth."

Ignorance (lack of knowledge) and superstition require one ignore the questions of an honest skeptic.

About atheism:
Explicit: there are no gods
Implicit a position of non belief in gods due to the lack of evidence.

The default position: non belief in the unsupported theist claim that god exists.

**I am agnostic and take the atheist default position - non belief in the unsupported theist claim of a deity - also, I am part skeptic, part humanist, etc. as defined below**

Those underlying notions in no way deter me from a fulfilled life, filled with fun and laughter, and enjoyment. I am more apt to have a better understanding and able to handle the "bad" times and the ugly behavior of others because I am not relying on a deity to settle the score in some after life.

I am part ----
I am part: AGNOSTIC:
This is safe and the most accurate. To say you are atheist is so politically incorrect, and unacceptable in this day and age that it is suicide to try to run for office, for instance, also, so many people believe that atheism is of the devil that many relationships are cut off before they begin because of this prejudice.

I find that calling myself an agnostic is preferable and works best for my own survival on many levels. Because I live in a predominant Judeo-Christian society (like most of us posting here) to be too far out of it causes more problems that it solves.

I am part SKEPTIC
I want a lot of verifiable information from state of the art sources before I add my allegiance. I do not automatically believe someone because of who they are, what they believe or just because they said so.
I continue to be amazed by my own personal experiences which have led me to believe there is some kind of energy that cannot be created or destroyed that continues.

I am part HUMANIST
American Humanist - "Humanism is a progressive life stance, free of supernaturalism, which affirms our ability and responsibility to lead meaningful, ethical lives that add to the greater good of humanity."
Again, I am not sure about the "supernaturalism" part, because I allow for all possibilities.

I like a some Buddhist notions also - not specified here.

I like a lot of Universal Truths: what's not to like about the Christian teaching (and found elsewhere) "Love One Another."

I'm also a believer in the Golden Rule as in treat people the way you want to be treated.

Forgive everyone, every time, every thing is a goal of mine.

I am also a proponent of all human rights, civil rights, etc.

My World View is still evolving.

I think that about sums it up! :-)

Wow zatarra,

Where to begin? As a quick intro, I am a nevermo, but I did grow up in a One True Church (amazing how many of those there are) and am on this board because I recently acquired Mormon relatives (hence the name).

I am very curious what you mean when you say that you are active LDS and you also say you are a Christian. I'm not challenging you on those statements, just genuinely curious what you mean by 'I am a Christian' in the context of 'I'm active LDS.'

I am also curious about your use of what could be considered mildly foul language. Is this the way you normally talk? Does it indicate anger or frustration? Perhaps directed toward those 'ridiculous people'?

Both you and your wife struggle with church history? So you communicate openly with each other? What issues have you uncovered already and wrestled with? Where do those discoveries and conversations take you? To confusion; to conclusions?

You've already gotten hit in earlier replies for describing Christian churches as having just as many troubling issues and as being no better alternative, so I won't clobber you again on those claims. I'll just say that I experienced what I think might be the same thing: having been indoctrinated into 'believing' that churches other than my OTC were merely a wasteland of error and confusion. So why look to them?

In my own journey, I started asking the difficult questions (inconsistencies) as a teenager but didn't really get serious about it until the age of 28. My exit came two years later.

I experienced the disorientation already described by other posters above, not knowing what to keep and what to throw out. Not daring to trust anyone or anything. Rejecting all messages about transcendence as a ruse for control.

Five years in the wilderness; one year attending an evangelical mega-church (way back before they had morphed into the monstrosities so many of them are today) before converting.

During that one year, my view of the church as being principally an institution was slowly broken down. The message of the personal relationship with Christ took hold.

The purpose of the Christian church is point people to Christ, not to point people to the church, the institution; to be loyal to Him, not to them.

Today I am 20+ years into life with God through Christ with no regrets. On the contrary, I live a life filled with love, and close and deep family relationships. I could never have navigated the hardships of life using the religion of my youth, nor the confusion of my wilderness years.

So to summarize in a way that might benefit you, I came to the conclusion that the OTC of my youth was not true. But I did not come to the conclusion that it was false; rather that it was counterfeit. Huge difference, because it raises the question 'counterfeit of what?'

Of true Christianity, of course. Which can be found in many, many churches. Like C.S. Lewis said in "Mere Christianity", there is a grand hallway of truth with doors opening into the various churches each with its own traditions and style and flavor. (That's a loose paraphrase from the book.)

As others have said, so I repeat: good luck and best of success with your spiritual journey. There is Life outside the Morg, and it is abundant. More than you can imagine; you have to taste.

JAR

"Am I really supposed to consider joining some generic Non-Denominational Church? Catholic? Protestant? etc etc? All of those organizations are going to have just as many troubling issues as the lds church."

You say this as though these churches are somehow beneath you. Maybe that's not how you mean it, but it's how it sounded to me.

It seems like you really don't know much about these churches at all.

Yes, they have issues, all organizations do. But they have nowhere near the issues the LDS church has.

A common phrase used by Mormon leaders is to call any information that isn't church issued or sanctioned "anti-Mormon." That makes me laugh every time I see it. Members are counseled to avoid anti-Mormon thinking or sources like the plague. Even if said sources are peer-reviewed, impeccably researched and well-documented, they are to be avoided. Can you stop and think about that for awhile?

If your religion is true, why shouldn't it stand up to scrutiny? Why shouldn't members be able to ask the hard questions and search for answers by evaluating all the available literature, not just the church-approved material?

If you are researching any issue, do you just look at one side? If you are looking to change your diet, should you only read what PETA says about the value of eating meat? If you are going to buy a car, do you just take the automaker's word for it or do you look at what Consumer Reports has to say? If you are facing major surgery, is it a good idea to get a second opinion? It's called critical thinking and it's a good thing. It's how people make good decisions.

All of those religions you brush off encourage people to research their concerns in whatever manner seems appropriate, not just by reading the party line. My United Methodist pastor used to tell the teenagers that a faith unquestioned was no faith at all. Most religions want potential converts to study a fair amount before joining, and they won't take you unless you do. It's not just a few lessons and then a dunking, with no real idea what you are getting into.

That alone should tell you something about the Mormon church.

I don't know why apostates stop believing in God just because Mormonism is a complete load of crap. I think it's the only way to process what has happened to them. Coming to that realization is psychologically devastating.

If Mormonism works for you, great. It's all about belief. Belief leads to faith and faith leads to many good things. The problem is that some people can't believe in a bunch of lies. They would like to, I would like to, but believing in lies just doesn't work for me. I can't do it.

But, God is no lie. Mormonism has turned God into something she's not. God post-Mormonism is far more beautiful than TSCC's "God in a can".

I don't believe in any god or church anymore. It works for me. It's refreshing to be doing my own thinking now.

You may want to take time off of church just to gather your thoughts. It's hard to think straight on a steady diet of LDS stuff. Spend Sundays doing interesting things with your family. Think about how you would like your spiritual life to be. What do you imagine it SHOULD be like? Maybe even write some things down that you would like to see in your "perfect" church. Stepping back so you can get a different perspective can have a good affect on your mental health.

Maybe you find a different church to attend, or not. You will know your comfort level. And it will change. And it is nothing to be afraid of, no matter the outcome. Once I felt such freedom, there was no going back and I wouldn't trade it for all the "comforting lies" out there.

It's funny how when I took time off of church, I realized how much I hated it. I really, really hated it. Could be because I'm a woman too, was unmarried, not a huge tithe payer. No wonder they harp on attendance so much. Once you find life outside of the church it is very hard to go back to the prison cell.

I'm a never mo but did some extensive searching to try to find my "spiritual home". In my personal case, I decided that I had difficulty with" christian" beliefs so I ended up finding uu to be the most supportive place. If I were going to be christian again, I would look at united Methodist.... Every umc church I am familiar with has community service quietly integrated into its being..... I also like how they tackle "issues" as a denomination.

You will see differences across churches. For example, my uu church has the budget posted on the bulletin board and the congregation meets every year to review last year's spending and approve the upcoming budget....

If you want to stay LDS, that's fine- you get to choose that.... But don't assume all churches are the same as yours .....

It's fun to let go of your beliefs and see where it takes you. It is a journey that takes time.

For me, I am an apatheist. I don't care if there is a god or not, it doesn't affect me. It makes today and now so much more important.

People are able to function and live good, honest, highly productive and fucntional lives, outside of the LDS Church.

Billions of people all over the planet, do so every single day.

I am a lifelong member who became a disbeliever about a year ago when I found out about chuch history problems (summarized well at cesletter.com if you haven't read it already). I did not want to leave because I was afraid of what life would be like outside of the church and quite frankly, I was happy and comfortable as being active. But I didn't believe anymore.

Now, after about 40 years of indoctrination stating: "The LDS church is the one and only true church upon the face of the earth", what would one expect after the obvious conclusion that it is not "true"? Think about that... For me, I am a Christian Agnostic at best, but in reality I now question everything, so I guess that makes me a reluctant atheist. But it's fine... I just roll with life wherever it takes me. I'm still the same person as when I was active.

The nice thing about leaving is that your mind is finally at rest. You can be who you want to be. You don't have to change who you are otherwise. You may not believe me, but my immediate family (who all left with me) is so much closer because of this. I enjoy being so less stressed out and not spending so much of my time in callings or at church. I can spend my 10% as I want... If I want to donate it, I can or I can put it away for my kids' college fund, etc.

Best wishes wherever your journey may take you... But just remember to choose the right (whatever it is for you) and let the consequence follow.

These aren't my words so I can't take credit, but this is how I feel. From another poster: I don't have to replace my belief system with anything. If I find evidence to convince me that there is no longer a lock ness monster, I don't feel any obligation to search for another mysterious sea creature in some ocean to put my beliefs into. I just simply stop believing.

Ever since I came to the realization that the church is just another religion, I simply stopped believing. Everything thing else in the world that I believe in never changed. I still believe in people, love, friendships and so on. But I haven't taken on any "new" beliefs.

"Above all else, I believe in God and I am a Christian."

You are but a toddler on your journey out of mormonism, you may be surprised where the rabbit hole leads.

When I left Mormonism I spent a few years believing in nothing. God was this big, impersonal monster behind closed doors guarded by an army of old white men who you'd have to special-handshake your way through to get the keys to the doors. Who knew who was behind the doors? So much of your life was focused on how to best please the strict hierarchy of men on this Earth and that God did not speak into your life except through the mouthpiece of the prophet -- how could you ever have a personal relationship with God? It was easy to forget God when I left the church.

I ended up finding my home in a non-denominational Christian church (well, a couple of them as I moved between towns). I was very reluctant to believe that I could have a relationship with God since he was still very much this forgotten figure -- strip away the prophets and the priesthood and the keys and the fancy buildings and there's not much left... But as I started to see how people who had this relationship lived, how they helped and supported one another and enjoyed life regardless of their circumstances I began to get it.

I guess if you want to compare Mormonism to (what I've found to be) a typical non-denominational church, imagine...

1) Having your own, personal relationship with God that you have access to at any time and any circumstance without a wall of suits and ties in front of you

2) Tithing because YOU want to - giving your hard-earned money freely to a worthy cause of YOUR choosing, free of tithing settlements and paperwork, and no guilt or repercussions if you can't or don't do it in a given timeframe

3) Involvement at YOUR pace - no callings being pushed on you, you can be as involved or un-involved in "extracirricular" activities as you want or as time allows -- and if you are too busy some week or want to take a weekend outing that lasts til Monday, there's no judgement and no guilt.

4) Freedom to leave - knowing that God's love and Christ's presence do not exist to service a single denomination but that there are hundreds of churches with different pastors and different styles you can try until you find a good fit.

5) Blessings, comfort, and fellowship that come for free - as opposed to those that can be taken away from you if you don't pay up.

6) When you have doubts or questions - you are encouraged to follow them instead of bury them. Both pastors of churches I've gone to were very open, friendly, and supportive when I've brought my doubts and issues up, and freely admitted that they don't have all the answers.

Those are just a few examples. It was easy for me to associate God with the hierarchy, the doctrine, and the rules -- take all that away and there was no God left. Once I started to realize how happy you could be without all that clutter I began to find God again as a totally new figure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 12:25PM by electricliahona.

Myself, I'm a Buddhist. I definitely support organized relgion. As a society, we are making great strides in getting ourselves, personally, sorted out. We have a long way to go in getting our social, group-selves functioning in a healthy way. Therefore, our societies have an unacceptable level of sickness. And we've barely begun tackling our relationship with the environment. I do think organizing a religion, Christianity included, can contribute. But not unless it sorts out its teachings. And myth and miracle is for a long-past age, not our own.

Now Mormonism. It's impossible for you to grasp this, because people cannot know what they do not know, but there is nothing in Mormonism that isn't stolen, or, as another poster put it, counterfeit. You really can't understand that. Former mormons are well-aware they've been lied to, and taught junk. However, it's far harder to appriciate the opportunity costs of spending your youth searching after junk. Others have spent the same time building treasure. You claim other Christian religions have got the same problems Mormonism does, but that cannot be true.

JS, the founder, was an ignorant, superstitious, country rube, and craven to boot. He was not these things only by our modern standards; he was those things under the standards of his own day. He wrote a book composed of a hodge-podge of current, standard-issue, country-bumpkin, burned-over-district, popular ideas (the ground under our very feet is the promised land! The Indians we just found are the Lost Tribes!). It's the self-reverence of a very brutal but optomistic time. But there's no great religious or spiritual innovation in it. It's pedestrian and borrowed. The BoM was designed to be a popular novel, like a pirate adventure, but it didn't sell.

But the ambitious JS, and his cronies, began pulling more ideas together, borrowing from the local utopian societies, like the Oneidas, borrowing from the Masons, adding folk-health (no tobacco, alcohol, or tea), the interest in the occult and antiquities (mummies), and other derivitive folkiness to put together a following--that was really a for-profit enterprise. Many of the Mormonism's followers were clearly interested in religious innovation. JS and his inner circle were clearly in it for what riches and power they could amass.

BY took the thing to an empty square of unsettled America, and created a for-profit despotism. So far, no great religion. Even today, the leadership is chosen from among successful businessmen--these are people who have experience in generating profit, not spiritual anything. From the standpoint of "other churches" this leads to an insuperable amount of spiritual error, in every degree, whether knowledge about the nature of god, ability to counsel, treatment of sensitive, confidential subjects, even contemporary standards of charitable service. Mormonism falls down in every catagory.

The only way that Mormonism could be saved from the ignorance of its original leaders and the worldliness of the current ones is by outside influence. That is, God's leading the church personally. That simply isn't true. Therefore the church flounders all on its own--borrowing concepts from others. Right now, they're aligning themselves with Christian fundies against the LGBT community--a short-sighted, doomed proposition.

Things you say point this out. As mentioned before, you don't like how cultishly fellow-ward members behave. But they're in a cult. You can't disagree with anyone in authority. This is a level of tyranny that's unamerican, much less universally spiritual. You had to quit a calling (what passes for "service to your fellow man" in Mormonsim) because you had to work with so many jerks. What is Mormonism doing to provide all of you with a spiritual practice that reduces your jerkiness--because if you think others, with whom you work in serving your God, are jerks, that, by definition, makes you the jerk that they're all stuck with. "Who is that arrogant dick who looks down on us all the time." If all of you are irrovocable dicks, you can only be engaged in pissing contests (or worse). And what convinces you that other churches--not devoted to profit-making agribusiness in South America--haven't come further in resolving these issues?

In short, Mormonism doesn't get truer by your thinking that other people's problems are just as bad or worse.

If you think that there are no better alternatives to Mormonism, you don't really want my opinion. Don't ask and I won't tell.

I find no plausible reason to subscribe to the notion that there is an entity that is to be feared, revered and worshipped. Nor is there a 'person', energy, spirit or whatever that created us, the planet, the solar system, the cosmos and so on. I don't know from whence it all came, but it was a long time ago, apparently and isn't that important to worry about.

I cannot say one way or another what happens after death, but common sense leads me toward the conclusion that when you die, that's it.

There is much in the universe that remains unknown. I am willing to change my mind in a heartbeat, if there is some discovery that comes along and is provably counter to what my mind embraces at this moment.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 01:24PM by csuprovograd.

Learn and 'experience' Spiritism.

It doesn't take a lot of smarts to see today's Christianity and religion in general is clearly not of God ----- it is pure bondage which governments/would be dictators, some sincere bible believers, and scam artists definitely want! You have to say or believe or live or pay or etc. etc. or you will go to hell!!! What a Joke!! These people are in bondage and do everything 'religious' out of pure fear of going to hell!

Spiritism is not a religion and does not require anyone to do anything to make 'heaven' or the next life. We are eternal beings we die and go to heaven/spirit world it is that simple. There is some progression and fairness that is why reincarnation of the soul is important ---- we are talking hundreds of lives so don't get so crazy saying because someone had 1 rotten life God is not fair. There is a God. Prayer and Meditation do work! You don't have to just believe, in fact, I don't consider anyone a spiritist that has not had numerous (hundreds) of spirit experiences (see future/premonitions, have past life memories, have communicated with spirit guides, etc.). I don't know any other Spiritists but have only read about others with this type of knowledge.

Good luck ------ you can choose bondage without God truth, (no bondage w/o God truth (atheist) or truth about God and the after life!