I've been around for quite some time. I'm not the kind to believe blindly without a strong feeling. Something wasn't sitting well, butI couldn't put my finger on it. I came here knowing people would be angry and tell me the worst of the religion. In a highly LDS area I thought I'd seen it all. I've been alongside the devout and the ones who left. Unfortunately, the handful I know who left have gone on to become alcoholics, pro-porn,promiscuous,anti white instead of pro every culture, and generally resistant to anything of decency just because the church has some good traditional moral codes.


I saw some of that here, but I also got some genuinely well meaning insight. Honestly, it was less those scaring me off directly and more the posts I read about the mother leaving her son in the wilderness when he spoke of not going on his mission, the stories if people cutting of loved ones upon leaving.The thought of answering to another human regarding my personal life because he's " a bishop" was the initial turn off. One of the most disturbing threads involved people speaking of how they were made to feel inadequate and would seek out the church to help only to be knocked down again...it sounded like an abusive relationship with a deranged narcissist. It hurt to read. I listened to the prophets speak, and to me much of their words were common sense.thoughts and actions anyone with a moral compass and cautious way would have. Some of their words were extreme and it freaked me out that people act in their words without pondering. What scared the life out of me most was watching in horror those temple rituals. What on earth is that about? Indon't want to know, but I suspect people enjoy it because they've been brainwashed to equate it with something sacred. I can hold to my traditional beliefs without associating with a bunch of hurt people who feign joy (or feel it because they lie to themselves and stuff down their true emotions in an effort to appear pious and blessed). Another thing, that tatooed Mormon, she's a cute girl but so clearly brainwashed it's frightening. Wishing all of you, even those who don't agree with my beliefs, the best. Wow...

Your posts are very off putting. I cant even really putmy fingeron it.

I would take the time to write out a proper response, but I am too drunk at the moment as an exmo.

I for one think you should join the mormon church. You are obviously superior in your morals and seem to have a knack for judging others. You are a perfect candidate and should fit right in.

No name, do you not see that are judging me. Now that's ironic! I choose not to immerse myself in certain scenes because of my own observations and experiences. I don't prevent others from having the freedom to do so. I cannot help it that the people WE know left the church and fell apart. Never was it implied that was everyone. I came here for lack of acceptable input from people who've left the chuch because I wouldn't trust tbeir judgements given the ways they've messed up their own livss. Back off, you're not going to change me with your self satisfied arguments. I've indulged you with this response, but know that I owe you nothing. Anyone who wants to behave like NO Name. Please refer to this post.

I am glad you were able to receive the information you needed to make the decision that is right for you.

Too many enter Mormonism based on seeing a neighbor or a missionary and never see the reality until after baptism.

Good luck

Thank you, heartless, (and anyone else wishing well or who helped)!

Now to complete your thought exercise, if you dare, just ponder the mind**** from being brainwashed in this stuff from birth

Jaelle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow...

Believe me I have done so. It HAS to stunt something within.

Glad you were scared straight too.. You mention the word WE in your second post. Does your family-spouse, children- share the same opinion despite living an a highly LDS area? The flower show of spirituality that is initially seen eventually bares the thorns that ensnare and enslave. It has to or it can't keep running. Your challenge of avoidance will not be a one time trial...

Gatorman
Ensnared in 1973 and it took this long to untangle

Well my husband is atheist, but he had entertained joining me for support even though he finds the golden plates and such "xxxxxxx ridiculous". Flower show....hmmm, good description.

You wouldn't want to belong to a group that despises atheists. It would get weird with them always wanting to convert your Atheist hubby and making you feel like some kind of widow.

It would get beyond weird, invasive. It's one thing if they don't agree with him, but to put pressure on him to change???? No way would either of us have accepted that pressure.

Jaelle, one thing to note is that being born into the church means you were conditioned every day, and every hour on Sunday into a hierarchical authoritative order of guilt, fear and total way of life, a culture that is part of one's DNA. When a person finally looks behind the curtain and discovers their entire belief, identity, and church / friends are all based on lies, fraud, deceit..the result is too much for many. That is something only a BIC member can truly understand. I am glad you found out now instead of YOUR children later. Thank you for stepping forward.

Sorry if you've been through this. It's got to be difficult to not only be guilted perpetually, being expected to donate hours on end and participate in extreme adherence to the church's every whim, and told what to think abd feel in any given situation, but the fact anyone pays to do this is absurd.

I have met many hundreds of ex-Mormons over the past 20+ years. I have not experienced "alcoholics, pro-porn, promiscuous, anti white instead of pro every culture, and generally resistant to anything of decency just because the church has some good traditional moral codes." Where are these people you commented on? Ex-Mormons are human and we all have our foibles. Those who had been true believers I have found were humbled by their Mormon experience as they opened their eyes to the facts of the fraud. They discovered or rediscovered their humanity. They learned how we can be manipulated by feelings. They are using the tools they used in uncovering truth and applying it other areas of their lives. They are some of the most compassionate people I have ever met. Those who were cruelly treated by the church and its members certainly have a right to be angry. I am sure there are those you mention, but they are in the minority.

This.^^^. For sure. My experience exactly.

One of the most disturbing things to me is Mormon authorities (I think I recall Oaks doing it), talking about the appropriate amount of shunning to do in order to bring an inactive loved one back into line.

Mormons often engage in black-and-white thinking. For instance, either you abstain from alcohol, or you are an "alcoholic." You refrain completely from sex before marriage, or you are "promiscuous." I hope that is a trap that you will not fall into. It's okay to hold on to certain beliefs, but please realize that the world is a far more nuanced place than that. Most people, including exmos, lead perfectly ordinary lives. They go to work, they come home. They marry and raise families. They pursue hobbies and do volunteer work. You may not agree with every decision that they make, but they may generally be viewed as upstanding, contributing members of the community.

It might interest you to know that Utah has one of the highest rates of participation on porn subscription sites. So beneath the pretty exterior is often a not so pretty reality. The state also has a very high rate of prescription anti-depressant use (so much for "happy families,") and a very high plastic surgery rate (I guess they value pretty people.)

I don't know that you will ever find a perfect match of church or community group for you and your values, but hopefully you will find people of good will who are warm, loving, and accepting. Good luck on your journey.

I haven't fallen into the black and white trap. Let me explain. I know plenty of people who have wine with dinner or a few beers on the weekend. It happened to be the ezmormons i know (There are only three of them-three people), are drunk often. I also know people who've had premarital sex (me included!), two of the ez mormons of that three sleep around including with other people's husbands. I'm aware ic Utah's porn issues,and not surprised; that's what happens when you forbid something as natural as masturbation, your son will seek out porn. The third person I know is a male who often gets drunk and has recently been fired for on the job gambling.i can't help this is what I've seen! I didn't realize until researching just how extreme the church was. Funny you mention plastic surgery, almost every lds woman I know is pretty with obviously bleached teeth...thanks for your input

Here's a piece of advice for you...

Never, ever make assumptions regarding a community at large based on your personal observations. That sample size is far too small, and you are far too susceptible to bias.

Research is your friend. Coming here was a good move.

Personally I'd rather spend time with the alcoholic fornicators than the hypocrites you describe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2017 02:59PM by siobhan.

In the end, it's all about love. Hopefully you can find that in yourself and relationships. Just be you. Just love. Nothing to prove. A way to live. Molon labe...

(Maybe it's too early in the morning for me to have good reading comprehension.)

I read your post a couple of times and then searched your other posts to try to figure out ...

... just what you want.

I still don't know.

Me too. It's not too early in the morning, it just isn't clear. Very hard for me to put it in a positive light. Don't know what she's after.

Investigation is never complete. Mormonism is jus the tip of the iceberg.

Keep investigating and be ready to change your mind about other things as facts arise. Question yourself and examine to see if you are cherry picking facts to support your conclusions. Go where the facts lead. I've had to change my views a few times.

Detective skills gained from investigating Mormonism are valuable far beyond Mormonism.

I am a nevermo and I agree completely with Erik K and I would hope you avail yourself of several readings of his post. I am confused as to what you are wanting/needing from your post. Were you considering joining the Mormon church but have changed your mind since doing some reading on this board? If so, I'm happy that doing so saved you from joining LDS,Inc. Best of luck to you in finding whatever it is you're searching for :)

Yes, Cinda, this board was a piece of what turned me away from wanting to go LDS. I understand the confusion of some readers. I was looking for a like minded community. I have been feeling confused myself as to where to go. I suppose that's evident.

Maybe you've lived in a predominantly conservative Mormon community?

Having grown up in one myself, I observed first hand how those LDS who rebelled did become druggies, alcoholics, crime, etc as a result of having been LDS.

Where I lived in Ogden, Utah my junior year of high school the crime rate was one of the top ten in the nation. My senior year I'd moved to the West Coast, where I was employed by a police department where right inside a police training manual was a description of Ogden and its high crime rate, with a sociologist interpretation as to why it was that way.

It was because of the polarization between the Mormons and non-Mormons (non-Mormons could include ex or inactive LDS.)

The manual compared the polarizing effect between the Mormons as to how perfect and good they strived to be. So when something gives, in order to balance that excess the opposition goes the other extreme.

That was why, according to the police training manual, the crime rate was as high as it was in Ogden. I had no reason to doubt it, having moved away that past summer. My next door neighbor burglarized my mother's house twice after I moved out, and later that same year murdered a hotel clerk in cold blood for a few dollars (he stabbed him 44 times.) That was just on the street where I lived.

It was bad when I lived there. Much of that negativity was in direct proportion to the polarizing effect of Mormonism.

Over-conformity creates under-conformity in such communities. Moderation is not something people understand as well as being extremist one way or the other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2017 01:36PM by Amyjo.

If you find a cockroach in your ice-cream, do you just eat around it saying "mmm . . .Yum" occasionally? Or, is the experience just ruined because even though you haven't touched the cockroach part, they are still there. Even if you picked them out, there is no way to enjoy the ice-cream unless you are a bird who likes insects.

I wish the worst of what is wrong with Mormonism was as benign as cockroaches. But it is much more insidious. Yet, oddly enough, there are plenty of people who like the bigotry it has to offer. Maybe you should consider that instead of focusing on the alcoholics, porn, and promiscuity of others.

So glad you've come to your senses and that our posts have helped.

I can relate to some of what you feel you've experienced with ex-Mos but I think that only applies to those newly out who are finally getting a bit of freedom, it can certainly go too far at first, somewhat like rebellious teens. But after some time us ex's get our footing and start to figure things out and I think we really are some of the most incredible people you'll meet because we've survived something truly awful and have had to deprogram and find a way to reclaim our lives and our sense of self worth after all of the years of control and put downs. And yes we grow up thinking in extremes of black and white. I remember being shocked by some of what I saw in Provo and Salt Lake, esp. at club in Salt Lake, so much extremism, never encountered that in cities back east, not even in New York where I lived for some time after going to BYU. But I understood it, knowing what Mormons go through and often when some of them first leave they feel that if they are not 'good' since they couldn't stay LDS, they must be 'bad' so they act out in ways they think are 'bad' because they think that is what they must be. In extreme cases they become Satanists or Vampires, etc.

But I don't know how much of that is just part of people trying to figure things out, doubt it's very long lived for most. And there are a lot of porn addicts WITHIN the LDS 'church' and addicts of all kinds because again the thinking is so warped and extremist, it's hard to get balance.

There is one thing, to be honest that has worried me about your posts, .. in your first thread when letting us know you were interested in Mormonism, you actually said that something along the lines that it 'must be right' for you if you still felt strongly (positive) about it in the face of all of our warnings.

And then in this post here (the original one) you wrote
"I'm not the kind to believe blindly without a strong feeling"

To me by definition those who go along with something purely faith based (i.e. feeling based) in the face of all of the facts against it IS believing blindly and is dangerous and exactly how and why the Mormon cult (and others like it) is able to gain followers at all. And you actually say you won't believe blindly 'without a strong feeling' how does that make you different from anyone else believe 'blindly'.. to believe blindly IS to have had 'STRONG feeling' about something, and to JUST go by your feeling. letting feeling dictate untampered by reason and logic is a problem and could be one for you as it has been for many of us.

Fortunately it sounds like you are NOT going to allow yourself to be mislead like that. And as you can see your feelings changed after you got the information you needed. Feelings are influenced in many ways so they are not always something we can trust, esp. when they have been manipulated. And this is what Mormons, and esp. Mormon missionaries learn, it's how to manipulate feelings. So they tell you just to go by how you feel and not to let 'negative' thoughts (doubts) 'cloud' those feelings when they themselves have already been clouding your feelings with false information.

So in defense of 'No Name' I think she/he may have been picking up on what I did, which was that it sounded like you might be one to ask all of these questions of us, get all of our answers (some very personal difficult stories to tell) and yet still go with the 'feeling' you were having to go ahead and join because you liked certain ideas that had been presented to you. And you still let you know if you DID FEEL strongly still that you would 'blindly believe' in something if you felt that way, that you don't actually have a problem with 'blindly believing'.. and of course it does sound like you have pretty negative opinions about 'Ex-Mos' and it does seem judgmental. We have gone through a lot and many of us have struggled with different things along the way, some of them might have been addictions, maybe we are still struggling, but so what? Are we supposed to be perfect? is that what attracted you to Mormonism in the first place, everyone seemed perfect?

So then it sounds like the 'ex-Mos' are the bad lot and so maybe you would have not taken what we were saying seriously because you are thinking we all have chips on our shoulders so our info is too biased or possibly inaccurate. But we are just being real and uncensored and clearly it's helped you, and I am personally glad for that. But you may want to do some self reflection as you seem like you still could end up getting yourself into trouble (i.e. being indoctrinated) with the kind of attitude you've presented.

Best of luck to you

S

Vampires? Wow. When I speak of blind beliefs and feelings doubts are feelings, too. I came here because in addition to my curiosity and agreement with LDS traditional stances and pure living I had a feeling I needed to explore the other side. I would never allow a missionary who has an incentive to convert me to tell me to ignore all of my doubts that seems insanely foolish, doubts and twinges of discomfort are feelings as well.They exist for a reason! I appreciate your input. As for ex mormons i know and the ones another poster mentioned above, I understand one extreme often gives birth to another. Thanks.

and not as you describe.

I can't agree that what people say about the mormon church is purely based on some kind of inner negativity. Some people have good experiences in mormonism and others do not. I think they usually relate their stories with accuracy.

Most exmormons are kind, polite and reasonable. Some of them are angry which is the reaction normal people have to being mistreated.

Many churches nurture and strive to bring out the best in their attendees. Mormons think this is what they do, but sadly the system works against it.

I'm proud of exmos who have the courage to leave mormonism and who take on the responsibility of recovering from cultism. They deserve respect and support. I object to anyone claiming some of them should demean others in their recovery.

It's probably good you're not joining this church or you might eventually be forced to write of the time you spent there and use much of you remaining life recovering.