My girlfriend and I started dating last summer. We are both returned missionaries, but I hadn't really been going to church for a while. She didn't know this though. It was long distance so we only saw each other on the weekends when she would come to town. When she came on the weekends we would basically just hang out all weekend and not go to church. It was awesome. Despite going on a mission she told me about how she had done some wrong things in her life and she didn't hold a current temple recommend because she had drank beer a few times since her mission.

So things got more and more serious. She would come on the weekends and we would hang out the whole weekend. She started sleeping over at my apartment in my bed. It was awesome! Needless to say we went further than what the Strength of Youth would recommend. Quite a bit further. But, both of us talked multiple times about how we didn't feel bad about it and we loved it.

She moved here recently and things have gotten more serious. We are in love and she wants to get married. I would love to marry this girl. She is perfect for me. The only thing is that now she says she wants to start following the law of chastity and get married in the temple. I feel like I have to tell her about how I feel about the church, but I'm not really sure how.

I love this girl and am torn because I don't want us to break up over me not believing in the church. The confusing thing is that while I don't believe in the church, I would feel bad if she left because of me and was judged by all her friends and family. Anyway, any thoughts and advice would be very appreciated because I have no one to talk to.

Welcome to the mindfuck my friend.

Seriously though, better to do it now prior to a marriage than with 2 kids in tow.

"I think that the church is a fraud."

That simple. Do it now and save yourself mucho pain later on.

I was RM and we both believed when we married. Now the rift in belief is more than I think our relationship can bear. She has become an even more strident follower of all things LDS with my disaffection and it's no fun.

From my expereince LDS women often become more devout after having kids. I nkow that's a generalization but Ilve seen it a lot. My guess is the chances of your GF leaving after marriage and kids will actually go down. At least talk openly about it now because from what I've seen it only gets harder. My advice would be to think long and hard about marrying someone who is invested in Mormonism. You'll always be #2...or #3....or #4.......

As the old saying goes, "Better to not be married than wish you weren't." Good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 06:29PM by badseed.

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

This one seems to be getting the most traction with women. I would start with the essay direct of their website and then go here and look at what they DIDN'T say
http://mormonthink.com/essays-plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo.htm

Tell her the whole, unadulterated truth. She might be hurt. You might get hurt. If you put this off, the odds are astounding that you WILL get hurt.

I'm so sorry you have to face this, but you will survive.

I wish you the best.

The human mind... Frick'n amazing.

She's an RM, who has committed a HORRIBLE sin, and been enjoying it. On her mission she met lots of people like that and if there was a chance of baptizing them, she just told them to get chaste for a couple of weeks, or get married, and they could get baptized.

It's not going to be the same for the two of you. If she follows the proper route of repentance, you both have to talk to your bishops. Disfellowship would seem to me to be the minimum penalty for the both of you. I don't think she's thinking about it. And you might be told you have to be clean for a year. A year without sex, and supposedly without masturbation!!

oh yeah, time for the truth. Just tell her that you love her and that you loved the sex and you're happy that unlike the normal course of RM love and marriage, you guys can be sure you're compatible and then tell her that all the anti stuff she heard on the mission is true. Or Twooo!

It's a fact that the mormon church is bereft of truth and any semblance of a direct connection with ghawd. Get her to see this. Better she should run screaming from your apostate self now than later. You obviously have seen how being yoked to a TBM can be trying; you ought not to volunteer for such duty.

Have fun as long as you can.

I agree that you should tell her the truth. If she breaks up with you over this, then you know she wasn't that into you in the first place. It's still better than going through a divorce, especially if there are any children.

Speaking from experience, you should tell her ASAP... no joke.

The longer you wait the worse it will be for both of you... She deserves to know who she is dating and be able to form realistic expectations. You deserve to live your life without pretense or hypocrisy.


Worst case: She is a jack-mo who was having fun and breaks up with you. Had you waited she would have divorced you later.

Best case: She is a doubter and is struggling to let go of the "happily ever after" temple marriage she has envisioned her whole life.


Regardless of what happens please let us know how it turns out... best of luck.

I'm happy to say I got lucky that my then-girlfriend, who was a recent RM and who I guessed wouldn't be happy with me having left the church, decided she didn't believe it. Already had doubts, spent not long on the internet and that was that. She asked to be released from her calling teaching youth and stopped going. It happens!

That comes after 3 relationships of varying progress completely flunking out for her being Mormon and not me.

Sadly, many young men have had to deal with this exact situation. I'm afraid to say it often ends with both young people feeling used and abused.

Tell her quickly is my advice and deal with whatever happens. The longer you wait, the worse it will be.

Good luck.

Ask her: Do you love me more than the church, or do you love the church more than me?

If the latter, you have no chance. Cut your losses. Better to find out now.

If the former, remind her that a temple wedding's off the table. Then if she breaks it off, she wasn't telling the truth.

Given that your relationship has not been a by-the-book affair, I highly doubt your revelation of disbelief will be all that shocking. Disappointing, maybe, but not shocking.

You both need to put your truest thoughts and feelings about this on the table now before making a decision with long-ranging impact.

She doesn't sound all that "TBM" now.
I'd bet real money she's at least doubting, and probably more.
Start your relationship off right -- be honest.
You may just find she's oh so relieved to find out she's not the only one who's given up on it :)

"She wants to start following the law of chastity"

Well, if that means starting immediately then you have to respect that decision. Either that or go all Joseph Smith on her.

But if it means not just yet but as part of a clean up your act thing, then you have the basis for a discussion about living an authentic life.

"She's perfect for me."

That's the romance talking. Take a step back son, your heart is running away from your head.

JAR

Ah, just yank that band-aid off quickly, in one fluid motion. It'll hurt for a second, then she'll get over it.

This is from the modern mormon girl's playbook. Have seen this happen over and over recently. Possibly because the ratio is 3 women to 1 man in the young single adult wards and what is there doesn't look too good.
YSA females want to find a "bad boy" to turn temple righteous.
Repentance is easy if the couple says temple marriage to the bishop.
It's like a mormon girl fantasy.
Good luck and be careful. Don't get pregnant.
Don't get played.

You also might want to read the following link yourself, and then share it with your girlfriend. Wanting a temple wedding may seem romantic, but the reality is something else, altogether.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,431473,432803#msg-432803

I know you are worried about being responsible for her hearing the truth, but if she doesn't want to believe its all a lie, she won't.

The truth will set you free.

You need to have a very plain conversation with her. She needs to come to a point of view re issues like those raised in the essay's and CES Letter and tell you where she stands on them and you likewise.

Your interest, which you should clearly state, is that everything you've heard and seen is that differences in belief - particularly when Mormonism is in the mix - tears up marriages and families. That it would be naive and arrogant to think that your marriage would be immune to this possibility. Make it a genuine discussion that is not about changing her mind. Rather, it is to come to an understanding together of where each other are at.

If you cannot manage to have this serious conversation about something that will have a material effect on you marriage before you are married you will not be able to handle this or the other hard stuff of life in any sort of functional way after marriage. This conversation should take you several weeks and be extremily difficult at times -- otherwise you are not really having it.

If you and her are not of one mind re TSCC leave the relationship immediately. It is not fair to either of you to stay in it.

The truth will set you free - free to live a good life together or if needs be to freely go your separate ways.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 10:41PM by mannaz.

Does your girlfriend want a temple marriage because that's what SHE wants, or because it's what her family wants for her?

The answer to that question might determine how committed she actually is to the church. She might not be very committed at all, but feels like she needs to play along and marry in the temple to please her family. If a temple marriage is what she wants, then you might have a problem.

I agree with the other advice. Honesty is the best policy. Just tell her you don't believe.

Dood, 7-8 months and you two haven't talked about da church?

What? I can't believe you two RM's got THAT close and haven't talked about your "testimonies"!

Boggles da mind, brah...

If this is for real, get it together and DO IT NOW!

sheesh...

There are some (potentially) uncomfortable subjects that must eventually come up between couples, and religion is one of them. It is time to put your cards on the table. You've been living the romantic fantasy, now it's time for reality.

Here are some potential topics for you to consider:

I don't believe that the church is true.
I won't get married in the temple.
I do not wish to raise my future children in the church.
I think that the intimate relations we've been having with each other are natural and normal. I don't think that what we've been doing is the business of anyone but ourselves. It *certainly* isn't the business of any church.

If you can't raise uncomfortable topics with your girlfriend, then you are not ready to be married. And yes, it is possible that a breakup may be in your future. You both need to negotiate a solution for many different things, and religion is one of them. It will not go away because you wish to ignore it. And the Mormon church tends to encourage a "my way or the highway" attitude, so don't be surprised if this conversation doesn't go well.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you can't raise uncomfortable topics with your
> girlfriend, then you are not ready to be married.

This. I have a rule of thumb: don't get engaged until you've been together at least 12 months and at least one major conflict. You need to know who your partner is in a variety of situations, and you *definitely* need to know how the two of you with together in resolving conflict (and avoidance isn't an approach you can use for very long).

I am so jealous of you. You have the chance to get this over with right now. Either she sees it for what it is or she doesn't. And every one can move on. No harm no foul. Sucks to have to have the conversation but so easy in comparison to 15 years down the road with four kids in tow.

You need to tell her that regardless of whatever does or does not happen with either or both of you involving the church, that the only marriage/relationship that you want is to put eachother first. Tell her up front that she will always come before the church and that you require the same from her. If she does not agree right away without a lot of thought about it, you've got a big problem. Run the other way. If she agrees like 'of course that's how it has to be', then ask if she could spend her life with you as a non-member. If she can't agree, you're better off without her. Convincing your heart about that is another issue. But you'll have your answer.

All of the above advice is excellent but I must re-iterate; if you haven't been using contraception and your physical relationship is ongoing, start now!! You did not say how long ago you returned from your mission but I'm thinking you must both be quite young. A pregnancy now would only complicate things more and make the conversations you need to have even harder. Be careful! Some young women have even been known to lie about their use of reliable contraception, then "accidentally" become pregnant. Remember that pregnancy is not a good enough reason to marry; a good marriage is built on love and trust and should not be rushed into for sex or pregnancy especially if the pregnancy was coerced or deceitful. Be responsible. Be brave. Speak truth to your love, be yourself now so you can live your life on your terms with or without her. You will be okay.

Just man up! Tell her how you feel. You may be surprised. She may have similar feelings. Are you ready to come out on this topic truthfully?

You have to disclose, up front--preferably before things go any farther--where you stand. She is a thinking, autonomous person who has a right to make decisions based on the truth. It's not just about what you want, and what you should do about that. If you love her and respect her right to make decisions about what's best for herself, there is no other thing you can do that has any integrity about it.

Find new girlfriend.

Tell her honestly that you do not have enough/or any belief in the religion to play the "repentance" game to go to the temple.
If that is the only thing she wants, she has to find someone else.

Wow thanks guys! A lot of responses. Well we talked last night. I told her I don't believe any of what the church says except maybe that there's a God. She then said she feels the same way. She said she hated her mission and figured if she didn't believe after that she never would. She also said she never wore her garments until she met me, then she started wearing them so I would think she is good.

The only thing now is she is very torn about not getting married in the temple. She says she can't imagine not marrying me, but she also can't imagine not getting married in the temple. She wants to get married in the temple because that's what she's always imagined. She also says her parents and friends won't come to the wedding if she doesn't get married in the temple. Her older sister originally wasn't going to get married in the temple and her Dad said he wasn't going, but eventually her sister decided to get married in the temple. She says she imagined us getting married in the temple and then just to start missing church and not go back after.

She was kind of going back and forth. She would say "of course I have to marry you and it's crazy to get married in somewhere I don't believe in". But then later she would say "I just can't not get married there, no one will come and I'll be a disappointment." She said she's very happy I don't believe and she's excited to not wear garments.

Anyway, I'm not to sure of where to go from here. She's gone home and we're both going to think about things for a while alone. Other people's opinions are very important to her and I really would feel terrible if no one showed up to her wedding. And people wonder why they call us a cult!

It is ironic that she is worried that her family will choose not to attend a non-temple wedding, when the church has made it impossible to attend for so many who want to be there when their family member or friend to get married.

I think you should just reiterate that you are NOT getting married in the temple, so that she will have to come to some kind of decision about whether or not she wishes to marry you. Under the circumstances, a destination wedding might be just the thing. Get married on the beach in Hawaii and post your wedding pics to Facebook.

Plus, if her parents and friends refuse to attend, the only proper answer is, "We're sorry you won't be able to join us." I don't have any patience with adult tantrum-throwers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2015 03:03PM by summer.

eferteen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Where to go from here? I'll make a suggestion. Both of you review what really goes on in the temple then she may reconsider!

First go to D&C 132
and read about the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is --- it's plurality of wives, it's the same covenant for marriage in every single temple in the world.

Then do a Google Search on the temple ceremony. There are a lot of places to find more info.

Know what you are doing when getting married in the temple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2015 03:14PM by SusieQ#1.

Congrats! It sounds like the conversation went really well. My advice is to take some time to think this out carefully. If your girlfriend wants to get married in the temple, then to me it just seems to kick the can down the road further. People will be disappointed in you at the time you leave the church anyway. But it's a personal decision... You guys could fake it and get married there and just leave after that if it's that important. My two cents... I'm sure others may disagree. I know in my case, both my wife and I would have preferred a traditional marriage where all of our friends and family could participate. Something to think about.

Start dropping hints about some 'stuff' you found on the internet that has caused you to have some doubts. If she will take the bait and examine some things herself, there is a SMALL chance that she will see the light and follow the same path as you. If that doesn't work, get out of the relationship, because following it further will only bring you grief and lamentation.

"...now she says she wants to start following the law of chastity and get married..."

is sex important to you in a relationship? is it important to you in a marriage? if so then you should really think about what she is saying to you right now...

if she really doesn't believe in Mormonism but wants to get married in the temple purely for social reasons then she would keep having sex with you without any reservations and just lie to get the temple recommend

she is telling you with her actions what is most important to her right now - and it's not her physical relationship with you

my advice is to stop talking about marriage and just see what happens as the two of you start being more and more public with your non-belief - to put it bluntly: don't go ring shopping until her family knows 100% that she doesn't believe - there are Mormon girls out there that will play the bad girl right up until the birth of their first baby and then snap right back into Mormon formation...

This is her chance to show you what she's really made of. Will she seek out and embrace the truth, and go through this recovery process with you? Because if so, she's the one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2015 03:30PM by bradley.

Is she aware that the promises you make in a temple wedding are to the church and not to each other?

I did not read all the responses, but the way to tell her is:

" I do not believe, I never will, and here are the reasons. I love you very much but I am not willing to live a life full of wasted time and lies because of a dishonest institution that programmed us from a young age. I would love it if we could continue our journey together, but not if you think there is the slightest chance of me returning."