The Jesus, I do. The golden plates, not so much. I always thought the golden plates story was a crock. I must say, however, that my upbringing in the church, has totally ruined my life.
It's because the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I can never love anyone or get married or raise children.
You can, you can, say some.
It's too late.
Mormonism ruined my life.
So there.

Same here it ruined me. I see every organization as an abuser and only wants my money. I dont believe in love. My whole upbringing was a lie and i struggle to come to grips with it and keep on living like i actually care. Half of my life was wasted in some way and i kind of wish everybody suffered like i did. But counseling helps if everybody else wants to waste their time and money like i did thats fine by me, im not going to be fooled again. Hang in there i am and i dont have any real friends these days.

Yes, I believed it. All of it. And I refuse to let it ruin my life for one more minute.

Because I was born into the faith, I grew up with the assumption that it was all true. I didn't have my first doubts until my teen years, and even then, the doubts weren't all that serious. Encountering my first mission president led me to the realization that his calling could not possibly have been divinely inspired, which ultimately led me to question everything else I'd been told was true about the organization.

My first mission president was replaced by a great man, but my epiphany had already happened. Surely I would have smelled the coffee before too much longer, but had my second mission president been in place for the entirety of my mission, I would have made it through the mission experience with my "faith" intact. Since I was fortunate enough not to have suffered any real harm as a result of having an @sshat mission president, I'm glad it happened as it did and that I didn't labor under the misperceptions any longer than I did.

I believed it all until I didn't. Now that I know the church isn't true and doesn't have all the answers to life's problems I stand a better chance of finding real answers.

Bad parenting does more to ruin lives than the church. Granted the church contributes in that it pretends to have the answers and cures to societies ills when it doesn't. Some of what the church does is good and some damaging but not the cause nor the fix to our ills.

We can't fix the past but we can learn from the mistakes that have been made and move on. I believe enduring struggle can develop wisdom and strength of character within us if we accept it with a proper attitude.

I beg to differ that the church is not to blame - the church tells parents how to treat their children; what thought-stoppers to use, phrases to indoctrinate with, recommendations (ie, rules) to follow.

Some parents follow these instructions with the same blind faith they follow the church with, and do not deviate from the script - this is without any involvement of the bishop for 'inspired advice', ie uneducated guesswork.

Forcing your kids to 'fake it' til they 'gain a testimony', as the church advises, is nothing but a recipe for disaster. Further, we must not forget that beating one's kids into compliance (submission) was socially acceptable just a generation ago: many mormon kids were beaten regularly to shape behaviour.

Kids and wives are possessions of an upright priesthood holder, remember? We have been repeatedly taught during our upbringing that the 'lord' sometimes uses violence to achieve the desired end: nephi cut laban's head off and in more modern times the danites killed a good few (dozens) folks too. Violence was condoned by the church, therefore using violence to enforce your position as 'parent' was (still is in some places) perfectly acceptable religiously and socially.

I have seen my younger sibling raise his kids the way we were raised but his kids are not as compliant as he was. Any suggestion to change his approach is met with the same look of disgust that I get when I talk about the stone in the hat translation process or the teen marrriages of horny joe. He will not acknowledge the church way may be slightly flawed or even useless in some circumstances. To do so would crash his shelf.

The church indeed has a lot to answer for. It turns people into compliant anxiety ridden zombies with no idea how to relate to or discipline their kids, but instead a set script to follow when parenting.

evil personified

Looking back, I don't think I ever was a religious person at all. I tried so hard to be one, including being a good Mormon.

But I spent 30 years in a battle with myself. The closest I ever got to believing was, "I guess it must be true. Somehow. It must be, right?"

Mostly I spent time trying to live as if it was true, so people thought I had an amazing testimony. I felt like a fraud, because I never really did believe it completely.

It took me a long time to admit that to myself. You don't always see it clearly until you're on the outside, looking in.

That's exactly how I felt growing up Catholic. Not only did I feel like a fraud, but I thought that there was something wrong with me because I didn't feel or believe what the other kids said they were feeling and believing. In hindsight, I realize that I was chafing from the indoctrination in Catholic school and catechism. As bad as it was for a Catholic kid, it had to be hell for a Mormon kid with a constant drumbeat of pray, pay, and obey.

What you've posted sounds like my daughter. I tend to believe she doesn't really BELIEVE it, but puts on a good act. Every now and then, she says something that makes me wonder.

I have to add that once I realized I didn't believe, I knew I never bought the whole JS story and never had a testimony of JS, etc. It just seemed too unbelievable. Really shocked me when I found out there were so many versions of the first vision (from this board). A lot of things that always bugged me from a very young age and that I didn't acknowledge to myself until I left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2017 11:34AM by cl2.

I agree.

Greyfort, it sounds like me, except that I tried to believe it, as a convert in my late 20s, for "only" 13 years.

At various times, yeah -- a little bit.

But I think there's a huge difference between active belief and unknowing/ignorant "acceptance." Mostly I was the latter.

If you were brought up in the church, you were taught this stuff from the day you were born. Most of us didn't make any kind of conscious choice to "believe" it, we just ignorantly accepted that what our parents & peers were telling us was true.

But there come times in all our lives when we have to choose a path at a fork in the road. When we have to decide if we really believe this stuff, and act on that belief, or if we don't -- and choose the other fork in the road.

Those times come differently for all of us. I took a step down the belief path when my bishop told me to dump the terrific Catholic girl I was dating in high school, and I did. Did I do it because I believed him to be an inspired representative of god? Or because I wanted his approval and the approval of my mormon peers? I honestly don't know. I just know that by doing what he said, I took a step down the path leading to belief.

I took another one -- a somewhat larger one -- when I went on a mission. Even though I already had significant doubts about believing it at the time, I took that huge step down the belief path. Did I do it because I believed in mormonism? Or because (again, a common theme) I wanted the approval of my family and peers? I honestly don't know. Probably a little of both. But it was a big, giant, huge move down the belief path.

On my mission, I waffled. I'd take little steps down the belief path, and sometimes I'd take little steps the other way. I didn't have the courage to make a committed decision either way. I didn't have the knowledge to decide what I believed. For me, at least, I finally recognized that lack of knowledge, and decided to do something about it.

And then a day came, just after coming back from the mission, where I had to make a choice. To choose whether I actually believed it, and make life choices based on that belief, or to decide that I didn't, and make other choices. When push came to shove, I chose the latter. It was a defining moment for me...when I finally had the courage to ignore peer/family approval, and to admit to myself and everyone else that no, I didn't believe it. That I was moving from ignorant acceptance to thinking and deciding. And that I decided to go with un-belief.

Most of us face such moments -- at varying times. Most of us HERE at one point had the courage to not believe. To admit it to ourselves first, and then others. We went from ignorant acceptance to thinking and deciding. And what a glorious moment that is.

Did I really believe any of that stuff? Mostly no, I just accepted. Sometimes a little. Finally, not at all.

:)

Thanks for this post, Hie. I had similar feeling after several years in Mormonism. As you know, new converts have hard-ons for the church. Mine lasted about 18 months, then issues started arising for the Boner. I went inactive, I got reactivated by an inactive woman I was dating. (She left the church before me.) I got married in the temple, only to have my beliefs shattered shortly thereafter.

I swallowed it all: "hook, line, and sinker". When I was accepted to work in the historical department of the COB, I was only 18 years old and I told my parents how excited I was that I was going to be working for "the celestial kingdom on Earth."

I believed all of it. I remember the day I realized that I had been duped. I was relieved and pissed all at the same time.

I was raised in a nearly all Mormon county by the most Mormon family in it. I heard Mormon all day every day from all the people I looked up to. Believing was never a choice. I had no reason not to accept it as the truth.

For me the Joseph Smith saga, the gold plates, the BoM and all of it was information that was innocent until proven guilty. Google came too late for me. I was so proud to be the peculiar people who didn't drink the devil's brew.

Funny how Mormonism doesn't just look false from a distance once your perspective is adjusted, but actually looks ridiculous. The whole idea is pretty funny except when you realize how much the indoctrination hurt us. Mormonism wasn't just some curiously odd and twisted facts, but also a way of life. Mormonism formed too much of my deepest self and what is etched on your mind and personality when you are young doesn't really go away but must be constantly overcome. I'm aware that it is there and I work with what I have, but I mostly feel like I am not in on the joke that is life on a gut level.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormonism formed too much of my deepest
> self and what is etched on your mind and
> personality when you are young doesn't really go
> away but must be constantly overcome.

D&D, you post some of the most insightful stuff ever.
Like that above.

So true. :)

A part of me will always be like Buddy the Elf.

I don't think that deep down I ever believed it.

LDS inc. AKA "THE" (MORmON) church endlessly promoted several fundamental principles/ideals and I believed them ....much to their detriment.

First of all: Truth matters!! (and I believed it)

Second: (Actions matter because there are ALWAYS) Consequences! ! .......Consequences!!!!! CONSEQUENCES!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpi8waDT2y8


A person who pays attention then soon realizes that LDS inc continually LIES about their MORmONISM, to the extent that NO body lies about MORmONISM more than MORmONS do, not even close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1car5aCGE6E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVFaATFo5Rk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvMwLRY7P3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92n83omeBsM

I think that getting people to believe in rediculous things is a part of making the whole scam possible. By the time the church has you believing that the earth is only six thousand years old and that JS translated the plates, your critical thinking skills are pretty well shot. That's just one step toward their owning your mind.

I believed JS was a prophet and that the BofM was what they said it was and, looking back, that was too much. But when people started telling me how to live my life I did NOT believe they had any God given right to do it. I wore the clothes I wanted. I always thought garments were a con job. I never wanted to marry a BIC Mormon because i was afraid he would be a robot for the church. A liberal convert or non-Mormon mate was more to my taste.

Most of the other teachings meant little to me. If I didn't have my own world, I really didn't care. If I didn't make it to be celestial, I really didn't care. And if someone disliked my clothes, my food, my friends, my lifestyle, well, I may have been offended but I wasn't about to be dictated to. I also thought what I wanted to think w/o worrying about the thought police. And I read the books I wanted and saw the movies I wanted. Guess I was never really cut-out to be Mormon but the missionaries never tell you all that stuff when they sugar coat Mormonism in their lessons.

Pooped Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...but
> the missionaries never tell you all that stuff
> when they sugar coat Mormonism in their lessons.

No kidding. If they did, most people wouldn't join.
But some still would -- people like my step-dad.

He's mildly OCD. He loves order and cleanliness (to the point of obsession). He *loved* what the church offered:
You don't need to decide what kind of clothes to wear, we'll tell you.
You don't need to decide which movies are OK to watch, we'll tell you.
You don't need to decide when sex is OK or isn't, and what kinds -- we'll tell you.
And if you do what we tell you enough, we'll put you in a position where you will be telling other people what to think and do.

It fit him to a "t". Order, obedience, rules. No thinking about anything. He'd found a home.

Most of the rest of us...it's hell, not home.

"And if you do what we tell you enough, we'll put you in a position where you will be telling other people what to think and do."

"The Circle of Life," Mormon style.

I was always bothered that nothing the prophet said was ever revealing of new revelations or doctrines or NEW information about God, the gospel etc. Same thing with the temple. Nothing enlightening came from it AND personal prayers yield very little insight or help. The temple "mysteries" were a bore.

I didn't see leaders get results that prayer and priesthood even mattered in life. I knew I faked through a lot of blessings and I to never really saw any healing power passed a placebo.

The prophet never actually acted like one. Didn't do anything for the world really. World leaders could give a shit. The church membership and importance never really took off.

Then you get into history about what was said or understood and they what really happened in the rest of the story.

Yeah, what a waste of decades growing up in the church.

Thanks to each of you.

Yes to what Becca wrote:

"Yes, I believed it. All of it. And I refuse to let it ruin my life for one more minute."

There have been times that I have had to focus very strongly on my vow to not let Mormonism ruin one more minute of my life. Stay strong, people!

My experiences with Mormonism were unusually bad--thank God others haven't suffered as much--as I was abused as a child, then, at BYU, conned into a temple marriage with a wife-beating psychopath. I was left with permanently shattered broken bones, PTSD, no self-esteem, and no faith that anyone would ever rescue me or love me--not even God. I did get married to an old boyfriend, another Mormon, and had children. I was always able to love--but I didn't love a whole lot of people. Because I was a divorced woman, a lot of my Mormon fake-friends abandoned me, and my second husband's family disapproved of me. No one cared that I had to get divorced to save my life. Still in the cult, the leaders started abusing my children--adult priesthood leaders breaking into our house, and shoving and kicking my sons; and the the bishop's older son molesting my little girl.

I feel guilty in believing that "Mormonism is the best way to raise children." I can't undo what the cult did to us--but I can do everything to stop it from ruining the rest of our lives. My children and I resigned together.

It is NOT too late, Omergod! As long as you are breathing, you have the present moment to live. I would go through all the agony of resigning and losing literally ALL of my Mormon friends, go through it all again, even if I had only one more day to live.

Therapy can help! It helped me with my PTSD. Therapy helped me be less depressed.

I trust your judgment, Omergod, in what you write, because only you know these things. Even though it is too late for marriage and children--there are other things in life! This having-babies-multiply-and-replenish-the-church thing is only one of many, many possibilities in life. You have been brainwashed! You can be happy and successful without marriage!

If you are still bound in the cult, you can resign, now! Work it out, according to your individual circumstances.

badassadam--you need to give it more time. While you are sick and in pain, you see things through a negative lens. In time, you will find true friends--even one true friend, is enough.

There is LOVE--real, unconditional love--out in the real world. Yeah, most of the love comes from YOU, but a small percentage will be returned from others, and that is enough. Contrary to what the Mormons lead you to believe, you don't need hundreds of friends and tens of children and a huge Mormon family. Mormons tell members this, so they will recruit for the cult. "Bring your friends and neighbors." "Every member a missionary."

There is love and friendship of the REAL kind out here!

Yes, I also believed the Mormon lie that Mormonism is the only source of love and friendship. There is nothing real to be found in Mormonism. It is NOT the best way to live or raise children. The social lies can be as damaging as the doctrinal lies.

You need to believe in a better life for your future outside of Mormonism. Believe in yourself!

I was young and oh, so susceptible to a "happy ever after ending". Plus, my home life had been emotionally abusive making me yearn and reach out for something, anything that promised better.

So, along comes Mormonism and what I wanted out of it was that dream of happiness in this life and the next, so I grasped hold and hung on for dear life. My home life had cut to shreds any thing resembling trust making the whole Mormon Joseph Smith story set on rocky grounds with me. Narcissists had been in my family and Joseph Smith sounded like a dead ringer for them.

But, I managed to ignore my doubts for a short time....until university courses and No Man Knows My History by Fawn
Brodie arrived in my life and the Big Doubt began.

Did I ever really believe? Deep, deep down I just wanted and WISHED it to be true.

I don't know that I believed that stuff. I don't know that I emphasized it... I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it.

Yep, I believed it.

Oddly, I was just thinking about this the other day. I've lost hope, innocence, the ability to believe. I'm not bitter, just really, really sad about that. It hasn't ruined all of me, but it has made it difficult in some areas. Even after all this time of being out, I still haven't come to terms with it.

I have always been a reluctant Mormon that was born into a highly entrenched mormon and pioneer heritage. That genetic code can play lifelong tricks on your thinking. It's like one side of the brain always tslking saying, "Isn't Mormonism silly," while, at the same same time, the other side saying, "Hi, it's me, your pioneer heritage. Please don't leave me." It's sucks, but it is what it is.

Yep, I believed it. I recall the angst I had constantly noticing
that reality didn't fit the narrative. Finally, 39 years ago, it
became obvious that it was not real.