My TBM father, who is a young and reasonably healthy 66 year old, found out today that he has an aneurysm in his brain that could rupture at any moment and kill him instantly. He'll likely have to have neurosurgery within the next few days. He had the same condition 20 years ago and it almost killed him then. The percentages are not on his side this time around.

I went with my TBM brothers to his home to be with him today, and we had a good long conversation, expressed our love and support, and all in all good feelings prevailed. As we were getting ready to leave, my dad asked my TBM brothers for a priesthood blessing, and then turned to me and specifically asked me to join in. I have told him numerous times that I am an atheist, that I believe in neither god nor any form of supernatural/metaphysical religion. Even knowing this about me, he specifically asked me to join in the circle, and said "Just rely on MY faith."

I have been heartbroken all day because of my dad's condition. Although he and I have very little in common (mostly because of religion), I love my father. I didn't want to say anything negative or confrontational or disappointing to him, given his condition, and given the fact that he may be on borrowed time. But I had to refuse, and he continued to press it and insist. I finally had to say that I had resigned from and was no longer a member of the church.

This ended the request, of course, and he even said to my brothers that they should wait to do the blessing (presumably until a time when I'm not there). Then he said, very awkwardly, "Well then you'll be one of these people that, um, have their, uh, butts kicked..." He couldn't finish the thought because he could see immediately how offensive it was. He meant, of course, that I would be punished severely by god for my waywardness.

This has been a very difficult thing for me, because I didn't want this to be about me or my beliefs or religion. I wanted to simply share time and love with my father, but he had to try and push religion and guilt on me in the middle of it. For the record, I struggle with no feelings of guilt or shame. I just wish religion wouldn't interfere with my relationships with my family like this. It was a pointed example of how religion poisons everything.

God I hate TSCC.

It really is awful that this time was warped by religious demands.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2011 04:27PM by Rebeckah.

I'm so sorry to hear about your father's condition. At times like this, people often rely on their religious faith to comfort them.

Hopefully, you can let the religious implications slide and find a way to make peace with it.

I thought your response was respectful and sufficient, however, it appears, it was a disappointment on all sides. We can't always meet others expectations, nor can we control other people.

My best wishes to you and your family.

I'm sorry to hear it, too.

My brother did have an aneurysm burst and lived. He happened to be at the UofU hospital at the time (he was going to school there, had a horrible headache, so went to the hospital). He ended up having 5 surgeries because of it and 15 years later is still alive and kicking.

Hang in there!

Sorry for you and your family. I've never been in that kind of situation. Don't mean to pick, but wouldn't it have been okay just to do it to not disappoint your dad? To me, it would be like the wife asking if a particular outfit made her look fat. Without looking I already know the answer. But like I said, I've never been in a situation like yours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2011 04:37PM by paulrc.

I thought you had to be "worthy" in order to participate in a priesthood blessing, or else the whole deal is null and void? Dunno for sure.

The rules seem often very flexible, according to the wishes of TBMs in different circumstances.

I think you could have joined in, just thinking in terms of sending "positive vibes" to your dad, but if the blessing is so infuriatingly LDS specific, then you're right to beg off, because you KNOW it is not "THE" church.

Aneurysms are tricky, as you know, sometimes the outcome is OK but sometimes such a major blowout that they can't be dealt with.

I know that the news is stressful, but look at it this way -- your dad's physicians found the aneurism in a timely manner, and with any luck, can fix it.

Hugs to you!

I'm very optimistic about my dad's ability to pull through this. He is receiving competent and timely medical care, and isn't relying solely on faith (thank god). But the risk is still quite great, and I just hate to have this stressful time turn into an indictment of me and my beliefs, when all I want to do is give my love and support to him.

...in the scheme of things. I think he'll do just fine.

A friend of mine told me that she had once had brain surgery, and I looked at her slack-jawed. You never would have known.

Gotta love modern miracles. :-)

resipsaloquitur Wrote:
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> I just hate to have this stressful time turn into an indictment of me and my beliefs, when all I want to do is give my love and support to him.




And those are exactly the right words to say to him. And repeat, no matter the pressure to do otherwise.

I think they are sentiments that any parent could appreciate.

Crappy time to be forced to out yourself. good thing you told the truth. Yeah its hard. "Dad, your reaction is the very reason I left, because in the end its believe or get your ass kicked or tossed to outer darkness. Where is free will or unconditional love in that?"

Hope your Dad comes out OK. Interesting to know that your Bro's have to say.

Maybe you think this would not have been appropriate given the seriousness of the moment, but you should have jumped right in.

Regardless of your belief in God or not, if there is a God, your joining in certainly would not taint anything. The belief in God helping others through prayer does not depend on the Mormon priesthood. You know that, as should your brothers.

It would have been a great opportunity to tell your brothers later that you have left the cult and your doing so did not affect their ritualistic blessing one iota. Either their Mormon once-was-a-man God is going to bless your father or He isn't. God's blessing your father has nothing to do with your beliefs or lack of faith. And you can point out that if they think God blessing your father is contingent on what you or anyone else believes, then that's a pretty stupid God they believe in.

My father did the same thing to me knowing fullwell that I had been inactive for over a decade. He would ask at family gatherings...I finally gave in and did it, and everyone was so happy with me that I had "come around".

I wanted to say to f'n Hell with all of you, then I left 5 minutes later.

I avoided him and the family for another 2 weeks and he finally died. I was relieved.

That's exactly why I wouldn't ever participate. Even if I thought my integrity would allow me to participate in their ritual magic when I don't believe in it, the bigger issue as I see it is one of boundaries and the message they would receive. They would interpret such behavior as a chink in the armor, so to speak. They would think I doubt my resolve and that there is still hope that I will repent and come around. That is not a message I'm willing to convey because it will only prolong the friction, and prolong their unwillingness to just let it go.

He's very lucky that they know it's there and will try to do everything they need to in order for him to get better. I lost my best friend to a brain aneurysm. She was only 16. The trouble is that no one knew it was there.

In your Dad's case, I'm happy that they found it and I hope for the best outcome.

Res, you stated in your OP that your father knew you were an atheist, yet he asked you to perform a blessing. He crossed a boundary, by not respecting your beliefs. You had every right to refuse.

That's what I think, too, Misfit. I think it's an insult to my beliefs and my integrity. Only someone with NO integrity would accept the invitation, IMHO. It's also sort of a trap, because if you do it, they can use it against you later.

There is hope for his survival. My mother-in-law survived and hers leaked (almsot ruptured). She had three brain surgeries and now, five years later, she is about 90% better, which is awesome.

At the same time, I am so sorry for what your father said to you. Sounds like he realized what he said was inapropriate so hopefully he won't do that any longer.

Hugs

That is just SO sad that he would do that in such a critical time. Shows how deep the brainwashing goes.

Best to you and him both, hope all goes well.

is about as low as it gets. He has no respect for you or your boundaries. If he has/had a hard time with this, it's HIS problem. You did NOTHING wrong and can continue to live true to your beliefs.

I would have considered you seriously lacking in character, self love and love for those you associate with (ie. family members too) had you not been true to yourself.

Two big thumbs up to you. You gotta be (otta be) enjoying your feedom. living your life doing what others do, think or feel is sad and suffocating. Playing their game or playing by their rules is debilitating and shows desregard and lack of respect to you and them.

As tough of a spot as you were in, you came out on top. Kudos to you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2011 08:09PM by dane.

Thank you. I needed to hear that.

It definitely is a sick poison for sure that takes a while to get out.

When my father goes, I won't even be in the same state. He moved away to Utah with his sycophants. I'm sorry you have to deal with this, res. I'm the lucky one this time.

I think that the obvious question at this point, Res, is now that we're six and a half years down the road from the OP, what happened to your dad and did you ever find ghawd?

I remain as devoutly atheist as ever I was six years ago. As for my father, the relationship has taken a dramatic turn for the worse. It started when my parents talked my ex wife out of letting my daughter come live with me because, as an atheist, I am not a good influence on her.

My father's physical health is fine after his surgery, but I cannot say the same for his moral health.

I'm so sorry, Res. The good news is that life is long, and your daughter can choose to stay or live with you when she comes of age. My best years with my mom came long after I reached adulthood.

Sorry to hear of your dad's condition.

My TBM dad used to do the same to me before he passed away. I was in my thirties and forties back then and completely out of the church and he knew it, and he knew why, yet he would constantly ask me to say food prayers, family prayers, and give blessings. Like it was going to shock me into being a mormon again.

I always declined as politely as I could, and didn't care if he felt bad about it or tried to shame me. That was his problem, not mine.

My typical come back/ shut down about not believing was.....you got to make the choice to be a mormon for yourself, why do I not get the same choice?

He wanted me to pretend that I was a believer and a member and give him a blessing with family around and I offered to say a prayer instead.

I explained with everyone listening that I believed God listens to my prayers on his behalf as fervently or not as fervently as those offered as priesthood blessings.

A BIL laughed/coughed and so I continued explaining that if this weren't so, then a child's prayer would be less valuable then a priesthood prayer and I didn't believe that.

He started to cry and he passed several days later.

I am sick about it to this day.

So sad that at a time like that your father felt like he had to bludgeon your relationship. My father threw quite a few barbs at me like that through the years and it hurts like hell to know that all the love you feel for them is returned as judgement--that you are seen as weak and sinning and not for who you are.

The religious, and Mormons in particular, don't have a foundation of fact and reason as a basis for their operation and therefore are left grasping at emotional daggers like this to achieve their means.

I always stood up too. I always said straight out how I felt about the church when asked or pinned down. I have always been glad I did. The hardest thing in life is to speak the truth and let the chips fall where they may. It is worth doing though. Good for you. And "God I hate TSCC" for and in behalf of resipsaloquiter who is heartbroken.

Family oriented church my ass!

I think you did fine. I would do the same.

Sometimes older people go for long times where no one ever touches them.

Here's a thought to consider: "I'm not a believer, but may I join in next to you all?" and put your hands on his shoulders. Or kneel down and hold his hand while others give the blessing.

No magic, no woo, just love.

Touch is not what he asked for. Wizardry is what he asked for, and I could not comply. I could only respond to the words he used.

You're right. I apologize.

I like this ^

I think time has made it obvious that you did the right thing by remaining true to yourself and your convictions. Had you done anything different you would now be regretting it. You dodged an odious trap. Congrats on your courage.

Your dad did a very mean thing by using his illness to try and subjugate and manipulate you. Believe me, I have seen some pretty devious manipulation in my family. I understand how you can love and respect someone dearly and still be angered by their choices and behavior. My grandfather abused one of the kindest, dearest, and most faithful of sons (my dad) until his dying day. It was so sad to watch my father's pain.

Do remember that LDS,Inc. puts a tremendous amount of guilt and responsibility on parents if their children leave the cult. Your dad is a victim of this abuse. I'm guessing he was raised LDS, but maybe not. He is still a free agent to use his own reasoning and choose unconditional love over religious programming. He made his choice.

You can be the bigger person in this scenario. Show him that your love is unconditional. Let him know you respect his right to believe differently. You respect his position as your father. You love him. However, you have a universal right (God given if that's the only way he will understand) to your own mind and to your own beliefs and life choices. In his belief system it is the wicked plan of Satan to take away man's free agency. Certainly he does not want to have his "butt kicked" for implementing that plan!

If a son's unfailing love and respect (this is not the same as subjugation) is not sufficient to earn your father's happiness, respect, and appreciation in return, there just isn't much you can do but pity him.

My Mom asked me to dedicate my Dad's grave even though 3 of my 4 brothers are still TBM and she knows I don't believe anymore. Instead of saying "By the power of the holy melchizedek priesthood which I hold" I said "By the power that Dad conferred upon me."

I'm so sorry your father's life is at risk.

I totally hear you. I think you did right by yourself by not pretending.

The whole situation sucks. I hope there will be lots of time to spend together and hopefully you'll work through this together.

but I can't imagine how that made you feel.

How very arrogant.

I believe the actions of your brother to be a direct result of having listened to untold renditions of faith-promoting stories. Your brother has visions of this situation becoming just such another tale. Of course the emotion of the event, related to your father's health adds to its value as a "spiritual" moment. He imagines you at some future date bearing your testimony of the truth of Mormonism. You recount how he asked you to be in on the blessing even though he knew you to be an atheist..."his faith will carry you". Then you bear your testimony of how, through that experience you have come to know the church is true. Or, alternatively, should you never 'come to your senses' he will use the story to promote "the gosepel" himself.

In any case, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that but you certainly did the right thing in not allowing him to use you in the situation.

My DH, also most certainly not an atheist found himself in a similar situation. He sat out the blessing of his father, much to the chagrin of his TBM mother and brothers. Later, his mother railed against him to tell him how wrong he was and how Satan had him in his clutches. However, knowing he left with his integrity intact and that he refused to be "used" to promote the Mormon church, he has no regrets.

Neither should you.

Sorry about this stressful time you are going through, res. You did the right thing. You gotta be you. They have no right to expect you to participate in something you don't believe in. You weren't trying to coerce them into being athiest.