Why do crazy ideologies have to be respected?

Hmm. Thinking.


Still thinking...

We do need to respect everyone's right to choose their own beliefs. We'd be crazy to respect crazy beliefs.

Mormons seem to think we must respect their beliefs in underwear, golden plates, magic books, and sitting in meetings. Nope, not buying into respecting those ideas.

After all, Mormons don't respect my beliefs or my right to choose them. They show this by sending out missionaries to tell me I'm wrong and to say they're not happy with my reasonable life choices. That's rude and disrespectful behavior.

Respect is worthless if there's no merit to it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 04:05PM by Cheryl.

There's a difference between respecting people's right to believe what they want and to DO what they want. Ideas such as political positions and religious ideas are equal as far as being vulnerable to criticism. There's no mystical force field areound religious ideas, no matter how much they would like that.

I respect the idea that people have a right to believe what they wish re God but that doesn't mean their ideas cannot be questioned or challenged when those ideas enter the public square.

In Canada last week, the Supreme Court told the federal government that the current law against assisted suicide has to be changed and that they had a year to do it or else the highest court would not back the current law in any appeals.

In the resulting public media discussions, most people were generally supportive while some religious folk warned of dire consequences. They have a right to make those arguments but the rest of us have the right to argue against and point out the flaws in the arguments that they make.

Religious people seem to want the right to impose their views on others (no abortion, no LGBT marriage, no assisted suicide) but have a melt down when anyone dares to criticize their ideas. It's a war against religion!

The anti-blasphemy laws are alive and well in the US of A

I only respect the respectable. I find unsubstantiated beliefs to be interesting on a certain level, but not respectable.

I have a low opinion of those who expect respect and even lower of those who demand respect. Respect should be the logical end result of one's witnessing of goodness and accomplishment.

Allowing each other our opinions and rights is just the decent thing to do as long as they are not harming others. Mormons are harming others. Always have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 10:31AM by blueorchid.

You've completely missed my point.

I'm not asking for religious beliefs to be respected. I'm simply demanding Mormon beliefs be treated as special.

Got it?

Oh we got it alright, Dallin. LMAO

Because the best new ideas sound crazy at first. You'd crush them along with the crazies.

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the
sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife
is beautiful and his children smart."
--H. L. Mencken

They don't.
It's a good idea to "respect" peoples' right to believe what they want to, because doing so protects YOUR right to believe what YOU want to.

But WHAT is believed has to *earn* respect. It shouldn't be given "respect" automatically. Doing so makes "respect" meaningless, and a great many "beliefs" are so ridiculous, unsupportable, and often proven false that they don't merit any "respect."

"Mixing politics and religion is like mixing ice cream and manure; it doesn't affect the manure much, but it really messes up the ice cream."

And religion just can't stay away from politics, especially in the South, Utah, and the Middle East.

...Promote bigotry, sexism, homophobia...

I only respect the right to have stupid beliefs.

I have no problem with modern religious institutions that are compatible with the overall democratic, free world social contract. Those with transparency that respect the autonomy of the individual. There are many that do operate in this way. I have a lot of respect for some of them, actually, though I personally am an atheist.

For me it's not about Dawkins, it's about Orwell. It's not about religion versus non-religion. It's about totalitarianism versus democracy.


"I think the world currently is divided between those who stand for liberty, democratic values, pluralism, tolerance, respect, and the rule of law; and those who stand for any form of fascism, whether clerical fascism, in the form of a theocratic state, or totalitarian states, such as North Korea."

-Maajid Nawaz, head of the Quilliam Foundation and author of “Radical"

http://www.actualidadereligiosa.blogspot.pt/2015/02/islamism-is-rooted-in-insecurity-about.html#.VNVnsIE76rU

1: a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"

synonyms: esteem, regard, high opinion, admiration, reverence, deference, honor
"the respect due to a great artist"

My comment:
You can't pretend respect for an idea. When people say you have to "respect" religious beliefs, maybe what they mean is that you should shut up and be polite. And to some degree, you should shut up and be polite. (And so should religious people, and save their religious comments for like-minded people, instead of assuming that everyone agrees with them).

Exceptions to tolerance would be when an idea is dangerous or harmful, or when someone starts pushing their beliefs on you. Then you have a right to defend your OWN beliefs.

Just because a belief is religious doesn't give it automatic legitimacy.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 11:47AM by imaworkinonit.

Homey don't play that.

I agree, the issue here is totalitarianism versus democracy. Orwell, not Dawkins.

Totalitarians want society to refrain from questioning the source of their totalitarian power, the perpetual gag-order. The people-pleasers who support the totalitarian regime to their detriment want to go forward in society secure in the belief that they are pleasing. They want to be free of questions or hints that someone might be displeased with them because, essentially, they are living in fear and paranoia. The leaders, the ones who are to be pleased, certainly don't want anyone upsetting the apple cart and exposing their people-pleasers to the possibility they might free themselves.

Enforcement is the name of this game. In America, religion must be self-enforced as courts, the instruments of societal enforcement, steadily errode religion's enforcement mechanisms. Self-enforcement is a very shakey ground, possessing only the power granted voluntarily. Have the people-pleasers be questioned on their beliefs, and have them find they don't get from society the punishment (shunning) their cult imposes; but instead, when, through open dialogue--no subject off-limits, they find they're free, they tend to put onerous beliefs down.

In this environment, the totalitarians try to create a culture of silence. Philosophers, such as Tsuneseburo Makiguchi, differentiated between small good and great good. The small good of social politeness can create evil when it's used to stifle great good: creating democracy and dismantling totalitariansim.

There's a really good clip by Terence McKenna on this. Totally mentions mormonism so it's on-topic:

It's called, "Terence McKenna denounces Relativism"

(sorry can't link from work)

Agree with this guys response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfkHJmHYn6M
The Way of the Mister: And I'm a Formon
by misterdeity

I know right? One of my parents just came in and told me my brother is going to go through the temple and wants my parents to come back to TSCC. I don't like it at all, but I just got a lecture on how I need to be happy for and respect my brother and all my Mormon siblings beliefs.

Said parent went on to say that my brother is making the right choice and both parents are going to return to Mormonism. They want me to respect, forgive, and support the Mormon church. The response I wanted to give was "That's it! I am moving out! Count me out of this Mormon Family. Come to me when your willing to just accept me for me and not for being something I am not." What makes me want to respect their wishes and beliefs when they don't even begin to respect mine?

They are always trying to push their beliefs on me and it is fine, but when I push back I am at fault... Sorry for the rant, I am very frustrated right now.

I don't expect anyone to respect what I believe. I do, however, expect them to respect me unless I'm trying to shove my beliefs down their throat.

I take the position we need to respect the RIGHT to religious beliefs. That means we honor the same RIGHTS we want for ourselves. That position only requires a recognition of RIGHTS.
Religious beliefs are the core of most cultures throughout the history of humanity. They are not going anywhere. It's part of what makes us human. It's our RIGHT to believe anything we want.

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I take the position we need to respect the RIGHT
> to religious beliefs. That means we honor the same
> RIGHTS we want for ourselves. That position only
> requires a recognition of RIGHTS.
> Religious beliefs are the core of most cultures
> throughout the history of humanity. They are not
> going anywhere. It's part of what makes us human.
> It's our RIGHT to believe anything we want.


+100

Exactly. When you seek to erode the rights of those you oppose, you will unavoidably erode your own rights as well. Let's strive to live in a society that allows us to be offended rather than grant a governing body the power to choose what we can and cannot see, hear, read, or believe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 02:20PM by Tall Man, Short Hair.

I respect the right of everyone to believe what they want, so long as they don't try to inflict it on me.

But as to the beliefs themselves, no I don't respect illogical superstition.