We're all exmormons here, after all.

And we're attacking people's character over the existence of a higher power.
Isn't attacking someone's character based on their theological beliefs (or lack thereof) something that we resent seeing in TBM's?

Ridiculous.
Religious people aren't stupid for believing in a higher power.
Atheists aren't arrogant and condescending for being atheists.

Lets discuss if atheism was a cause of the evils of communism, or the likelihood of a higher power existing.

But lets avoid insulting eachother like children.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 06:19PM by celloman.

I like your point of view.

Me too, but some theists and some atheists do fit your characterization. Certainly not all or even the majority.

It's become really tiresome, but I guess some people are spoiling for a fight. Or they just like to maximize the number of hits to their OPs.

I find it pointless and demeaning to engage in spitting contests, so I don't even bother to open up those topics.

I don't like Mormonism. That's the only religious position of mine that's anyone's business.

Certain parts of Christianity have launched a debate into whether gay people deserve the right to marry, or even any rights at all. They've pushed their beliefs onto our currency and Pledge of Allegiance, and are actively fighting to have their beliefs put into textbooks (pushing out scientifically sound concepts like evolution) and law.

Atheists in general are one of the least trusted groups in America, are pretty much unelectable, and have been treated poorly in general.

I'm being oppressed. That's why I fight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 07:00PM by Xyandro.

I believe that the fighting could be an indicator of left over Mormonism self righteousness that requires absolute moralism.

"Absolute moralism" is that condition that exists when a person being unable to control their own life attempts to control everyone elses.

I really dislike infighting Let's quit doing it!

After all, this is not some LDS correlation-committee exercise in priesthood-controlled propriety.

Rather, it's a concept in action that may be uncomfortable for some ex-Mos who are unaccustomed to, and uneasy with, energetic, outspoken, unapologetic contention for or against given ideas. That concept is known, in the world outside Mormonism, as Free Speech in the public arena. Free Speech can be tough speech for particularly touchy people. Folks need a thick skin when entering this gale-force wind forum. Prisoners don't tend to be taken here.

That said, just go easy on the vulgarities and death threats. They violate board policy. :)



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 07:25PM by steve benson.

I couldn't agree more.

Its really gotten to the point where many of these posts have ZERO to do with recovering from Mormonism. I really wish that the posters would stop shoving their beliefs down others and/or name calling and ridiculing others that they disagree with.

I posted once that to me this feels like TBMs in the way they vehemently defend their beliefs to the point of ridicule towards others. Or, it could also be that some feel that they were so wronged by it they have gone the opposite direction.

Whatever it is, I hope it stops.

Folks I spout off opinions and self-serving blather when I might do better to just log off.

But puhlease, just don't axe to splain em because they often change before I can log back on.

Gutless wimp, ain't I?

I am a life long atheist.

Until I was about 35 I did not care about the religious beliefs of others.

All my atheist life there has been attacks on me for being atheist. Until I was about 35, I had never once attacked anyone's religious beliefs. During that time, I was regularly attacked for being atheist. All the attacks came from the religious.

In my early 20, I began to realize that I was also being attacked by the religious for a different reason, being gay. Back then, even the so called liberal churches were anti-gay. The MCC was founded so there would be a Christian church to minister to gays.

Still I did not attack the beliefs of others, even the ones that were attacking me in the name of religion.

After a lifetime of being attacked for being an atheist, and a 15 years of knowing I was being attacked for being gay, virtually, exclusively by religion and the religious, I started fighting back in self defense.

My experience with religion is that it is judgmental, hurtful, dogmatic and lead into attacking others by their faith in their religion. I have never seen the alleged good that comes from religion.

I fight back in self defense. I will not accept the label as the bad guy for doing so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 07:54PM by MJ.

(I discovered this site over a decade ago while I was researching stuff about a friend's mormon heritage)

Perhaps the arguing is a kind of reveling in the new freedom to disagree and criticize, which was repressed as church members. Why it continues, I'm not sure, other than to some it feels good, gives them a sense of authority, or is part of an ongoing crusade for things that were formerly forbidden and against the forbidders.

What I find most curious are the regular newsflashes that some religious figure or group, or even a simple member, has done something stupid or harmful, as if this "wrong" behavior is a direct result of their religion (and the implication that this doesn't happen to the secular, or that it somehow elevates the secular), or perhaps a schadenfreude that someone has been caught in a hypocrisy.

I like the advice which Bradley quoted from Wayne Dwyer on another (closed) thread: "When you have a choice between being right and being kind, be kind." That 'rightness' is an ego booster and it usually entails making someone else out to be 'wrong.' This is sometimes difficult in the halfway house that a recovery board represents. People here are given license, even encouragement, to go through shouting, fuming, vomiting, sweating, and shivering stages as they shed decades of baggage. Hence venting in "radical honesty" ways that would not be acceptable in general social relations is often given a pass.

But (and I know this echoes a Mormon meme, but as I said, I have never been a member)I wonder sometimes at the use people's "rightness," or conviction of truth, is being put to. I have been living in Japan, where the typical Western idea of factual truth is routinely balanced against relational truth, often deemed more urgent in collectivist societies. Radical Honesty argues that the brutal truths are always good, hence are fundamentally "kind," but from what I've seen, that can be just a smokescreen for interpersonal brutality.