King asked John to show "sorrow" for his actions.

The church does ask for apologies.

Ah, the church feels that proceedings of a church court should be confidential and all participants should respect that confidentiality.

Isn't that what every kangaroo court would like?

How would the injustice of a court be exposed if its proceedings were kept confidential?

The confidentiality of such proceedings is intended to protect the accused, not the court, and any accused person has the right to waive that protection.

Thank you. THe church wants the confidentiality for the same reason a predator of any kind wants his victim to keep quiet.

Sounds a lot like "the secret game."

What about the confidentiality of the proceedings when it is announced in PH meeting that he has been excommunicated for apostasy?

My thoughts exactly.

From the SP letter...

"You have spread these teachings widely via the internet to hundreds of people..."

Talk about understatement.

The full letter is here, by the way:

http://www.deseretnews.com/media/pdf/1484938.pdf

Not sure why I clicked on that--I knew it would only make me angry. "Church discipline is the beginning..."

Blurgh.

Calling themselves "the true church" must go over well with other denominations. (It must have been tough not to write the only true church upon the face of the earth.)

The fact that they feel compelled to defend the scriptures as being Non-fiction is hilarious to me.

Also, nothing says, "Welcome back!" like public humiliation, courts, and excommunication. They claim that's what the atonement is all about.

The church bragging about free speech is also amusing.

John Dehlin's previous Stake President had no problem with any of John's doubts or "teachings." John either lost the game of leadership roulette, or Church Headquarters demanded John be excommunicated. Nothing about John's position changed between the time his church leaders considered him in good standing, and his excommunication.

Also, the local leader had never even met John when he decided to send him a notice of pending disciplinary council. "The decision as to whether to hold a disciplinary council, when and for what reasons rests with the local leader who knows the individual best." Complete BS.

Finally, John isn't teaching anyone anything. He has never once claimed any special authority. Meanwhile the Church leaders who do claim authority spout lies on Larry King Live like "I don't know that we teach that."

Very good points anontoday. These some of these so called "teachings" are people discussing the church's history... which they (the church) ended up confirming anyway. SMH... the church is ridiculous.

anontoday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> or Church Headquarters demanded John be
> excommunicated.
>
>


Anyone who doubts that this decision came down from the COB, as was the case with Kate Kelly, is deluding themselves.

Gotta love how confidential Johns excommunication is. The church couldn't wait to try and defend themselves in the court of public opinion. I don't care what their excuses are, they shouldn't have a thing to say about it in a newspaper.

I'm hoping that article causes a lot of people to go to the google god and find out just why people think the BoM and the BoA is fiction. Their findings could cause a big wave of people heading for the door.

These are topics that we need to keep talking about to keep loads of information up on the internet. Mormon Think, CES letter, the church essays, etc. need to be mentioned so people know where else to look. That's how I found Mormon Think and RFM the first time.

OMG - John actually had the balls to say the BoM and the BoA were fiction?
Doesn't he know that there are no truer books on the entire face of the earth? JS said so.

I think Madalice is right or I hope so anyway...I hope many people look up the BoM and BoA to see how fictitious they are. J.R.R. Tolkein's books are far truer as are the Harry Potter series.

The fictional books coming closest to the CULT's teachings are Orwell's 1984 and Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale... at least in terms of how the CULT operates. At least those are the ones that I can think of off hand.

Did some dummkopf in the LDS-Inc PR Department not just list 3 major grievances of people questioning Mor(m)onism for EVERYONE AND THEIR BROTHER TO SEE???

How does this so-called Chruch organization repeatedly continue to "shoot itself in the foot" every single gosh-darn time it opens its collective PR mouth???

Simply un-believable...and yet totally advantageous for all of us Ex-Mos!!!

[[["Although his stated positions on those subjects are not consistent with the Church’s teachings, they were not cited in the local leader’s letter delivered to Mr. Dehlin on February 9, which spelled out the reasons for the local council’s unanimous decision, as follows:

-Disputing the nature of our Heavenly Father and the divinity of Jesus Christ.

-Statements that the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham are fraudulent and works of fiction.

-Statements and teachings that reject The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as being the true Church with power and authority from God."]]]

Or so it seems to me...

Much face palming going on at COB. But maybe not. Never underestimate the stupidity of people.

BoA? Seriously? Wow.

Why didn't John Dehlin surreptitiously audio record his trial?

Because I think John's an honest guy and agreed with King that he wouldn't. I'd say they had him over a barrel. "You can come in with your witnesses, but you can't record. Or you can say you're going to record, and you can't come in and defend yourself."

I'm also guessing he doesn't want the mormons to be able to say "look! he is a liar! he recorded and said he wouldn't!"

They did not have to pray very long about this momentous decision did they? What a crock.

And, anyone who thinks they did not have this strategy all planned is a fool - they had the press release "courtesy" of the Deseret Pretend-News already to roll to attempt to dig themselves out a little after this court procedure fiasco.

I think some members who have not doubted before might have some questions after reading this "See! Aren't we considerate and amazing once again article."

I hope so.

QUOTE FROM THE STATEMENT

"But you do not have the right to remain a member of the Church in good standing while openly and publicly trying to convince others that Church teachings* are in error.”

* whatever those highly transitional doctrinal teachings may be in any given moment. see MORmON polygamy, see blacks and the MORmON priestDUD, see revisions of the MORmON temple ceremony, see MORmONISM and rights for homosexuals.

Does anyone else think the excommunication letter reads like a Monty Python skit? The somber, pompous tone makes it all the more hilarious. It would be fun to whip out at parties.

It's like the 5-year-old at a tea party throwing a tantrum because John stopped pretending the stuffed animals could talk.

Ok. Why is it so important that the church deny that John's support of SSM and Ordain Women are not the reason for his excommunication? Do they not want to get Feminist Mormon Housewives up in arms? On Radio West today John said that in previous meetings with local leaders, his support of SSM and OW was mentioned as problems.

It is not their general policy to make a statement about any church discipline, however, in the last two cases, they have deviated from their usual policy and issued statements for the media.

As posted above, this article/link is a good indicator of the church's position, and their effort to set the record straight. This is from "the horses mouth" so to speak. Anything else that is stated is speculation and not their claim or position.

NEWS RELEASE — 10 FEBRUARY 2015
Church Responds to John Dehlin’s Public Comments
The Church Has the Responsibility to Correct the Public Record
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-responds-to-john-dehlins-public-comments

If in the future, there is a high profile case of LDS Church Discipline, they may have a media release.

It's my opinion that Mr. Dehlin took this route to force the LDS Church to show their hand, to be specific about their complaints and concerns and in so doing, give attention to the processes of LDS Church discipline and why. It has become a way to put the public eye on the LDS Church.

My observation is that it has had a polarizing effect on the public: the true believers in support of the LDS Church and those that are not supporters, taking a strong opposing view.

Just as the Sept Six of 1993 are rarely discussed or known, this too will probably pass into obscurity.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2015 06:02PM by SusieQ#1.

Those books are not fiction? Dang. Now I've got to re-arrange my library. Should they go with humor or mythology?

The LDS Church showed its true colors to the world in this excommunication.

Despite more or less admitting it, Dehlin was excommunicated for teaching the "false concept" that the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham are fiction. Despite the fact that there mealy mouthed officially unofficial essays more or less admit this. Now that they have shown where they really stand, would someone with "authority" please explain yourselves. Specifically outline for us idiots why these are "false concepts" and why those books are everything Joseph Smith said they were.

Dehlin was also excommunicated for saying that he doesn't believe the LDS Church is the one and only true church. Why didn't they excommunicate the stake president, who said the same thing in a nicer way on the Today show? When they asked him whether it was the only way or just one alternative of many, he took the path of least resistance and said it's an alternative. If that's not public, then I don't know what is.

The inside outside communications game is breaking down. Red alert in the Mormon news room!