If you are a mormon by baptism and you have doubts about the historicity of church claims regarding the age of the earth, the book of mormon, the book of abraham, or other doubts regarding priesthood authority, masonic ritual, etc.,

you are free to maintain those doubts.

But.

There will be no open discussion of your doubts that may lead others to question their faith/belief in the one true church on earth.

So.

If you want to belong to an organization that believes that "truth" can withstand attacks, and that open discussion of faith issues leads eventually to a stronger faith in God...

leave.

Yeah, the church/cult has made it perfectly clear that who and what they care about is money, power and prestige and, by god, you better not upset the apples they have in a row, or think they have in a row.

But, sometime soon, someone or something is going to do just that in a big way in the form of uncovering the corruptness of this business organization.

I have too much belief in the goodness of people to think any differently.

A toast to hoping I'm right.

I don't know, but I'll drink to that hope!

That was clearly laid out in the conference talk "from such, turn away" by Packer. 1985


It is not the belief in a false notion that is the problem, it is the teaching of it to others. In the Church we have the agency to believe whatever we want to believe about whatever we want to believe. But we are not authorized to teach it to others as truth.

But your whole worthiness as a human being is the degree to which you "know" (not believe or think, but KNOW) the mormon church truth is THE TRUTH.

Dehlin's problem is the size of of his audience! He is providing a forum for ...well...thinking.. and not going to the leaders, who will give answers that are not answers.

The leaders of TSCC fully understand the incredible power of social influence.

They also fully understand the power of someone piping up and saying: the emperor has no clothes.

michaelanderson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So.
>
> If you want to belong to an organization that
> believes that "truth" can withstand attacks, and
> that open discussion of faith issues leads
> eventually to a stronger faith in God...
>
> leave.

You left out the best part: If you don't leave, we'll kick you out.

The point is, I don't think they care of doubters leave. Once you really start doubting, you quit paying tithing. If they aren't going to get your money, why are they going to want to mess with you. Just don't make other tithe-payers doubt. They don't give a shit about people. They only care about people's money.

Exactly.

So true. Remember they have access to your tithing records.

In moving from the inside to the outside looking in this last year, I am amazed (or is the word 'astonished'...) that I did not make the clear connection of how much church policy and programs lead directly towards the outcome of maintaining and increasing tithing revenue. "NormaRae" hits the nail on the head. If you decide to leave, and it is clear you've really done your homework, you are no longer a potential source of future tithing revenue. Moreover, if you stay you might infect others with a pesky thing called facts and a desire to figure out things on their own -- best to be rid of you then.

It was Dehlin who created the website "Staylds.com".

Must not think out loud. Verbalization turns acceptable behavior into apostasy?!

Oh, and drink your Starbucks frapuccino out of a brown paper bag.
If nobody else knows it's okay (apparently?).

The church has drawn their line in the sand. The line is no one who has doubts about TSCC is allowed to publicly verbalize those doubts. The church is moving toward a more fundamental organization. It is defining itself and does not want input from those of us in the rank and file. Only the top dogs are going to define what is true and/or acceptable. If you do not agree then either shut up or leave. It is a very interesting time for Mormonism.

"You are free to have all the doubts and personal contrary beliefs you want ...

... As long as you don't share or act on them."



Hell, the worst governments, worst religions and worst societies in the history of the planet could say exactly the same thing.

They are basically saying: "We don't really give a crap what you truly feel, or believe -- as long as you obey and conform!"

That they can dish it out but they can't take it.

Their king dumb wants to lead you astray- not the other way around.

They can rant and X all they want. They still can't stop members from going online and talking about their church experiences and perceptions. Internet anonymity is the mormon church's worst night mare.

And one would expect a world-wide information service to expose ignorance and misinformation, wouldn't one?

In science doubt is one of the necessary tools to find truth.

In Mormonism doubt is considered to be "of Satan," and Mormons
are told to avoid doubt.

As the story goes, the great physicist, Wolfgang Pauli hired a
PhD physicist as an assistant and gave him his job
description: Whenever I say anything you are to contradict me
with the strongest possible arguments.

In Mormonism we are told to "avoid contention" and keep away
from those who would weaken and "tear down" your testimony.

In science all kinds of experimental protocols have been worked
out over the years to avoid fooling yourself: double-blind
studies, control groups for testing, replication by independent
researchers, etc.

In Mormonism you are only supposed to "nourish" your testimony
and protect it from anything that might show it to be delusion.

In science if you prove the accepted claims are wrong they give
you a Nobel Prize.

In Mormonism if you prove the accepted claims are wrong they
excommunicate you.

Mormonism does not care about truth. Mormonism only cares
about belief.

In some countries (India), when a person says, "I have a doubt", that actually means (in U.S. vernacular), "I have a question".

Doubts are the way we find the truth.