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Posted by: Freevolved ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 12:30AM

Ok, I made that number up. I couldn't decide between twenty-two and sixty-nine.

Anyways, Exmormonron, who I love (even though he looks like a horse), started a thread about whether or not TSCC outlaws oral sex.,148997

He, among others, determined they have not. I think that they have.

"The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982.

"What if the person asking you to engage in something defiling is your husband, whom you love? A married couple may be tempted to introduce things into their relationship which are unworthy. Do not, as the scriptures warn, 'change the natural use into that which is against nature' (Romans 1:26). If you do, the tempter will drive a wedge between you."
- Apostle Boyd K. Packer, "The Things of the Soul," 1996, page 113.

Mormons who think oral sex is okay in the sight of Heavenly Father are just deceiving themselves.

From the October 2003 Ensign Magazine:

“Touch not their unclean things. Too many Latter-day Saints today somehow believe they can stand with one hand touching the walls of the temple while the other hand fondles the unclean things of the world. We can’t do that. As Alma said, “Touch not their unclean things” (Alma 5:57). I plead with you, put both hands on the temple. Put your arms around the temple, and hang on for dear life to your family dream. If you don’t, the tigers will come at night and tear your dreams apart."

" your profound respect for that love—and for the doctrines about eternal love and family life—by bridling your passions. Don’t be deceived by the false idea that anything short of the sex act itself is okay. That is a lie, not only because one step overpoweringly leads to another, but because even touching another person’s body with sexual intent is part of the intimacy that is kept holy by the sanctuary of chastity. Please also beware of unnatural sexual acts that are just as immoral, if not worse, than traditional fornication or adultery."
- Elder Bruce C. Hafen, “Your Longing for Family Joy,” Ensign, Oct. 2003, page 28

"Unfortunately, some married couples fail to realize that sexual experiences were never intended by the Lord to be a mere plaything or merely to satisfy passions and lusts. When couples engage in physical intimacy devoid of emotional and spiritual intimacy, or when they participate in unholy practices, what should be a spiritually bonding element in their marriage may actually become a disruptive force. Going to the scriptures and to the words of modern prophets for inspired counsel is one of the best ways husbands and wives can improve their communication and strengthen their marriage.
- Elder Spencer J. Condie, “Finding Marital Unity through the Scriptures,” Ensign, Jul 1986, page 52

The recent statements above mirror the official church declaration against oral sex, which was signed by the First Presidency - including Gordon B. Hinckley:

"Married persons should understand that if in their marital relations they are guilty of unnatural, impure, or unholy practices, they should not enter the temple unless and until they repent and discontinue any such practices. Husbands and wives who are aware of these requirements can determine by themselves their standing before the Lord."

"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency [including Gordon B. Hinckley] has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church - Including Gordon B. Hinckley, January 5th, 1982
See a photocopy of the letter here: PAGE 1 - PAGE 2

In a letter responding to an inquiry from a married couple asking if oral sex was permitted, the late church Presient and Prophet Harold B. Lee stated:

"I was shocked to have you raise the question about `oral lovemaking in the genital area among married couples.' Heaven forbid any such degrading activities which would be abhorrent in the sight of the Lord. For any Latter-day Saint... to engage in any kind of perversions of this sacred God-given gift of procreation would be sure to bring down the condemnation of the Lord whom we would offend were we to engage in any such practice."
- Church President Harold B. Lee,

The church has also condemned "unatural" sexual acts in marriage:

"Sexual relations in marriage are not unrestrained. Even though sex can be an important and satisfactory part of married life, we must remember that life is not designed just for sex. Even marriage does not make proper certain extremes in sexual indulgence. To the Ephesian saints Paul begged for propriety in marriage: "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself." (Ephesians 5:28.) And the Lord's condemnation included secret sexual sins in marriage, when he said: "And those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God." (D&C 132:52)"

"If it is unnatural, you just don't do it. That is all, and all the family life should be kept clean and worthy and on a very high plane. There are some people who have said that behind the bedroom doors anything goes. That is not true and the Lord would not condone it."
- President Spencer W. Kimball, The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.311-12

Local church leaders have been encouraged not to ask married couples about their sexual practices. However, the chuch has not changed its position that oral sex is an "unnatural, impure, or unholy practice" and therefore it is prohibited under the covenant made in the temple to abstain from all "unnatural, impure, or unholy practices."

No Questioning of Church Stand Against Oral Sex

"Some Church members may have reservations because of a physical appetite they are not quite willing to surrender."

"Some members are constantly evaluating the gospel by the standards of the world. They may think, 'That is not how I think the Lord would want it done,' or, 'Based on my understanding of the scriptures, the Church position should have been . . .'”

"Other common reservations are flagged by words such as 'yes, but . . .' when scriptures or prophets are quoted. Or we may hear, 'I am not going to let the Church make my decisions for me.'"

"For us, to 'believe all things' means to believe the doctrine of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as well as the words of the Latterday prophets. It means to successfully erase our doubts and reservations. It means that in making spiritual commitments, we are prepared to hold nothing back. It means we are ready to consecrate our lives to the work of the kingdom."

"Unquestioning obedience to the Lord indicates that a person has developed faith and trust in Him to the point where he or she considers all inspired instruction — whether it be recorded scripture or the words of modern prophets — to be worthy of obedience."

"Let us believe all things. Let us have unquestioning faith in all of the doctrines and truths of the restored gospel."
- Elder Robert Oaks, "Believe All Things" Church Ensign, July 2005, page 30


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 12:56AM by Freevolved.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 01:17AM

I'm most surprised that there has been clear talk of this as late as 2003.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the heads up.

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Posted by: Freevolved ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 01:24AM

I had no idea.

I was told you can't have anal with your spouse, but I didn't know if it was a myth or not.

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Posted by: KC ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 01:44AM

because when I first got married (21 RM) I told my wife that we could not have anal sex because it was considered sodomy and it was forbidden by the church. Did this without knowning for sure, but just through rumors.

Well, fast forward 16 years and now at the ripe old age of 37 I have been trying for the last year or so to just put my finger in there, and she flips out. Yes, I wish she would just let me in the back door, just to spice things up. But she has this belief that it is a sin so end of discussion. Funny thing is, she LOVES it when I have one finger in her V, and with my other finger I massage around her anus, so much that she can have an orgasm. Yet, no no for even the tip of my finger going in. I HATE THAT THE CHURCH GETS INVOLVED WITH WHAT MARRIED PEOPLE DO IN THEIR OWN BEDS!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: lucky ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 08:45AM

KC Wrote:

> finger going in. I HATE THAT THE CHURCH GETS
> BEDS!!!!!!!!

go to 3:10 and see what MORmON ASSpostHOLE John Henry Smith told married couples about having sex with out the specific purpose of procreating.

how do you like that ????

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Posted by: Hayduke ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 09:41AM


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Posted by: KC ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 01:28AM

I refuse to read between the lines any more. If ORAL SEX is forbidden, JUST SAY IT ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate that they do not come out and say it. It is not in the handbook, it is not said at conference, it is not said at priesthood meeting, it is not said in HC meeting, and it is not said in sacrament meeting.


Just pisses me off.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: July 09, 2013 11:56PM

and LDS TBMs claim that Nothing has been watered-down / diluted ;)

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Posted by: anon ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 09:16AM

its about control, not sex

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Posted by: vic c ( )
Date: March 30, 2011 09:36AM

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Posted by: homoerectus ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 02:43AM

I dont know. But a my ex and I were told by a temple worker it was ok to actually have sex with our garments off.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2013 02:43AM by homoerectus.

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Posted by: Joy ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 04:01AM

So glad! My abusive ex-husband followed the letter of the law in that. Maybe that's one thing I can thank TSCC for.

My friend is a proctologist, and has some really gory tales to tell. Please consult a proctologist first.

But it's OK for a TBM to beat and strangle his wife.

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Posted by: allegro ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 07:17AM

But only if he is up to date with his tithing.

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Posted by: ladell ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 08:43AM

proctologist is such an outdated term from generations ago, I have never heard of anyone refer to themselves as a proctologist, perhaps you mean gastroenterologist?

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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 07:05AM

"Dear Heavenly Father, as we kneel before you this night we do so in preparation for having sex together. Please bless us and watch over us whilst we do so....wait...what?"

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Posted by: allegro ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 07:16AM

I read the quote by Packer--interesting. In a stake conference that I attended in Maryland around the mid 80's there was a question and answer period with members before one of the sessions. A friend's husband came out laughing because half the room was asking about oral sex. Evidently Packer stated it was the number one question asked. He stated that it was between a husband,wife and God. No more questions on that. Then a woman asked so you are saying it is ok? Packer responded, that was between her and her husband.

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Posted by: oldklunker ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 07:48AM

This came up in SS once and one of the older elders blurted out that oral sex was gross and didn't know why anyone would do that.

I remember looking at his wife and thinking," you poor sweet sister...your only gittin' it missionary style".

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Posted by: Makurosu ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 07:51AM

Two year old thread.

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Posted by: Jesux of Nazdaq ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 08:35AM

Yes, but still interesting. The 2003 article doesn't explicitly say oral sex and it seems to be talking about pre-marital sex.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 09:05AM

It's funny that they claim oral sex is unnatural. If you have the stomach for it, you can find monkeys have oral sex on youtube. You can also find all kinds of animals having gay sex as well.

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Posted by: mrtranquility ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 10:38AM

The 1st prez under SWK issued an official statement banning the practice in the 80s. It was also added as a TR interview question. My bishop brother said it created a sh!tstorm of headaches for him as the couples started lining up outside his office door to "repent" of this "unholy and impure" practice.

I think the sh!tstorm crept right up the chain of command as my brother related that some time later when they received a new booklet of TR forms which has the TR questions printed inside the cover, and the question was gone. There was never any official letter announcing its removal. It was just gone, poof, without a trace.

The whole f'ing thing was nothing more than a Chinese fire drill. As soon as it got to be too big of a headache for the suits at the COB the wind shifted and drove their "inspiration" in another direction.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2013 10:39AM by mrtranquility.

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Posted by: dragoneer27 ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 10:44AM

The BoM says the natural man is an enemy of god so shouldn't unnatural sex be a good thing?

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Posted by: ZAP ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 02:25PM

The Internet has changed the world. It has also brought sexual openness and awareness to every home in a way never seen before.

A recent poll said that nearly 80% of the population under 30 approve of gay marriage. That's the "Internet Generation" who have received much of their sex education there.

As the baby boomers die off, those percentages across the ENTIRE population will grow dramatically. And the boomers will start disappearing in only 10 to 15 years!

The church faces a tidal wave of new attitudes in a relatively short time and it is totally unprepared. When "sodomy" gains wide social acceptance, what is left for the church to disapprove?

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Posted by: elciz ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 02:51PM

I wouldn't even worry what the old geezers say. They are no experts on sex, no experts on relationships, they are not oracles that speak to God, they are just old, sexless, farts.

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Posted by: rationalguy ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 02:51PM

They'd dearly love to police the marital bedroom. It's a very tempting tool for producing the guilt that's necessary for mind control. Right now, though, they are smart enough to realize that it produces a backlash. That's because people are smarter now and often quick to resent invasions of privacy by anyone. Mormons go quite a ways with allowing the church to pervade their lives, but there are limits. It's just human.

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Posted by: rationalguy ( )
Date: July 11, 2013 09:17PM

Getting vague about things is always their fallback position.

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: July 10, 2013 03:09PM

What pisses me off is how today they aren't direct about it and they leave it up to you and your spouse to interpret whether it is right or wrong, which inevitably leaves certain Mormons in a marriage paranoid about whether certain acts are sinful or not. Just to be on the safe side they simply avoid it resulting in not having a good sex life.

I probably would have been one of those had I married in the church. I probably would have started feeling guilty about oral sex thinking that it wasn't natural or that it was a selfish, immoral act to pleasure oneself. I probably would have stuck to kissing and missionary style sex, while other more lucky Mormons would rationalize doing it and been able to enjoy the benefits of a wide range of sexual acts.

Either say its bad or it isn't, because members, especially the older ones, are going to remember that they preached against it in the past and members will forever be debating about whether it is or isn't right. Don't just get all vague about it.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: July 12, 2013 05:51AM

Whatever hetero couples want to do it seems, the CULT lets them do it, even rape of wives apparently.

You can't attack gays if you attack "normal" sex.

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Posted by: mysid ( )
Date: July 12, 2013 07:54AM

It's quite simple. The more babies a Mormon couple has, the most future tithepayers the LDS Church gets. Ergo, the LDAs Church has to discourage any sexual activity which is non-reproductive, such as masturbation, oral, and anal.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2013 07:55AM by mysid.

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Posted by: sherlock ( )
Date: July 12, 2013 08:31AM

Harold B Lee: "to engage in any kind of perversions of this sacred God-given gift of procreation would be sure to bring down the condemnation of the Lord whom we would offend were we to engage in any such practice."

Brother Lee is the same Lord God who supposedly had sexual intercourse with his daughter Mary? If it is, either he's a little more open minded than you give him credit or he's far from being a suitable exemplar in these matters.

One final thing Harold, did God actually tell you that oral sex was wrong? I mean did he really specifically say this to you? How did you get on to this topic? Did you raise it or did he? If he didn't actually tell you this, then you perhaps need to be a bit more careful in assuming to speak on his behalf.

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Posted by: ladell ( )
Date: July 12, 2013 09:01AM


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Posted by: Anonymous User ( )
Date: July 12, 2013 09:00AM

It's even mentioned in the Endowment ceremony...

"Let us go down Michael...."

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