I am still trying to figure out my own beliefs which currently are: I want, and I guess choose to believe in God/Christ and hope they exist but am not sure. How can anyone be totally sure? I try to live a moral life and want to do good. Would I be considered and "Agnostic Christian" or "Christian Agnostic?" (I don't know which would be the correct way to write that)

I like to counsel my kids to work towards being able to truly say, "I am happy."

That's what I want them to be!

Why be a label, when you can be an attribute?

Keep in mind that it's okay to be "on a search" and to not have your beliefs cast in stone. Mormonism has trained you to think that you must have all the answers, but that simply isn't so. It took me a long time to be comfortable with ambiguity.

I agree. There is nothing wrong with being unsure. Maybe struggling Christian would work for you. If not, dont worry

Since you are posting at this site, I will consider that you are of LDS background, but currently having a faith crisis of some sort.

There is a logical progression in Mormon theology that I believe suggests a safe course of action for folks such as yourself. I will begin with the premise that two foundational LDS teachings are true, and then logically proceed to a surprising conclusion of what *must* be true as result, if these two premises are indeed true. And doing so will also suggest a safe course of action for yourself.

The premises are these:

1. As stated by Parley Pratt, "men, god, and angels are of the same species". And as stated by Lorenzo Snow, "as man is, god once was, and as god is, man may become". This is a foundational LDS teaching.

2. As taught by *numerous* LDS GA's over the course of many, many decades, there is no such thing as "Ex-nihilo Creation". Google this if you do not know what it means, but it basically means that there is no magic "Harry Potter Magic Wand" that creates blessings, or anything else, out of thin air. This also is a foundation LDS teaching.

Now, if these two premises are true, it necessarily means that whether in heaven, or on earth, all blessings that are created must be created by people, because it leaves no other mechanism for their creation. In other words, even if "blessings are poured upon your head from heaven", it still means that one or more of the *people* in heaven created the blessing and gave it to you.

If the two premises are true, even God is but a heavenly man, as is Jesus. So even if Jesus gives you a blessing of any kind, it still means that one or more people had to create the blessing first.

That conclusion *must* be true if the two premises it rests on are true. Similarly, if the conclusion is false, then one or more of the two premises are false.

And we can take it further...

Since, according to this conclusion, everything is ultimately created by people (whether those people are in heaven or on earth), then it necessarily follows that any idea, principle, or doctrine that can help people here on this earth must also be able to help people in heaven. And the converse is true-- i.e., if the idea, principle, or doctrine has no intrinsic value to the people here on this earth, independent of any idea or consideration of heaven, then it similarly has no intrinsic value to the people in heaven.

If it works there (in heaven), then it should at least have a theoretical foundation to be able to work here (on earth), and if it doesn't work here, it won't have any value there either.

In other words, you can evaluate the efficacy of an idea, principle, or doctrine, purely from the point of view of the question "how can that idea be a benefit to the people here on this earth, independent of any idea of heaven?"

I call this test the "Value Test".

And the Value Test *must* be a legitimate test if the two premises it rests on are true.

Now, here is where it gets interesting... since the Value Test posits that any idea, principle, or doctrine can be safely evaluated solely from it's theoretical ability to benefit society here on the earth, independent of heaven, exactly how does this evaluation differ from the evaluation that an atheist would make?

Think about it.

The bottom line that I would say to you is to use your critical thinking skills, and evaluate everything from within the construct of how it may, or may not, benefit society here on this earth, independent of any idea of heaven. Even if you believe in heaven, if the two premises above are true, then anything that has no theoretical societal value here similarly would have no societal value to the people in heaven.

And in that way you can filter out most of the superstitions.

Nevin Pratt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 01:49AM by nevinpratt.

You lost me at Parley Pratt

You may need to realize that there are views of God and Christ that are very different than LDS. For instance many churches are not Biblical lieralists,are much less controlling and give more and ask less. You might want to do some research,shop around and see if something else fits. Even.if it doesnt,you have learned something.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 01:54AM by bona dea.

I found it an interesting journey when I finally had time to delve into the subject and mystery of religion and beliefs through the ages and places in the world.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, but I guess I was really just asking if "Agnostic Christian" is a thing. I was having a conversation with a good friend that was asking about my beliefs. I told them I lean toward being an Agnostic Christian. I am not really worried about labels, but that was the best way I could come up with to describe what I believe.

Sure -- generally it's termed agnostic theist, but agnostic Christian works just fine.

Liked to read New Testament when I first left, mainly words of Jesus.

Like Sandra Tanners terminology differences

http://utlm.org/onlineresources/terminologymain.htm

And checked groups out with internet search "name" and news, or issues and problems.
Basically enjoy Sundays at Home with SO!

Compared bible to gospel principle manual here.
https://mit.irr.org/gospel-principles-and-bible-introduction

If you have any friends who are active in other churches, you may want to go visit with them. I did this and was completely freaked out by one, and found a couple others strange, but interesting.

You may never get to a point that you can affirmatively claim to "know" something about God is true anymore. It's different from being a Mormon. It's more humbling and at times confusing. You may have experiences along the way that will address your suspicions about God.

Keep an open mind. This site will certainly have lots of folks who can explain the value of atheism. I continue to believe in a Creator as the best explanation for our existence and the origin of all things, though that's a minority view on this site.

Take your time. Continue to pray. If there is no God, there's no harm. If there is, it may open communication. Try to do good things for others. In this activity you may have some great experiences, both spiritual and personal.

if you believe jesus lived and died for you then you are a professing christian no matter what anyone else says. Agnostics believe in the possibility of a higher power but are not sure of what exactly that higher power might be. Atheists believe they are justified in rejecting all notions of any higher power, therefore they believe creation was an accident and following this line of thought everything on and in the earth has no intended purpose, therefore our lives are insignificant in relation to the universe.

All these previous posters have give good advice, eg,checking something has value is very good, and the information by the poster on never knowing for sure is also good. Checking biblical truths is also good advice, so is attending other churches with friends.

I married a presbytarian minister's son and my mother in law was a bit worried that her son was marrying a mormon-by-birth but apparently presbytarianism is rather close to mormonism when it comes to interpreting the bible, although hubby and I disagree on the concept of trinity.

I left church years ago and many years later established a belief in God and in prayer and was putting off deciding if the church was true (coz that would just make familial relationships so much easier) and found out it wasn't. So, I really did it the other way around from most here and gained a faith in a creator before I decided whether or not the mormons did indeed have another testament of christ.

In case you were unaware there are legends of Jesus as far away as rural Japan. Some english people believe Jesus visited england with his uncle joseph of arimathea who was a tin merchant trading between the biggest mine in europe in roman times: in celtic cornwall in south east england, and the middle east. The Church of England song 'Jerusalem' refers to this legend.

Bottom line is that this is a work in progress that will never be completed, just like learning a new language or craft - you will never be done, there will always be more you can learn about either yourself, people in general and the sciences.

You could start with researching evidence for and against intelligent design and start from there, if you wish.

You don't need to define your beliefs. Perhaps beliefs defy definition anyway.

I can't speak for others, obviously, but my spiritual perspective and the way I see the world changes every day. Every moment really. I have things that I believe sometimes, but then later I believe something totally different. And I'm okay with that.

When people ask me what I believe in or what I think about God, I tell them that I have things I think about those subjects but that I lack the words to articulate those things. Which is true. Words are insufficient to describe the mysteries of the universe. Besides, anytime I try to tell someone what I think, I always immediately wind up thinking the opposite is true.

Early in my UU journey, I took a class using one of their curriculum, called "Building Your Own Theology." I still get the book out occasionally and update what I think my theology has evolved into. I don't consider myself an Athiest because I find myself looking for things that keep me on a spiritual journey. I just don't believe in the supernatural.

So I currently define myself as a Progressive Christian Universalist Latter-Day Feminist with Buddhist leanings.

People that know that I left the church will ask me what I believe now.

I tell them that I dont really know what I believe and I am ok with not knowing. I tell them I try to treat others the way I want to be treated.

It takes time to find your way after leaving the LDS fold. It took me 13 years after I left before I found a new faith. Take your time; it's your journey.

You want to believe in God and Christ but not sure and also want to know how to know for sure. Here is my advice on those issues.

Have you had no spirit/spiritual experiences (not just feelings) to recognize the existence of God? No prayers answered in a miraculous way?

It's ok to not be sure about God ----- my opinion is that 99% (based on being Mormon and Born Again Christian before becoming a Spiritist) are not sure because they have not had any clear spirit/spiritual experiences! There is no way I could have gone to atheist based on the spiritual experiences I had as a Mormon which have been multiplied greatly as a
Spiritist.

You really should ask God to give you some proof that He exists ----- God/spirit guides in the after life really do want to help you but you have to be open to their help by asking for knowledge or something and being a little persistent if necessary. You can ask by simple prayer or in a meditation or just ask in your mind periodically. I would recommend general meditation each day because I feel it really helps you become more open but that is up to you.

I would concentrate on whether God exists. I don't believe in the Bible or Christ based on my spiritual experiences but you can ask that. Make sure you ask about Christ and the Bible in separate requests.

Answers most times come very subtly (sp?) and unexpectedly so try to be alert to "any" answers to what you are asking.

I can't guarantee anything but it worked for me!