Hi, I've been lurking around here and mormonthink.com for quite some time. A little backstory: my husband and I both were raised in the church. My husband went on a mission and shortly afterwards went inactive. Basically while he was gone his entire family fell apart leading to his father being ex'd and his mom resigning. His oldest sister is still TBM, very molly mormon and she's the only one of the 8 of them still active.

My parents are very TBM nazis and my sister is also, but my 3 brothers aren't really interested in remaining. Not resigning just don't bother going. I come from a blended family and there is a history of abuse with my stepmother and lots of back story there.

So, I was the TBM spouse until a few years ago. I kinda started questioning things, and it wasn't really until last year that I finally started doing actual research. I read the CES letter and oh my gord, my mind was blown. My entire foundation was shaken and it was a very scary thing for me. I realized that I can't continue going to church and getting lecture after lecture from random people that I need to get my life in order and get my family to the temple when it's not something I even believe in. I decided to tell my parents and ended up being on my own as my husband was working, and I was so sick with anxiety leading up to it, it was awful. I'm easily bullied by my parents, they treat me completely different than my siblings, and so standing up and telling them that I'm no longer interested in attending church anymore and that I don't believe it, has been a very frightening, yet empowering experience for me.

We also have three daughters, our oldest is 16 and is severely disabled, a 12 year old, and a 9 year old. The middle one has been baptized but no longer believes either. She was 9 when she was baptized because we were semi-inactive by that point and I didn't feel she was ready. My youngest wanted to be baptized so I had her take the missionary discussions because I felt like that was a good starting point. (This was before I decided to leave myself.) She changed her mind and I kind of got hit with "What the heck am I doing? If I don't believe it, why am I facilitating her joining at such a young age?" I don't believe children should be baptized, especially into the LDS church. I don't think there's any way a child can understand the commitment they're making. So I told her I'd prefer if she wait until she was an adult to make that decision. She was fine with it. My parents obviously were not.

So, currently we are going to resign officially and include our 12 year old in our letter. We are waiting until my parents move out of the stake before we do it, just because they are insistent that we should just keep our names on the rolls because it doesn't really matter and we'll "be back someday". I've basically given up trying to explain to them my position because they really just dismiss everything I say by saying that I haven't studied enough or I haven't spent enough time. Basically, I haven't done enough to get the same answer they got, so I'm clearly doing something wrong.

Anyway, so that's a little about me. I figured I should just join the forums so I can post questions and whatnot. And my first would be, my TBM sister-in-law, while talking about church history, said she doesn't understand why it's a big deal since that's not the way the church is run today. And I wasn't entirely sure how to respond to that. I think everyone picks their "thing" that bothered them the most about the doctrine and mine was definitely polygamy and basically everything concerning Joseph Smith seeming like a real piece of work. So I'd be interested in any advice on how to discuss why the current church is still the same-ish, I guess.

Sorry for the long post btw.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 12:48AM by siflbiscuit.

Welcome to the place

Thank you for your post. Welcome.

Hola, Siflbiscuit!

I hope you enjoy your time here. Leaving the church is quite the adventure and it's always nice to bask in the "I am not alone" feeling that a community like this can extend to you.

The "Man-made-ness" of la iglesia mormona is quite evident, if you're just looking at facts, events and outcomes. Even those who stay for the "community" aspects admit this, and so they concentrate on the "...well, it's not all bad; there are many good people..." aspect of the organization.

But it's toxic, pure and simple. Obeying the rules of a scheme that says you won't get 'paid off' until after you die only seems to work if you can convince yourself that misery is happiness.

That's what I think. I could be right.

Lying about its history is a current, ongoing offense. Extorting tithing by threat of eternal consequences (all phony) is a current offense. Teaching tiny children to say "I know" is wrong, they can't possibly know. The authoritarianism of the church is an offense just by itself.

Unless I miss my guess, you will get a lot of good suggestions on this board! Stay tuned.

Welcome to the Board! I too am waiting until I move away to resign and my mother is also pretty insistent I keep my name on the records and thinks I will be back someday. It will be a relief when I can finally move away sometime this year. I wish I could give you advice on how to discuss with your SIL but in my experience trying to discuss with a mormon is like trying to discuss with a brick wall. I wish you the best of luck though. I hope you can find a way to get through to her.

Congratulations! People like you are waking up and heading for the exits. Others here can give you specific talking points, but believers will usually only look at church sanctioned info. The essays on the church website...

Look at Grant Palmer's speeches (former LDS, historian, author, CES teacher) at Ex-Mormon Foundation conference... Tom Phillips had a 2nd Annointing and left the church (Mormon Think).

Good luck to you and your family!

A big point is a foundation built on lies is a house built on shifting sand. It dooped people then so why not now? Why hide info for generations? Why sudden amnesia of facts or discredit deceased? Lies bring on more complex lies.

siflbiscuit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I'd be
> interested in any advice on how to discuss why the
> current church is still the same-ish, I guess.

Welcome to RfM! Regarding your SIL's question, you can ask her if Joseph Smith was a true prophet and the gospel is the same yesterday, today and forever, why has the church changed so much? Isn't what JS taught true? Isn't what BY taught true? What about the BoM, if it was truly translated by JS, why all the changes over the years? Was he mistaken? Why did the most true book ever written need re-writes?

The Mormon church was born of lies and some of those lies were so egregious they had to be changed, such as polygamy, blacks and the priesthood, the treatment of gays, etc. Those changes came not as a result of prophecy or revelation, but because of societal pressure.

The fact is, most Ex-mos know more about the church than most members do, and the answers are out there. You can find a ton of info here and on the linked websites on the home page of exmormon.org. Knowledge is power!

As a response to your SIL, you might educate her on the Church being built on a foundation of lies. Begin with the 9 known versions of the First Vision, the 3 known versions of finding the gold plates, the so-called "translation" of them being through the occult method of "scrying" - with the same stone he defrauded his neighbors with while treasure-digging.

Mention his adulterous affairs which he lied to EVERYONE about, all the while claiming to receive "revelations" from GOD.

There's so much more. Or you can just give her the CES Letter and tell her: "THIS IS WHY I DON'T BELIEVE"!!!

Good luck as you deal with this .....

Welcome! Many good supportive folks here with the freedom to think for yourself! Cheers ;-)

Sorry just thought of these

http://vimeo.com/112612925
Ruthann and
Kenn Sullivan share their story at exmormonfoundation conference
Blog linkingarms.org

? = Seeds of thoughts. One DS mentioned to us was:
Do you how many companies the church owns?
When did the church stop reporting the financial reports with the members? Why trust the top leaders when they demand blind obedience? What do the lesson manuals teach the kids in Seminary?

Agree that LDS essays are best for tbms when they want to look into them. Many choose to keep relationships

Also cool
http://www.mormoninfographics.com

"while talking about church history, said she doesn't understand why it's a big deal"

Because history deals in facts. Facts about Joseph Smith, upon whose character the church's founding mythology is based. Facts that prove the Book of Abraham to be a fraud and destroy his claim to be a prophet. Facts about his lies and womanizing.


"since that's not the way the church is run today"

And what, you might ask her, is so wonderful about the way the church is run today? Correlation. Mind-numbing meetings. Endless busy work. Superficial "friendships." Intrusive interviews. Institutional misogyny. A 10% contribution for the privilege of cleaning church bathrooms. General Authority worship. Blind obedience. Guilt. Fear. Depression. Yes indeed, the way the church is run today is a marvelous work and a wonder… that anyone would put up with it.

The baby blessing makes a child a "member of record" and means they'll be harassed as they grow older.

Congratulations for being brave enough to study the hidden parts of Mormonism. You've found your way here and you're standing up against pressure all around you.

You're not alone. Thousands read and post here every day.

Take care.

I agree with Cheryl. Go ahead and resign now, and include *all* of your children. You do not want any harassing visits from the primary, YW, etc. Have the kids sign their names to the letter.

Good luck and let us know how things go. Never forget that you don't need to explain yourself to anyone. You can simply say that it was a private family decision.

Ditto here.

Resigning is about you and your family. How long must you wait to show others that you are in charge and it is a fact they cannot alter? Until you resign your non-belief is considered a "phase".

Waiting for the relocation of the parents will not guarantee anonymity as confidentiality does not exist in the LDS church even if requested. The pain for them will be the same either way.

The sooner the better IMO. Parents will be hurt at first but will be forced to process the fact that the decision is real, final and that your family has the autonomous authority to operate outside their influence as it should.

Resigning will end the possibilities that members will plan efforts without your knowledge to entice the children back into the fold. Protect your kids until they solidify their critical thinking skills.

BTW, welcome!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2015 09:31AM by AmIDarkNow?.

I think it's better to do it while they are strong and healthy. Too many wait until parents are old and ailing, then they think they must wait until they're gone to avoid upsetting them.

a difficult time over coming back, I resigned. I had never planned on resigning, but I wanted to make a statement. It blew the minds of those who thought I really believed deep down. It also was very liberating.

As for your SIL, if she doesn't want to hear it, she won't listen. I really don't think there is anything you can say that will change her mind.

I'm so glad you said that...it was a big "aha!" for me. I realize my loved ones also are clinging to that thought, and now I know how to really clarify it for them.

Welcome from me, too!
I just want to add the observation that Mormonism teaches us that we can't trust ourselves and that the truth is outside of ourselves- we have to find it or be taught it. When someone pushes you on why something has to matter or why something is important, there are many reasonable answers and many logical explanations. You can go to the CES letter or mormonthink or here or many other sources to answer why history or polygamy (or any particular thing) matter.
But. You actually already know the answer because you lived it. You knew those things mattered to you as soon as you recognized that discovering the real truth made you feel terrible.
Just a thought.

Welcome to the journey?

I haven't any advice. But I want to thank you for posting and wish you and your family well.

Human

Congrats on your exit and welcome to the board.

I'm not sure how productive it can be to discuss the problems of Mormonism with a true believer. As Mormons, we were once taught to be a member missionary and to seek out opportunities to share our testimony or positive facts about the church. In my opinion, that missionary zeal sometimes carries over as people transition out of the church. Just as everyone is not receptive to Mormon missionary efforts, many Mormons are not receptive to "anti" Mormon conversion attempts.

If your TBM family genuinely wants to under stand things from your perspective then engage in a conversation about it. I would be reluctant to initiate the dialogue without their prodding first. This TBM family members seems at least somewhat willing to hear you out. So try to keep the conversation respectful and keep personal anger out of it.

Blacks and the priesthood is a good example of how teachings have to adapt over time. The Mormon church dug in its heels but eventually had to change. You can link that to marriage equality and LGBT issues and discuss how the Mormon church will have to walk back recent statements in a few decades. Oh, how the church has changed the history and narrative of the Book of Mormon as it is confronted with archeological and scientific facts. That's a good example of change.

The best thing you can do know is to focus on YOUR family. Since you're not paying tithing and wasting a day at church, make Sunday YOUR family fun day. Go to the movies, play at the park, go skiing or beaching, plan a day trip, etc. and etc. Your happiness, free time, family fun, and finances will soon be the envy of your TBM family. That does more to strengthen the ExMormon cause than any historical tidbit or doctrinal discussion, IMO.

Welcome to the board!

Once you are done with the validating stage (consciously or unconsciously making triple dog sure you made the right decision) you won't worry about answering your SIL as much. All those conversations we have in our head with our TBM people eventually quiet down as you become more comfortable with reality.

I relate to the disabled child challenge, got that as well.

Welcome to RFM Stifbiscuit....

You did a very courageous thing by leaving and telling your

parents. Now your new life begins and it will be beautiful.

This is the place to be sad, angry, happy, whatever. We

understand. Hang with us, you won't be sorry.

Welcome!
The post wasn't too long, it was concise and told your story well.
Sorry about the parents issue...it's one many of us share, though.

Ugh the questioning my decision has been some of the hardest. I think I am moving past that though and my husband is an amazing help with anything I have questions on. He's gone through that already and is well past it. We actually were talking about how everything is so obvious to us now that it's so so hard to understand how our family members can be so blind. I do love the fact that we are in it together because I really feel heartbroken hearing about a TBM spouse leaves the "apostate" and allows the church to completely destroy their family. I've definitely noticed too though how much my own viewpoint has changed towards my husband even since I extricated myself. I don't feel like he's "less" and I don't feel contemptuous, I don't think he's just being stubborn. I am able to hear what he's saying about his beliefs and actually respect it. It's amazing how much closer we have gotten instead of it tearing us apart.

It's wonderful that you and your husband are able to make this journey together.