He turned 8 in June, he's been planning for this since he was 4. I've put it off and put it off, but now he's insisting. My VT who is also his Primary teacher brought it up a few months ago and thats all he can talk about. What do I do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2015 10:51PM by fatpanda.

Is your hubby out too?.... Maybe you could take your kid to a friends hot tub... or wait until summer and have a do it yourself baptism in a cool lake or river... That way your kid can still say, "yeah I was baptized". And it will still be a cool memory for him, but kid won't be on the church records... Make it your own special little ceremony.

I love this idea. Thank you!!'

How bout show some gonads as a parents, and say NO WAY until you are 18 and an adult, thus able to legally decide for yourself

See, the thing is, up until a little while ago. Getting baptized was the plan. So for me to all of a sudden change it and be all authoritarian about it would probably be irresponsible and insensitive. I want to be in control as the mother of course, but I also want him to know that his wants and needs are considered.

"I used to think baptism was fine, but now I know it isn't."

It's like having kids take a vitamin every day, then learning it has a harmful additive. Would a reasonable parent let a child keep taking it because they like the cute shape or flavor? No.

A loving parent would say, "I used to think these vitamins were fine, but now I know they're not."

Nothing wrong with that, especially if you give some age appropriate backup information.

"The dyes and preservatives in these chewy vitamins have made some kids feel tired and be less alert at school. I don't want that to happen to you, so I'm buying another kind of supplement. It won't taste as good and the other kids might say your mom is mean, but I want you to feel well and be attentive to your studies more than I want to be popular."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2015 06:00AM by Cheryl.

This is very helpful thank you. We actually have done this with vitamins and other things. Great idea, Thank you!

Ask him if he would rather be baptized or go to Disneyland.

Lol I think I might have him get baptized instead.

I don't think you appreciate the damage being a Mormon can cause. I say this realizing this was a response to a funny post, so maybe that was a funny reply.

Mormonism makes its money off of opportunities like this. The only people that will mess with their model are the Mormon parents that stop their kids from becoming Mormon.

Of course I realize the damage. I regret this thing entirely. It's only caused confusion. I will do everything to keep this baptism from happening, in fact it is NOT happening. I just thought there may be some ideas of how to do so lovingly. Without further damage.

Guess I lost the humor on a Recovery from Mormonism forum of letting a kid get baptized in Mormonism over taking them to Disneyland.

Funny.

You say you've been putting it off, but have you tried having a candid conversation with him about why you no longer think he should be baptized?

I have not come out and said I don't think you should be baptized. I'm afraid to make things worse. Maybe he will forget.

Not if they've wanted something for 1/2 of their young lives.

He does not want to be baptized. He's been told he wants to be baptized. The church excels at getting the kids and any impressionable person not capable of defending themselves. That's why its a cult. It has no shame twisting any vulnerable person's arm and then hiding behind authority and pretended benevolence for excuses on why they violated said individual's sacred space, even to the point of undermining the child's confidence and respect in his own parents if it comes to that. Say no, but explain why. Do not be overbearing. If you are harsh with no explanation, and the kid tells someone in the church, they will turn that into evidence in his mind that that is the devil trying to keep him from being baptised because it's the right thing to do, and then he'll want to be baptized even more.

Hi fatpanda, I’m going to give you some frank advice here, since you asked for advice.

To cure this, you probably need to stop sending your son to primary. You don’t want to attend this church, why would you send him there? The primary classes are a very well thought out indoctrination program for your son’s mind. It’s not some innocent place you send your kids to meet friends. They aren’t teaching your kids some cute, innocent, spirituality … they are indoctrinating their minds to be future cult members, making them want that, and it seems to be working as planned.

You’ve sort of allowed this to get to this point by sending your kids there, thinking it was harmless (as you indicated in another post). And now you can see it is getting complicated, and now there are beginning to be consequences. You will probably have to ‘bite the bullet’, and just pull them out, and find them new friends to be involved with. And it will probably be a little uncomfortable for them until they adjust. Otherwise, what are you going to do? Just let it continue to develop, until your kids are fully indoctrinated cult members? You can’t just keep ‘stringing the Mormons along’, as a place for your kids to meet play friends. And you can’t expect your kids to understand the situation they are facing either.

I think you underestimate the dangers of these primary classes, it’s the beginning of the cult programming, and it has been well thought out. It’s not a day camp, its mind warping classes. Get them out of there. That would be my frank advice. It worries me that you said in another post that you don’t think primary is such a bad thing for kids. Well, it is. You need to protect your kids. They are indoctrinating them, that’s the point of primary. It isn’t a play school. If you need to, take them to another type of church ... but get them away from the Mormons.

Best regards, and I wish you all the best in your exit from Mormonism.

No one could have said it more frankly.

I agree. Thank you for your frankness. No excuses. Right?

I'm sorry if I don't know the backstory but if you are out or on the way out, why do you have a VT? And if you know the truth, why not share it with your child? 8 year olds understand way more than most parents give them credit for. Continuing to encourage him or even allow him to go to these indoctrination classes seems akin to a pacifist sending their child to an NRA weapons training camp.

I doubt he really wants to get baptised. I would guess he wants to 1) do what his friends are doing 2) get attention and presents.

Pulling him out of primary takes care of point 1. Next big hurdle is to make sure that he's not left feeling he's been left out in some way which gives the Mormons an 'in' later in life.

What's the one thing that you can talk to him about, which would put him off Mormonism for ever? For my kid, believe this if you can, it was the fact that they wouldn't be able to get tattoos when they were a grown-up.

I'm 5th generation bic.

"But I can't wait until I'm eight, for then I'll be baptized, you see."

If anyone had asked me if I WANT to get baptized (nobody ever did, but never mind that), I would have automatically given the correct response programmed into my kid brain since language happened for me.

After I turned 8, my baptism was scheduled. When it was time to get ready, I had been at my next door neighbor's playing with my friend. I dutifully returned home to get dressed for the event. Turns out that my inspired little brother had poured dirt into the gas tank of the family car. Wouldn't start. No way to get it fixed in time. My parents told me I would have to wait until the next month to get baptized.

I distinctly remember running back over to my neighbor's house, gleefully announcing, "Good news! I don't have to be baptized!"

22 years later I left the Church (35 years ago). You can spare your kid a lot of wasted life energy if you "parent up" and take care of it now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2015 04:23AM by beyondashadow.

Thank you for that insight. I will definitely parent up.

Kids don't have to do everything they want.

What do you mean he's insisting? He's 8. You're the parent.

You say, "No, if you want to be baptized, you're going to have to wait until you're 18."

I've been inactive since teenage but allowed my mother to take my daughter to nursery at church, then my son, then I started taking the kids. We moved out of the ward area 4 years ago and primary attendance has been sporadic ever since til non-existent over the past 18 months. Son doesn't really like church but is more likely to want bible stories at bedtime than daughter.

Parents have been pushing for my daughter's baptism but I kept putting it off, even though daughter asked me before she turned 8 and asked regularly after turning 8. My cousin, the bishop, will not allow a baptism until she had taken the lessons from the missionaries, so I wanted to check out what they would be telling her. I checked the church website topics, and the references which led me to reading other things.

I told my daughter whilst washing her hair in bath (nice quiet time together) that I had never decided if I believe the church or not, nor read the bom, so had been studying of late because I could not allow her to do something wrong, or that might lead her astray. I told her I had found out a few facts that were not quite the same as I had been taught so I would have to speak to her grandad about it for answers (still not done that).

I also told her that after going through all the lessons myself and young womens that I grew up thinking I wasn't good enough for anything and I didn't want her feeling like that. I did not veto baptism, in effect only delayed it til she's old enough to decide.

She asked me what I had found out, so I told her about John Taylor's european debate with the methodist minister and his denying polygamy when he had 12 wives back home in Utah.

Kids seen things so clearly - she said "but that's a lie. They lied".

She was my best mate the next day, random cuddles and kisses and "I love you". She was probably already beginning to feel 'unworthy' and I nipped it in the bud for her. My role as parent is to protect her from the crap I went through if I possibly can. I reminded her as well that Jesus didn't get baptised til he was 30 so he will not expect anything different from her, to do so would be unjust.

Tell your 8 year old the facts from the essays.

I have decided to tell my parents that my kids will not be getting baptised unless the lesson manuals have the same information as the official website, although I don't think this will actually ever happen. Perhaps you could do the same with the VT? I really do not think anyone can object to that nor label you 'anti'.

Make a "church doctrine test," that differentiates mormon doctrine from that of other churches. Make it hard.
Tell your 8-year old that when he/she can answer all of the questions correctly, and explain why he/she believes the mormon versions, he/she will have demonstrated the maturity and knowledge necessary to make an informed decision about baptism. Until then, he/she can't be baptized.

Your 8-year old doesn't "want to be baptized." He/she wants to fit in with friends/peers. Those two things aren't the same :)

You could be honest with him; just tell him why and begin the deprogramming process. Example: "Remember how in primary you were taught that Joseph Smith was the best guy ever? We found out that he lied about some things and we think you should know about them too. We love you and sometimes parents make mistakes but now that we know the truth we don't want to let people teach you wrong things anymore. We also found out that just because you turn 8 you aren't automatically accountable to Heavenly Father and you don't need to be baptized."

Your honesty now will go a long way towards your future relationship with your child.

Exactly. Just explain that you discovered that the Church was not completely honest when they taught you. Then have a few simple answers prepared if you receive a, "Like what?" sort of question.

When my son was getting ready to turn 8 the Primary Prez was all over his baptism. He was very immature,and I told the woman he wasn't ready. "WHAT???" she says. Couldn't figure out why I wasn't pushing the baptism. We quit going to church,and a year later we started attending a non-denom church. My son loved it from day one. They played outside,played with Legos,danced,sang,put on little plays,and had a 5 minute talk on a different virtue every month. That's all the 'churchy' stuff they did. All the kids were always so happy.

I like the "Jesus was not baptized until her was 30" part..

Is he still going to Primary? If so that is the problem. He's being asked about his baptism all the time. Get him out of there!