Dear RFM,

I done some things with a girl, things which are not by the worlds standards, immoral or unacceptable.

She's got guilty, she's confessed, I tried to deny it but have been caught out (and wouldn't have confessed it if otherwise). I've been bullied into a corner confessing.

I'm an endowed melch. priesthood holder, served a mission recently (not married) and they're threatening to put me before a kangaroo court.

I've been given weird restrictions already such as "don't take the sacrament", "you can't pray in classes", etc

This is making me very uncomfortable and very depressed. I do not want to be humiliated by a "court of love". I do not have a testimony.

Okay, here's what is going to happen.

You are going to be dealt with in one of two ways.

If you show remorse and are willing to follow the steps of repentance (onerous things like Church attendance, scripture reading, prayer etc) then you will likely only be disfellowshipped and placed on a years probation to see just how contrite you are.

If you lack remorse or give the impression that you will likely do it again, you will be excommunicated.

You do not need to attend a Church court, they can sit in judgement of you in absentia. You will be informed of the outcome by post.

You will not be humiliated by the court, you will be humiliated each and every Sunday as you have to refuse the Sacrament when it is offered to you, thereby alerting all the ward members near you that there is a problem.

If you don't have a testimony why are you still in the church?

Why are you giving them power over you?

You are allowing this to happen, yet you claim you do not believe? I'd also wonder why you call it a kangaroo court, they have a witness, she confessed, you broke the rules of the super-celestial club, so now you get to face their punishments. Their actions sound reasonable and they are following their rules to the letter.

Why does it bother you if you don't believe?

I am considering just turning away yes,

but I have some emotional challenges.. and its not going to be easy. I came to this board for support, not more scorn.

I'm guessing you are a 23 year old, lifetime Mormon.

You are in for a tough time, and not just the court thing.
You will have family disappointed in you, ward members gossiping about you, Church leaders sitting in judgement of you etc.

It passes.
They will move on to the next seven day wonder soon enough.

I am not a lifetime mormon,

I'm a convert of 6 years. Only have one other active member in my family (I worry about their reaction).

Yes the gossip, humiliation thing, etc is why I want to escape. What I've done is not strong enough for outright excommunication I've been told, but still...

Brit92 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not a lifetime mormon,
>
> I'm a convert of 6 years. Only have one other
> active member in my family (I worry about their
> reaction).
>

You don't believe in the church, but are going through the motions to keep another person happy?

Just repeat that to yourself several times and start to think if that is healthy for your emotional well being.

Do you have a plan to leave at all? Are you hoping something changes in the future to make your leaving less painful for yourself and your family member?

Okay, so they are disfellowshipping you - which means the punishments above but you will still receive the blessings of being allowed to pay tithing. (I'm not kidding).

This will be a long drawn out affair if you let it run its natural course. If you want to pull the plaster off quickly (resign or request excommunication), it will intensify the immediate sting but alleviate the long suffering.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 08:52AM by pettigrew.

brit92 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am considering just turning away yes,
>
> but I have some emotional challenges.. and its not
> going to be easy. I came to this board for
> support, not more scorn.

It's not scorn. It was a simple question. Why?

The church only has power over you that you give it. What is it that keeps you locked in, despite having no testimony? Many of us have been there, we knew it was false, yet went along with a bunch or crapola for years.

In hindsight I wished I had just ripped the bandage off, instead of enduring stupid stuff for a few years.

What keeps you stuck in the church? Why can you not be authentic to yourself? That is your true problem you want to start to think about. Getting through a disciplinary council, which by their rules you deserve, is only your beginning.

I don't think the other poster was showing you scorn just asking a question. If you don't have a testimony and you have no wife or kids who complicate the situation, other poster was asking why you would want to stay in this situation.

Then you say you have emotional challenges so that does make it harder to give up the church network. People here get that by and large.

Your choice is between staying in the LDS clan that wants to debase and humiliate you publicly for a period of time and if you allow them to do this you will be allowed to stay. They are punishing you for something that you did that virtually none of us would see as a sin, that is a sexual relationship as a 23 year old single person with another person. So you will have to pretend to be sorry about something that you and most of the modern world believe is not a sin.

Or you can resign ahead of excommunication and make yourself a new life which will be very lonely and sad at first but which most of us would say will lead you to a much better life. It's like childbirth, a lot of pain for a while and then an amazing new life.

To me those seem like your choices. Only you can choose. If you do choose the second option, known that in that difficult transitional period you will find unlimited support and if asked for, some good strategies from many well meaning people who have once walked in your shoes.

Good luck with your decision.

Recovery from Mormonism

Customer Service Line for Mormons is 1.801.PRO.PHET

The prophet will be with you shortly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 12:25PM by gentlestrength.

If you think the court will result in your excommunication, you could just submit a resignation letter and avoid all the hoopla.

Good luck, I know it's a tough situation to be in. However, it does open up the possibility of living most of your adult life free from the church.

procrusteanchurch Wrote:
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> If you think the court will result in your
> excommunication, you could just submit a
> resignation letter and avoid all the hoopla.

As far as I know, if you submit a letter of resignation, all proceedings against you must stop and they must honour your letter.

If they insist they are going ahead with it anyway, you tell them you are going to call Salt Lake Headquarters, because you know your letter must stop all proceedings. Tell them to just get the resignation done, or you'll call and have Salt Lake tell them to get it done.

It is a voluntary organization, so legally you are not a member any longer when you resign. Others on this board can give you links on how exactly to do it. But basically you just send them a notarized letter and as soon as they acknowledge receiving it, you are no longer a member.

For me, if they threaten me with excommunication, I will threaten them with legal action for defamation of character.

Good luck. You will find good people on this board to help you on your days going forward.

1. Is the "girl" of legal age?
2. Do you love her.
3. Has she been disciplined? Support her.
4. If you love her and she is of age, would you marry her? If so, marry before a hearing. fortunately, you will not have the wedding in the temple.

God no!
Do not marry her on the back of this emotional Church court stuff or as a way of avoiding a Church court.

rhgc, that is really bad advice.

Brit92, one of the best things you could do is nothing. Make no long term decision whatsoever. Wait for the situation to run its course and settle down. Then consider your options.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 08:56AM by pettigrew.

1. Yes, she is of the same age group
2. Good friends, but not in a loving relationship
3. Unknown, banned from contacting her by stake president
4. Unlikely to marry

...and if she's not pregnant with your child, and she's a true believing Mormon, then my advice is to

a) politely tell the girl that you have no future together

b) do not meet with the bishop for any disciplinary procedure

c) Inform the bishop that you do not accept his alleged mantle of authority over your life and activities

d) do not ever go back into an LDS chapel for any reason

e) do resign your membership in the LDS church

f) find yourself a nice non-Mormon girl to have a relationship with. Since 99% of Brits are not Mormon, you should be able to considerably increase your chances of finding a nice girl---if you're a nice, decent chap.

One more comment which might put things into perspective for you: Mormonism was founded by a man who had sexual relations with numerous women to whom he was not married. Joseph Smith lied to his wife and carried on with those women behind her back. To cover for his infidelity, he concocted a "revelation on plural marriage." That action led directly to his death. This is the religion that tries to make you feel guilty about your sexual activities.

So, if I were you, I wouldn't feel guilty about you, a single, healthy young man, fooling around with a single, adult young woman. As long as you didn't force yourself on her or lie to her, you have done nothing improper.

You are acting like the SP has real power over your life. He doesn't. You can contact the girl if you like. If she refuses, that is her choice, not her SP's.

You need to learn to tell these church busybodies where to stick it. My guess if you haven't had the emotional break with the church that empowers you to run your own life. The SP is just some guy playing in a club. He is not your boss, he doesn't run the government and he can't have you fired or arrested. You get no money from him, in fact he expects money from you. What is the worst thing he could do to you? The answer is kick you out of the church, and if you don't believe, that's nothing.

rhgc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 4. If you love her and she is of age, would you
> marry her? If so, marry before a hearing.
> fortunately, you will not have the wedding in the
> temple.

Shockingly bad advice to try and resolve this situation.

Which also completely ignores/dismisses whatever SHE might want.

If it were me, I would just resign and avoid the humiliation. You are then free to live an authentic life.

My advice:Resign your membership.

I wish when I was in my early 20's and fresh off my mission I was 'caught' having inappropriate relationships with my girlfriend, and then I was thrown out of the church as 'punishment'.

In hindsight it would have been the best thing to ever happen to me, instead of marrying a rebel Mormon girl in the temple, who then turned into ultra TBM woman, who then divorced me after I eventually realised the church was simply not true.

I wish I could have had all those years back that I gave to the stupid church. I wish I could have left at your age, I wish I could have realised it was all false back then.

You have received a lot of good advice, and in such a short time! I agree with most, nothing new to be added. Resign! You are a convert of six years? Who keeps you there? Resign and start living!

At first I was thinking you lived with your parents and this would be a $$$ thing.

The other family member has control over you?

Are you fully aware of the fraudulent church history?

Have you read the 'CES Letter'?

Sounds like you just need a little 'nudge' in order to fly away from the nest of Mormonism...


Ignore their 'court' and be on your way.

Breedum

Here’s a question that you should ask yourself and you should be totally honest with your reply.

Are you a member of the Corporation for social reasons or are you a member because you want a Christian life?

If your answer is ‘for social reasons’ then you’re in the wrong club my young friend. Your ‘friends’ will be that only for as long as you obey the rules and that, in anyone’s book isn’t friendship by any stretch of the imagination.

If you’re a member because you seek a Christian life then get out right now because you wont find it in the LDS. What you will find are teachings designed to guilt you into obeying all of their rules, rules that will control every aspect of your life till the day you die, man made rules that have little in common with Christianity.

Instead of blindly following the dictates of the Cult leaders whose only interest in you is for what they can get out of you, i.e. control of your life and your bank balance, why not look for a Church that follows Scripture? They’re out there and they have no interest in your money or in controlling your life.

You can't be humiliated if you take control and tell them where they can shove it. You don't believe? Then don't accept their authority, don't grovel. Just never go back.

Dude - just resign

My preference is to blow them off. They don't even deserve to know you've left the church. Just stop going. They can fret and spin their wheels all they want, but they have no power to do anything to you.

Let them hold the court in absentia. It just wastes their free time and does nothing to you.

That is true but then they may excommunicate you and I would not give them the satisfaction. Cease all contact with them and resign formally. Send your registration by registered mail so that you get a copy of their receiving your letter. Then they are not legally allowed to excommunicate a non-member.

Since you aren't BIC, you probably have friends or family that would be happy to support you in prying the cult's clutching fingers off of you. Can you get some counselling to help with the personal issues you are having! ( I guarantee being disfellowshipped will make your emotional issues worse.)

Find some new LDS friends and stay busy with the other non LDS parts of your life (sports, education, job) and drop by this site for some TLC and support when you need it.

Best of luck. You can do this. Many here have.

Are you living with your only LDS relative?
Is this relative contributing to you financially?

You are young and need to focus on your education. Everything else is secondary. Do not marry your friend. She stabbed you in the back without warning you of her decision to involve you in this unnecessary drama.

It seems as if there is no way out, but these people are volunteers. (Would you ordinarily be grilled about your sex life from your banker, real estate agent, accountant, car dealer...?) If you stay, your bishop might require weekly meetings to pry into your life, including masturbation questions. You are a grown man and don't need to submit to this humiliation and pretend court... Never trust anyone who claims to speak to god on your behalf or claims inspiration over your life.

You must feel trapped but in reality you have many options. You can choose to make new friends. You can move anywhere in the world. Many here wish they had a do-over at your age. Some are stranded with Mormon families, slowly suffocating, living a lie.

This tumultuous and stressful time will pass and in retrospect, become a fork in the road-in the rear view mirror, where you chose freedom, peace of mind, and self respect. It is a simple email away.

Best of luck to you in making a rational, logical decision. This group is a good resource to help you move forward since many have been in your shoes. Wishing you peace and happiness.

Per reports on this board, the results of a disciplinary council in such an instance can vary widely, from a metaphorical slap on the wrist, to disfellowshipment, to excommunication. Often (but not strictly speaking always,) the bishop already knows what he wants to do before the DC is even convened. You do not necessarily need to be present at the DC. You will be notified of the outcome.

One thing that you should know if you choose to go to the DC, is that bishops sometimes ask *very* invasive questions such as exactly what sex acts you did with your girlfriend, what positions did you use, how often did you engage, etc. Unbelievable, yes? But it happens. If you choose to go I would refuse to answer any such question. It is none of their business.

If you are disfellowshipped or excommunicated, you will be subject to public shaming and gossip in your ward.

Given the fact that you are an adult convert without a testimony, I would go ahead and resign. Complete directions for how to do so can be found at the link below. Make sure that you send your resignation letter or email to the Membership Records department in Salt Lake City along with a copy to your bishop. The MR department will provide oversight of the process and make sure that the bishop gets the paperwork done.

http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm

You have plenty of more humane options if you seek church membership. I would encourage you to explore the CoE, the Methodists, the Lutherans, the Presbyterians, etc. All of these denominations will not extort huge amounts of your time and money in the manner that the Mormons will. They will not much care if you are sleeping with your girlfriend or if you have a pint at the local pub. And they will not publicly shame you. You can attend any of these churches for as long as you like with no one pestering you to join.

As for your disappointed relative, don't let that affect you too much. Part of becoming an adult is making choices that sometimes disappoint those close to you. It is okay to do that. They are in charge of how they choose to feel about things. You, on the other hand, are in charge of your own life and how you choose to live it.

Keep checking back, and do let us know how things go.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 11:55AM by summer.

The first thing to learn about LDS, Inc. is that the only power they have over you is what you give them. Think of it as a club. They have the power to kick you out of their club, or to promote you and make you an officer. Outside the club, they are nobodies and have nothing.

If you don't believe, then why care what they do? I wouldn't even bother to show up for the kangaroo court, as you aptly put it. If they ex you, how does that impact your life? If you believe, it imperils your soul. If not, then you just lost membership in a club.

This is your chance to walk away. Spend the time learning why the church is full of crap. Get the facts behind you. Try reading the CES letter: http://cesletter.com/ It will tell you why you shouldn't worry.

As others point out, if you care, you can resign now. You can also participate in the court, but don't expect it to be fair or loving. My personal choice would be to ignore the sums and let them waste their time exing you in absentia. Let them play their little games while you have an actual life.

Several have already pointed out that the only power that church leaders have is what you give them, so I need not say it again. True words, though, and I just want to "bear testimony" of that.

One of the things that young Mormons cheat themselves out of is normal sexual development. In addition to being set up for public shame and shunning, you are being set up for a lack of normal development. There's no good to be had by subjecting yourself to more of this. Cut your losses and thumb your nose at any consequences. You now can just a.) do nothing, or b.) submit your resignation from the church before they have the chance to either ex you or disfellowship you. See instructions on this site's home page for submitting your resignation.

Once you cut your losses, it only gets better. I bear another solemn testimony of this, and others here on this board will have my back on that.

I was ex'd for basically the same thing when I was around your age. The difference is I had also been inactive for at least 7 years, and my fiancee was a nevermo. I didn't know any of the men who were intent on dragging me into their court to have me tell every detail of my sex life.


Hell was going to have to freeze over before I would have done such an insane thing. I threw their summons in the fireplace and didn't show up for their emotional rape session.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 12:16PM by madalice.

How did they react to your no-show? Did they inform you of their decision? How did it read?

You say you don't have a testimony, but do you know all the evidence that proves the church is not true? Definitely read the CES letter. This will help you be confident in your feelings of unbelief. This church hides this information as well as they are able, but it is available online. The Mormon church is NOT what it claims to be, so there is absolutely no reason for you to stay for the abuse they dish out.

You say you have emotional problems that will make it difficult for you to simply leave this church. I don't know what you mean specifically, but if you feel you will be too depressed to leave, see a doctor. She/he will be able to proscribe medication to get you through if you need it. Although you may feel that leaving will cause more turmoil for you, that is just not true. Staying in the Mormon church and wasting your life allowing them to abuse and control you will be depressing, tumultuous, and damaging. The abuse is not going to end after this situation. It will go on and on and that cannot be good for anyone, especially someone with emotional issues.

You have done nothing wrong sexually, in my opinion and many others. As long as you and your friend were both consenting adults and no one is cheating on a spouse, I don't see any problem. Your only problem is the church you belong to does think what you have done is wrong. What do you think? Try to figure out if YOU really believe what you did is wrong. If your church had no teachings about sexual activity, would you feel guilty? Try to figure this out after reading the CES letter and finding out that the mormon church is not true. I bet any guilt you feel about what you did with your friend will fade away.

Mormon standards of what is right and wrong sexually are made up so that they can control you. Your private sex life is yours, and it is emotionally damaging to have others judging you about it. As long as one follows the law, it is yours to decide.

Take control of the situation. If you do not believe and want to leave your church, follow the link another commenter posted and resign. If you would rather allow this church to judge and shame you, that is also a decision you can make. However, if you stay and allow them this power over you, it is still you making the decision. Either way you will have to make the decision and take responsibility for it, along with the consequences. What consequences would you rather live through? The judging, shaming, and abuse or the freedom and responsibility to make your own judgements and live your own life?

It seems difficult to make a decision like this, but you can do it! Take it one step, one day at a time towards your goal. Best of luck to you!

I guess if you do, you should go the bish being as contrite and broken as you can seem to be. Tell him to please cancel the court. You want to repent.

If you don't want to be a Mormon, just write a letter of resignation and turn it in immediately.

Sir,

I am resigning from the Mormon church effective as of today.

Your name.

They can't fire you if you've already turned in your notice.

Good luck.

Are you a student at BYU, BYUI or BYUH?

There are a lot of groups that can offer you emotional support - other churches, volunteer groups, adult sports teams or hobby clubs.... Is this one important enough to you to go through the court and punishment? It will be painful and may affect your friendships.

I don't know how much you can about the truth behind the religion. Many of us felt quite betrayed to learn about the sexual predator behavior of the founding leaders.... Among other disconcerting facts. As part of your decision process, you might want to look into that. Someone already mentioned googling the CES letter which has a long list of issues and links to valid sources. www.mormonessays.com has the church official positions on these topics - but be sure to follow all links, read the footnotes and check out the sources because there is a lot of obfuscation going on. To me, it's not fair for them to punish you for your "lack of integrity" while never sharing this with converts.

Best of luck whatever you choose. But please don't let them fully own you by controlling your sexuality.

Sex is part of being an adult. Sex is a biological function. It's hardwired into your brain.

You are going to have sex, it's normal. Biology always wins. That's why there are billions of people on this planet. The issue isn't if you are going to have sex, the issue is how and why you are going to have sex.

The sooner you understand and accept this "fact of life", the better off you will be.

A few other things:

1. You are an ADULT. Think and act like it. As an adult, you make choices and you are responsible for those choices regardless of who influenced you to make the choice and regardless of what type of persuasion was used.

2. If you choose to discuss your sex life with someone who has ulterior motives, regardless of whether the discussion was supposedly in confidence, you can reasonably expect that someone to use that information to coerce you. Knowledge is power. The more someone knows about you, the more power they have over you. Confession in the LDS culture invariably comes back at you in the form of coercion.

3. You are a VOLUNTEER. As such, you are in a superior position. The LDS church is asking you for your help. If you chose to extend your kindness to the church by VOLUNTEERING to perform some kind of function, the church needs to understand its position as the recipient of charity. If any mission president, stake president, bishop or other so called leader makes demands of you, remind him that beggars can't be choosers and he is in no position to demand anything of you, AN ADULT VOLUNTEER.

4. You are an ADULT. Take care of yourself because no one else is going to take care of you. Keep your private matters private. If anyone asks something that is none of their business just say, "That's private."

5. You are an ADULT. You do not have to defend your reasons for your decisions. You do have to live in the environment you create with your decisions.

Don't show up for the court of hate.

Just never go back again.

You don't need that kind of crap in your life.

Be good to youself.

Do whats good for you.