Well I think it depends on the individual, since we all grieve in different ways at different periods in our lives.
But I can give a personal anecdote. I am currently grieving the death of my husband (23 years married) who developed brain cancer. We went through 4 months of treatments and worry, but really they had told us at diagnosis that this particular type of brain tumor was always fatal - 100%. Treatments were only to buy some time and some quality of life. My husband (a nevermo raised in the Episcopal church) and I (also raised in the Episcopal church, converted to LDS age 20, RM, 7 years in morgdom, then quit) are not believers in religion.
Since I gave up the belief in a god, I have given up the idea that things happen for a reason and there are rewards and punishments doled out by an invisible and silent powerful being. It has freed me. The fact that my husband got this tumor sucks. The fact that he died has broken my heart. But I spend zero time worrying about why it happened. Science doesn't know yet and there is no reward/punishment factor to worry about. So I am unhappy now. I will always miss my husband. But I know that I will work through this and I will go on with my life because that is my only option. It will be okay. That's how life and death work.
My MIL (also nevermo) is having a much harder time. She is wondering HOW this happened. WHY did this happen to us? She's stuck in the endless worry cycle that has no answers and no end. She is suffering more for being burdened with trying to figure out WHY we're in this position. I think she would be farther along in her grieving process if she were not burdened with her beliefs that God is directing everything that happens.
I too extend my condolences, Duffy. I'm so sorry to read about your husband. Twenty-three years isn't nearly long enough is it. Shocking news to receive and a very tough four months to get through, for both of you.
Too, I'm sorry for your MIL and her stuck cycle. You are right that the Why question can be difficult to answer, no matter where you lie on the spectrum of belief or non-belief.
I hope you eventually find comfort in your good memories of the years you had.
Thanks for posting about your loss. Your words and expressions help others, no doubt.
I'm sorry for your loss and wish you renewed happiness in your life.
I've seen friends stuck in grief wondering about the next life. Once you realize there probably isn't one, you get on with what is important: THIS LIFE.
OTOH, for some LDS/others, a belief that they (can) be together with loved ones 'in the hereafter' is comforting, and gives them a reason to 'live a better life'. I knew one such family who lost a son to extreme illness at about age 10. This might be the only 'good' thing about religion...
I lost my teen age son a couple years ago - as an atheist I just have had to accept that the universe is a cold and indifferent place and human life is never even remotely fair or balanced. My believing family have a hard time processing how I can "face" my grief this way. My answer is always simply that what choice do I have? The universe is what it is no matter what bullsh1t you try and tell yourself. I simply prefer to face things as they are rather than try and twist them into something I deep down know is crap.
basically I cherish my memories of him, I am super thankful for the time I did have with him, and I will forever mourn the time/experiences I should have had with him but didn't get.
I'm so sorry about your grievous loss, straightoutacumorah. It sounds like you are doing what works for you (as you say, no choice in the matter, except how to face reality).
"basically I cherish my memories of him, I am super thankful for the time I did have with him, and I will forever mourn the time/experiences I should have had with him but didn't get."
This sounds very positive and eventually as comforting as possible. The "forever mourn" part is all too true. That is part of the "loss" that we feel for ourselves as well as for the person who is gone.
I think LDS sometimes dismiss death and the grieving process too easily--because there is that hope of seeing loved ones in the afterlife, LDS become flippant, dismissive, or casual of death.
I'm generalizing, of course, but it seems that because there's an eternity of things to do or think or feel on the other side of death, LDS often neglect those things on this side of the "veil".
When my father died my mom didn't seem to grieve much. I suppose its because she thinks they will just continue where they left off when she dies. I don't share her beliefs.
After losing my husband, its been difficult for me because I feel badly for him, not so much me. He was the one who was robbed of living a full life but I am finding my way the best I can and trying to find peace.
When I was in High school I had a nevermo friend who died in a car accident. During the funeral I sat next to a mormon friend. A few tears slid down my face during the eulogy. My mormon friend scolded me for crying. Why are you crying!? You of all people know where he is!
I've never forgotten that. Her sister died 30 years later. She was telling me all about it. I asked her if she cried at the funeral. Her reply? Of course not!
She can't figure out why she's wracked with depression, anxiety, and plagued with several other diseases. Her worst disease is mormonism.
There's more to the story. A few years later my nevermo fil was dying. He happened to live in the same town as my mormon high school friend. Knowing we were mormon, he asked if we knew anyone who could give him a blessing. Dying can cause a bit of desperation, so I completely understood his request. I called my TBM friend and asked if her husband(a bishop) could give fil a blessing. Her hubby went right over. He gave him a blessing and pronounced him healed and told him he would recover. I thought that was incredibly cruel. I had told TBM bishop that fil had a rare cancer with 100% guaranteed fatality within about 30 days or less. My fil died 8 days later. I couldn't believe that the bish and friend showed up at the funeral.
I cried at that funeral. I didn't give a damn what she thought about that.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 08:16PM by madalice.
My lifelong best friend died last month, and it has hurt like bloody hell.
As schoolgirls, we were both Anglophiles, and longed to visit England together. We actually made it when we were both divorced and in our 40's.
She got there before I did, so she met me at the airport in London. After many hours on a plane full of strangers, it was wonderful to see my friend, beaming at me. We'd done it - we were in England together!
I like to think of reuniting in the afterlife, that she will be waiting for me. It would be wonderful.
The thing is, I don't believe it. And she didn't either.
I'm trying hard to make do with photos from our trip, old e-mails between us, and memories.
I don't even talk about this to believers, because I don't want to hear, "But you'll see her, when it's your time!" It hurts too much, when you just don't buy it.
When I was a believer, it was very difficult to reconcile pain and loss with the idea that I was supposed to be receiving some sort of guidance or intervention from a loving being with infinite power. No matter how many convoluted explanations about "mysterious ways" I heard, it just made things worse.
I find a less magical world view far easier to deal with. No matter how hard things are, they are no longer compounded by feelings of guilt, inadequacy, or the confusion of wondering why bad things are happening and if or how I could have changed them, if only I literally knew the magic words.
I was well out of the church when my father passed in 2008. I was also well on my way out of a 31 year miserable marriage. So when he passed I did not grieve at all and in fact I felt cheated that he got to leave this miserable life and I had to stay. Ya I was in a pretty dark place at that time.
Anyway once I crawled out of that dark place I was in and it dawned on me that my dad, my best friend, the man I admired more than anyone in this world was gone it hit me. Not like you might think. I was so happy for him! I knew that he finally knew the truth of all the lies and I knew in my heart that he was happy where ever he was.
My mom continues to be a TBM and she continues to grieve for my dad. I think that TBM's have more grief because in their hearts they know all that crap that they believe can't be true and they fear what the real truth is.
Just my take on it but the folks I know who are not religious in any way deal with grief in a much healthier way and they move on much faster than the religious folks I know.
“When my husband died, because he was so famous and known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me-it still sometimes happens-and ask me if Carl changed at the end and converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don't ever expect to be reunited with Carl. But, the great thing is that when we were together, for nearly twenty years, we lived with a vivid appreciation of how brief and precious life is. We never trivialized the meaning of death by pretending it was anything other than a final parting. Every single moment that we were alive and we were together was miraculous-not miraculous in the sense of inexplicable or supernatural. We knew we were beneficiaries of chance. . . . That pure chance could be so generous and so kind. . . . That we could find each other, as Carl wrote so beautifully in Cosmos, you know, in the vastness of space and the immensity of time. . . . That we could be together for twenty years. That is something which sustains me and it’s much more meaningful. . . . The way he treated me and the way I treated him, the way we took care of each other and our family, while he lived. That is so much more important than the idea I will see him someday. I don't think I'll ever see Carl again. But I saw him. We saw each other. We found each other in the cosmos, and that was wonderful.” ― Ann Druyan
It helps a lot in trying to deal with the "gone-ness of my dearest friend.
WE WERE THERE FOR EACH OTHER, throughout every major (and many minor) life crisis for 55 years. Our "starter" husbands used to get after us for having extended (2-3 hour) long distance phone conversations from time to time, after we moved out of state. Both us us told them, basically, to go to hell. We made good money, had our own careers, and could jolly well pay for the phone bills ourselves.
"We found each other in the cosmos, and that was wonderful."
This may be a bit OT, but when we thought my dad was nearly on his deathbed, my TBM brother gave him a little speech about how he believed that he would see my mom soon.
On the other hand, a well-trained nurse (the fiancée of the son of a good friend of my dad's) came in, took one look at him, diagnosed what he had, and he proceeded to have 4 more pretty good years of laugh-filled life.
Belief changed my grieving process a lot I think. Growing up I had two friends die. One in high school, and one a few months after his mission.
The first was my first ever funeral. And we weren't super close, but I was in tears and had a hard time. My second friend was after the mission. And I KNEW that he was just serving God on the other side. So it was a lot different.
Then came my Dad 6 years ago. I never really mourned. I never cried after he passed away. I knew hew as with God, and so it didn't bother me.
I have thought about that a lot lately. About how the brainwashing I had about what's after we die gave me a false hope. And at the time, it wasn't a hope. I knew that I'd be with him again. And that we'd bring all my non-member relatives to the gospel.
Now some days I sit and just feel depressed thinking about it. I feel like the church took that grieving process for my dad from me. I believed everything they said. No questions asked. It makes me feel like such a fool. And upsets me that I never cried after my Dad died. I miss him so much. And I wish he was here so I could have someone in my family I could talk too.
My dear sweet husband died suddenly a little less than two years ago. He was only 57 and was not sick (brain bleed). He had a full second half of his life to live and did not get that chance.I was a hard core atheist before his passing. The obnoxious type who felt that I had all the answers...
WELL, losing my husband while I was out doing groceries with no goodbyes...Well, its NOT fun so I've been on a quest to find answers. I am now at a place where I think that our consciousness does indeed survive bodily death but I don't think it has anything to do with a god.
At the same time, I can't talk about his passing that much with my family due to their TBM beliefs which, I do not believe in (I never have). I just don't think that if indeed there is any after-life, I don't think it has anything whatsoever to with religion....
If I knew that he was okay and lived on in some way, I am 100% sure that I would be comforted.
PLEASE NO ANGRY ATHEISTS REPLIES!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2015 04:44PM by rgg.
So sorry for your loss. Life is random and unfair. You now must revise the rest of your life. I hope you eventually find a measure of peace, in any form possible.
I lost a brother recently, one of the best human beings on the planet. There is no solace. I hope time will help.
So sorry rgg. I think your post illustrates how deeply it cuts when you lose the one you love. Maybe you'll see them again, maybe you won't, but in the meantime they are gone for sure, and it rips you to shreds.
I like just feeling it deeply and absorbing the grief. I couldn't stop myself if I tried. Denial may work as a mechanism to help hold a life together, to keep things going--especially for the kids, but I don't see denial as a positive when it is only a means of demonstrating someone's faith.
I watched someone close to me stoically demonstrate her faith with dry eyes and then weeks later come completely apart screaming and crying for days. I'm not a fan of burying feelings and emotions.
Everybody has to do it their way though. All the best to you rgg.
I agree with what you say. I have no idea if I'll ever see Glenn again or not. One day I will know, or, I won't. That's the hard part. In the meantime, I'm trying to be a nicer person to honor my late husband. He was very kind to everyone.
I have thought through this topic for some time now.
My wife of nearly 30 years died quietly and suddenly during an afternoon nap. She had been seriously ill for a number of years, yet we were not expecting the end so soon.
We have TBM family members on both sides.
I was expected, by both sides of the family, to return to church after her death. Most family members were certain that this was just what I needed to regain my faith.
Not so much. I am deeply grieving my loss. I am sometimes nearly incapacitated when I talk to my children about their mother, and witness their profound sadness. But through it all, I feel a sense of calm at not having to ask the 'why' questions. The truth is, sometimes our bodies are amazing and sometimes they are shit. We will all, at some time, in some manner, die. I don't want or need religion to help me with that.
I think NormaRae had an example about how Mormonism interfered with proper mourning of her grandfather. It was very touching. Perhaps it was invented. I'm on oxycodone, and anything could happen.
I think religious society can interfere with the grieving process. I lost my sister, whom I was very close to, when I was a young child. My TBM parents emphasized that we'd all meet again in the CK so it wasn't really a tragedy to be grieved over. I was not allowed to go through the natural grief that I should have at that age for such an event. I found myself years later crying over it, and finally going through the grieving process as an adult that I should have gone through as a child.
They thought they were protecting you, when that was the opposite of what you needed. I hope you were able to process it all properly, or adequately to help you deal with it.
People say weird things where death is concerned. They're in a better place... Usually it isn't comforting whatsoever.