I got a great new job a few weeks ago with the local school district. It's different than anything I've ever done before but I love it. What I love less is the presence of a whole lot more Mormons than I expected.

The boundaries of the school I work at the most also covers a lot of my old ward. There is a Mormon female bossy boots that has pretty much run that school as a volunteer for years due to the large number of children she has. She has held every possible PTA position and volunteered many hours. The teachers love her and she's managed to maneuver her Mormon friends from the ward in jobs like playground supervisor, office help, art teacher etc. It's like going to Relief Society. Between that and the parents who come in to volunteer, I'm running into people I haven't had to tolerate in years.

Most of them are OK, but two of them were pretty good friends of mine back in the day and dropped me almost entirely when I left the church. Now they act like nothing every happened and presume I like them as much as ever. While I'm polite, friendly and professional, I just wish I could say "Why on EARTH do you still think I like you?" Maybe it's payback for all the uncomfortable Mormons I've chatted with - people who clearly didn't want to talk to me but I kept being friendly to just because I wanted them to know I wasn't intimidated by their rudeness and shunning. Or maybe I'm just being touchy. But Mormons really are clueless about the fact they have ever done anything wrong, hurtful or unkind. They just don't get it nor do they get that people may actually, genuinely dislike them because of the way they behave. This is why I don't feel a lot of Mormons deserve the forgiveness they demand. Because so many of them aren't sorry for what they did - or think they are justified or just plain don't even see how bad their behavior is.

When you are cheerful all the time, even while insulting people, what would you possibly need to be sorry about?

Watch your back! That would be like working with passive-aggressive cheer-leaders (modest/old fashioned outfits) who cheer, "Our way, or the hi-way!" The volunteers can be booted off the island if there is any questionable behavior...

I hope you don't get nightmares, or anxiety. Take/use your i-pod if you need to escape (lunch...) Good luck to you!

Yeah, I would agree. Watch your back around these bitches. Yeah, Mormons don't realize people don't like them because they can't conceive of the rest of the world not wanting to BE them. As a never-Mo, it appears to me they think the world envies them (when in fact the world pities or ignores them, at best).

I'm sorry you have to deal with those high-school-type cliques again, but you are wiser now, and obviously able to see through the transparency of fake friendships. Most Mormon women are very low in the pecking order, and are so disrespected and bossed-around by their cult, that they have to boss others around. It's the same principle of abusers being abused themselves, as children. This is harsh, but I get along better if I consider the Mormons I know, to be a little bit insane, and a lot like children. (I give Mormons strangers the benefit of the doubt.)

Mormon women are taught in Relief Society that the most important attribute is (not love, not kindness, not talent, not intelligence) popularity! The "every member a missionary" mindset has pitted the members against each other to see who can convert the most people, bring the most guests to the activities, be the loudest, be the leader of the pack. Some women create more members by having a lot of children, like your "bossy boots" friend. She thinks having more children gives her more importance. Actually, she will actually will have less time and attention to devote to volunteer work. These women love to hear, "I know how very busy you are!" They think it is a compliment. Just like they think popularity with Mormons means they are popular with normal people, also. Not.

Many Mormon female volunteers really do think they are perfect--until they go home and their priesthood husband and their church them otherwise. Anyway, they think they are better than YOU, and you know it. That's why you feel uncomfortable.

Their Prophet of God has told them that apostates are lazy, offended, and want to sin. Their prophet has spoken, thinking has been done, and you know there is nothing you can do about it.

You are right--most Mormons think they are the best and brightest and most loved group of people on the planet. They are not in reality at all. They think you are happy to see them knock on your door at 9:00 at night. I agree that they are clueless of their own nastiness. They think Joseph Smith's behavior was just fine and dandy. They even think some of Joseph's crimes were commanded by God. Remember how far away from reality these women are. I don't know your position at the school, but professionally speaking, I wouldn't trust them, for the sake of the school.

You might feel more like yourself--more genuine--if you let some of these women know how you feel about them. If these women are making you keep silent, or squelch your humor, or making you feel awkward, then you are allowing yourself to be victimized by them.

You can do little things, like call them out on their phoniness. If someone says they have missed being your friend, ask them, "Exactly what do you miss?" An ex-Mormon friend of mine has a great response that always makes me laugh: when a Mormon says, "Let's have lunch, sometime...." She immediately gets out her iphone and says, "When? I'm free on Wednesday and Thursday...." It is hilarious to see the Mormon try to get out of it.

Sometimes, all you need to do is give the Mormon a blank stare and say, "Really."

Smile and be friendly, but glance at your watch or phone while they are talking to you. Let your eyes focus somewhere else, and start heading in that direction, like you are terribly rushed. You don't want to be mean to anyone--that would be playing their game--but you can be inattentive and distracted.

In business, we're taught that whoever is doing the most talking has the LEAST power. I'm sure you intimidate these women, more than you realize.

Remember what Audrey Hepburn character told Cary Grant in Charade, "Do you think we are about to be friends? I have so many friends already, that unless one of them dies, I couldn't possibly fit anyone in."

Sorry to rant, but I'm SO in the same situation you are in, right now! I sympathize.

I don't think that was a rant but a beautifully crafted summation of that particular Mormon attitude. I can't believe even a part of me believed that others outside the church wanted what I had - wanted to be like me. I don't think I ever completely believed it but that brainwashing is pretty powerful. Still, even at my most TBM I could always tell when certain people thought I wasn't a good fit for friendship (i.e. didn't like me.) Even when they weren't obvious or impolite about it. I guess we learn to pick up certain unspoken signals in social interaction but if you are only exposed to Mormon social interaction, you'd only pick up Mormon signals and everything else would go over your head.

Well, CA girl. They may have strength in numbers, but they don't know what you know--which means you have the secret weapon. Plus, I see your intellect, your wisdom. I personally wouldn't mess with you, haha.

Good luck. I hope this continues to be a great job for you even if it does take a few interesting Mormon twists and RS turns. I would just use any mystery to your advantage and keep 'em guessing.

So far I really like the job - Fortunately it keeps me on the move well enough that I haven't really been cornered for more than a passing chat.

that you don't want to be a part of their little clique. If I'm patient, I usually get those opportunities in life.

I feel lucky to work for a woman who, though TBM, has always been a great person to work with. Most of the people I work with, though mostly Mormon, are great. We have 4 or 5 exmos, too. AND I can work at home as much as I want.

I honestly hope that someday I get to convey my lack of interest in emulating them to a few of the more irritating ones but for the most part, most of them just bore me so I hope you are right.

I find that it's more of a case of those Mormons who don't
realize they don't like me. They THINK they like me because
they THINK I'm possible reactivation material. When they find
out I'm not, then they finally realize that they don't like me.

Congratulations on the job!

I'd say some of the teachers likely agree with you about these women, but they must cover it up or suffer the consequences. I didn't teach many Mormon children, but I did have to deal with PTA dictator types and volunteer busybodies.

The Mormon aspect would make it harder. They're used to an artificial setting where image and connections count more than authentic give and take. They don't understand that they're annoying or pushy if they gush and smile through every awkward situation.

My brother was mean to me every day when we were kids. As adults we had next to no contact beyond one Christmas card for 50 years. Suddenly, when our mother died in January, he assumed he could boss and manipulate me and I'd be compliant and appreciative because "families are so special and eternal." I got tired of the phone calls about blessings, prayers, scripture, and minor ailments, so I cut him off. I'm sure he's reeling because I'm so mean.

People who have no contact over many years likely have little in common. Suddenly seeing or hearing from them isn't doesn't usually mean they're suddenly best friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2015 06:42AM by Cheryl.

Sorry about your brother. I get what you are saying about how they think WE are mean because we don't want their interference, boring church talk, unnecessary prayers or misguided help.

It sounds like you're in a political/religious/educational mormon clique. Not to fear!

Just be aware of who and what you're dealing with. You know way more about them than they know about you. Be aware of that, and think twice about everything you have to say, or not say.

Guard your private life as much as possible. I cannot say that enough. Also, don't ever share your religious thoughts.

Collect as many friends as possible and keep them close. Build a happy beautiful life. What could possibly be wrong with that?

If I were you, i'd go out to lunch with bossy boots. I'd encourage her to tell you everything she nows. Try to get yourself in a position of trust.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2015 01:44AM by madalice.

I don't think the suggestion to 'collect as many friends as possible' is particularly helpful. Some personalities do not manage large groups of friends particularly well, some people want a few, carefully selected friends, rather than a large collection of acquaintances. In fact, one should evaluate the 'friends' on the friend list to ensure you are spending time with the people that matter most to you.

Having a big group of friends is not some status symbol, it's not a measure of how socially successful you are. I'd certainly be advising people to not measure friendships in terms of quantity at all.

How ever many friends one has, be it simply one or two, the focus should be on being the best friend to them as possible.

I saw a quote the other day.

"You are the CEO of your own life. In terms of friends evaluate them regularly against Promote (spend more time with them) Demote (spend less time with them) Terminate (people who add negative things to your life. Toxic friends need to be given the boot)."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2015 08:44AM by pettigrew.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was not to marry someone you couldn't see yourself going into business with. Because you want to marry someone with your same approach to problem solving, finances, goal-setting etc. Unfortunately, I got the advice after I was married but I certainly remind my kids of it. You may not literally want that much togetherness with your spouse and you may have opposite approaches to things but they have to mesh enough to move your life forward. Your detail-oriented personality might mesh brilliantly with your spouse's creative side but they have to be able to work well together.

I never thought about using that mentality on a larger scale but that is really good advice.

Since moving to Orem, I've been hostiled out of every job and roommate situation that's been dominated by Mormons. Many of them have this blind, self-righteous bullying attitude towards non/ex-Mormons, and anything that's outside of their religious culture. They have this Dr. Jeckyll/Hyde mentality. One minute they're as friendly and goofy as something out of an Andy Griffith episode, then mean, and gossipy and malicious the next, then back to goofy and over-friendly.

To me it seems they don't know who they are. I'm watching them flip between their real self, their real personality, to their desperate and fake Mormon personality. Then right back again. It's strange and confusing. I've been struggling with a little of this myself from being raised in a Mormon family. It's why I've cut them off so I can get some breathing room and find my real self again.

I've been watching a lot of interviews from Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchins, and for the first time it's beginning to sink in why people on this RfM board see Mormonisn as a harmful, brainwashing cult.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2015 10:13AM by liminal state.

You are right - they don't know who they are, they only know who they are told they have to be for social and eternal acceptance. They were never rewarded for being authentic and that has to cause some bitterness in them - that who they really are deep inside is a cause for rejection. So they flip between nicey nice and a weird, twisted meanness because actual anger and confrontation are also a cause for rejection.

Honestly, I'd rather have a heated disagreement with an honest person than be choked to death with honey from someone who isn't what they appear to be, based on the mask they wear.

I was raised by two TBM parents who were very self-righteous and cruel about being perfect. We weren't allowed to be our true natural selves and it has made me into a confused, bitter, and angry person despite the fact I left the church years ago. This miserable drive for perfection has driven everybody in my family into various forms of addictions, loneliness, and crazy personality faults. I've never learned how to be honest with myself, and if I wanted to be honest with myself, I didn't have the courage and encouragement to be honest. A while ago a poster here called me a judgmental, jealous, self-righteous jerk, and they were right. I just didn't see it. I guess I'm still trying to recover from Mormonism.

I just want to say thank you for being an honest and articulate person. Your posts have been helping me find my own honesty and courage.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2015 11:40AM by liminal state.