For a long time I've been pondering whether or not it would be advisable to start attending testimony meetings at LDS churches. I'd get up and speak ideas which aren't ever voiced within LDS churches. I think about how I'd maybe share some of my back story, that I was raised Mormon, then talk about how I left the church some 15 years ago and the things I found out after leaving, then address myself to the youth of the ward and tell them that they don't have to be Mormons, that they don't have to go on missions and get married in LDS temples, that they can do whatever they want with their lives. I'd tell them that masturbation is a perfectly healthy, normal practice and that if their bishop asks them whether or not they masturbate then that bishop is a pervert. Then I'd walk away.

Has anyone out there ever tried something like this? What if we just all started attending testimony meetings to speak forbidden truths? Obviously, we'd get the mic turned off on us eventually but a person could make some really important points before the bishop figures out what is happening.

Don't try it.

You will just give the bishop and others, after you have been silenced about one minute into your speech, the opportunity to comment on how this is a demonstration of what happens to you when you "kick against the pricks" because of your "pride" and "sinful nature" etc. etc.

Why give them that opportunity?

You will do more harm than good.

And they'll probably call the cops.

RPackham Wrote:
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> Don't try it.
>
> You will just give the bishop and others, after
> you have been silenced about one minute into your
> speech, the opportunity to comment on how this is
> a demonstration of what happens to you when you
> "kick against the pricks" because of your "pride"
> and "sinful nature" etc. etc.
>
> Why give them that opportunity?
>
> You will do more harm than good.
>
> And they'll probably call the cops.

If I were to do it, and I'm not saying I'm 100% decided either way about it, I wouldn't do anything illegal. I've considered that there would be some kind of nauseating response from the bishop or whoever, but at least the young people would be exposed to ideas which are typically unspoken in the LDS church. It would be worth it just for that, I think.

I've seen it happen. The person was promptly silenced and escorted out by the bishop's counselors. The bishop then gave a damage control speech.

al-iced Wrote:
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> I've seen it happen. The person was promptly
> silenced and escorted out by the bishop's
> counselors. The bishop then gave a damage control
> speech.


Wow, that must have been amazing. Yeah, I think that a person would have to choose their words carefully so as not to initially make clear that the testimony is not of the "truthfulness of the church" but just the opposite.

And if you're in Utah the cops will be Mormons. Not a pretty picture. Expect extra hard arm twisting On your way to the cop car.

Get up and talk about how it can be hard to follow god's commandments using Nephi beheading Laban and Joseph's angel with a sword as examples.

This is what could happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIPc1f1GtS8

brettm Wrote:
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> This is what could happen.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIPc1f1GtS8


Wow. That's inspiring. It takes a lot of guts to speak up like that.

Now I know why the chapels have such bad acoustics! The use of microphones allows them to prevent the hearing of most people if they can just shut off the sound.

Giving Exmos a bad rep ain't gonna win any friends here, my uh funn loving friend.

You wanna reinforce the whole congregation's tesitmonies even further go ahead.

That's what TM is for OK?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2015 09:10PM by Shummy.

Shummy, were you replying to my post?

I posted that link to show the courage some people have. I have no idea who that guy in the video is but I have a tremendous amount of respect for him.

brettm Wrote:
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> Shummy, were you replying to my post?
>
> I posted that link to show the courage some people
> have. I have no idea who that guy in the video is
> but I have a tremendous amount of respect for him.


To the OP and his peurile post, of course.

Got it ;)

Shummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> brettm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Shummy, were you replying to my post?
> >
> > I posted that link to show the courage some
> people
> > have. I have no idea who that guy in the video
> is
> > but I have a tremendous amount of respect for
> him.
>
>
> To the OP and his peurile post, of course.


I don't appreciate being insulted by you, Shummy. I'm taking the risk of sharing my secret thoughts and reaching out to people for their insights, please respect that.

Shummy Wrote:
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> Giving Exmos a bad rep ain't gonna win any friends
> here, my uh funn loving friend.
>

Yes--please. We don't want anyone to ruin the stellar reputation and respect that exmos currently enjoy from TBMs. </sarc>

I got to speak before the council for an hour by starting off on a direction of beliefs rather than unbelief and them hit home. One can also testify about a "doubt" and leave the conclusion to the listener to decipher. You also use the key words like testimony of... and add a few tears and maybe a story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2015 08:32PM by rhgc.

rhgc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got to speak before the council for an hour by
> starting off on a direction of beliefs rather than
> unbelief and them hit home. One can also testify
> about a "doubt" and leave the conclusion to the
> listener to decipher. You also use the key words
> like testimony of... and add a few tears and maybe
> a story.


That's kind of what I'm thinking I might do. Like if I tell the story of my growing up and when I left the LDS church and make it sound like I'm just building the story to the part where I come back to the faith.

In my experience, the true believers will do more damage than you ever could. The wackiest stuff I ever heard, the stuff that made me question the whole thing the most, was inevitably in a testimony meeting.


I seem to recall ward missionaries making special efforts to keep investigators and visitors away from FTM as their first exposure, because all the crying wackadoos were known deterrents.

Pista Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my experience, the true believers will do more
> damage than you ever could. The wackiest stuff I
> ever heard, the stuff that made me question the
> whole thing the most, was inevitably in a
> testimony meeting.
>
>
> I seem to recall ward missionaries making special
> efforts to keep investigators and visitors away
> from FTM as their first exposure, because all the
> crying wackadoos were known deterrents.

Maybe you're right. I just know that when I was growing up nobody ever told me that it was okay for me to believe whatever I want. I wish I'd been exposed to free-thinking people.

I have seen it happen before, done by a never mo in complete sincerity. He came home with his Mormon girl to meet her parents. He went to church with them, to FAT meeting. he was obviously very well educated and intelligent. After listening for a few minutes, he got up and spoke too, about strong feelings that he had, on that went on to earnestly comment that what was going on was really very irrational, disturbing, and cultish, and that people needed to get a big dose of objectivity in their thinking. Probably the best / most intelligent thing I ever heard said in a MORmON meeting.


then on the other end of the spectrum was this talk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3-buIzlTWI

It would be far better to secretly video the whack jobs, and those who are indoctrinating a radicalizing children for uploading on the interwebz.

I meant no disrepect.

Ever.

It's fun to fantasize but I'd no more disrupt an LDS meeting than a Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. worship service. Neither would I disrupt a humanist or non-believers' gathering. The Boner.

It would be like a PETA activist doing this to a dairy co-op meeting. . .

Oh fuck, I hope we're not getting into "I'm a better PETA member than you" discussion! lOL, the Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2015 12:13AM by byuboner.

I like your style Boner. Just throwin out an analogy is all.

Right back at you, Dude!

If you wanted to do something like that I think it would be smarter to say things that aren't blatantly "anti-mormon". Like instead just getting up and saying how you are having a faith crisis after finding out about Joe having 40 wives some of which were married to other men or only 14 years old, but you could still feel the testimony testifying to you that it is true. This could plant seeds of doubt while making you still look like an honest in heart believer that isn't just some bitter butt munch out trying to stir up trouble.

We had someone that left the church about 6 years ago that tried this. The microphone was cut off within 45 seconds of his starting to speak. He was escorted out of the room. We were overseas at the time. This became a very very very big ordeal for him. He was a US Service member. Serving on a foreign military base (not even a US military base, this was THEIR base that WE were guest at). We were off base at a foreign LDS chapel. He was arrested by local foreign police officers. This did not end well for him at all.

And it didn't put any seeds in anyones mind at the time. It honestly made us all just mad, at him. And it added fuel to the fire of the persecution complex that many LDS'ers seem to have.

Better yet, go to a meeting and look at the criers like they are insane and make faces at them. Maybe afterwards tell them that you're an investigator and that thanks to their insanity you know this is not a good fit for you and you're telling all your friends about it.

If enough people did it then eventually they would have to be stricter about who could get up and bear their testimony.

I have never seen anyone do it but from other people's accounts it sounds like it doesn't go down very well. I kind of wish I had done it when I left instead of quietly disappearing. It might have given me some closure.

I think sites like mormon think and lds.org are doing a better job of disseminating anti-mormon messages.

I think the main question for a person considering this would be the impact on one's recovery from Mormonism.

Is this a something that would do further damage to family or neighbor relationships? They will not like our decision anyway, but the amount of mutual respect we demonstrate for each others own space is an important consideration if we desire any kind of constructive relationship going forward.

Do you want to put your effort into activism exposing the LDS Church to its members, or focus on your own healing?

I'm not suggesting there's a right or wrong approach for everyone, but those are things I would consider.

This would only work if you went the paternoster way. POEs law type stuff:

"I know the prophets were inspired to deny black men the priesthood because they were less valiant in the preexistence"

etc

In another age: test-a-monkeys will be evaluated, and vetted, ahead of time - you'll be given a number (Mormons are already numbered) - to make sure you are going "positive", as opposed to "truth", which most Mormons desperately seek, though most don't know it, and may not even recognize even if it were right in front of them.

Mormonism is not the place to find truth - or anything of much importance - since it's inception.

There are many ways to do it. Choose your path. Educate the youth - and members - wisely and widely.

Let's all (keep) have (having) phun.

M@t

Go with an old list of V.T. or H.T. (and do just that), over which 1/2 are "innactive". These aren't fence sitters. Many know the church isn't true but also have questions, stories, seek answers, etc., and most will never return. Many have suffered (just like most here) lies, wierdness, disappointments, shunning, abuse and neglect... and this is one way to reach those who want to be reached, &!, BY AN EX-MOs.

Please don't do this.

First, it's a dick thing to do. You wouldn't go crashing into a synagogue and start hollering about the genocide committed by their forefathers, nor would you go into a Baptist church and accuse the patrons of being racist on account of the church's 1800's-era stance on slavery. Let the Mormons have their meetings. Even here on RfM, the posting guidelines indicate this is our little corner of the Internet where preaching is unwelcome; why should we be hypocrites and go into an LDS church and violate their guidelines.

Second, it won't do any good. It'll further cement the persecution complex; it'll make ex-Mo's look bitter and, frankly, a bit crazed. It'll only serve to validate the worst of the ex-Mo stereotypes -- that they can't leave the church alone.

Third, I'm beginning to think ex-Mo's in some instances are developing as much of a persecution complex as the Mo's think they have. Some people just want to say they got arrested on the temple square grounds or got booted out of church. To that, I say, so what? You didn't do anybody a lick of good.

If I had to give a suggestion, it'd be to seek your vengeance through a life well lived. Nothing will do more to tear down the LDS church than for its members to see its former adherents living well, contrary to the promulgated stereotypes.

I think for now I'll have to leave this idea in the realm of fantasy. I have a job where I travel a lot, so I could feasibly visit many meetinghouses where I wouldn't risk alienating my family by speaking my mind, but I wouldn't want to do a bad job of exemplifying what an ex-Mormon is.

To those of you who think it's a bad idea on the grounds that it's disrespectful, I can see your point. I definitely wouldn't go bust up a synagogue or a Baptist church. As a vegan I might go speak truth to a dairy co-op, though, haha. But as regards those other church's with shameful pasts, the LDS church has a shameful present as long as it continues to indoctrinate kids. That's what I feel compelled to speak out about.

I definitely agree that there is a wrong way to conduct oneself in confronting abusive practices within the LDS church. I don't think I've reached a point in my personal journey that I could pull this off and represent my ideas in a way that I would feel good about.

Lately I've been thinking a lot more about my Mormon past and how it continues to affect me. I see my nephews leaving on missions and I want to shake them and tell them that there are other ways to live, but there's no getting through to them. I just wish I could protect kids from the indoctrination. Perhaps I will become involved as an activist in some capacity. I guess I need to do some more thinking about what I want in life.

Glad to hear this outcome. I have to admit, I've fantasized about doing something like this, but it doesn't really do any good and ends up ruining a reputation and/or relationships.

I commend you for your thoughtful attitude.

Thanks for sharing.

Some recovering exmos like me may be snarky at times but at least we really do care.

Besta luck and let us always have funn!

To each his own I suppose. Nearly everything on the earth is more appealing to me than attending anything associated with any CULT ever.

I am so over it and life is too short to bother with spending time in the presence of pure evil.