DW is now RS president and has to deal with the food orders. On RfM we get reports all the time about how people are turned down for food assistance, and yet DW, DD, and DSis all have been dealing with the same sort of food orders, having to take food orders from people who have problems, are inactive, are disrespectful, never do work for the church, never even come to church, and receive some sort of state assistance. DW and the others all have to turn in the orders, go to a church where a warehouse truck delivers the stuff, and all three have the same problem--the bishop being too lax with some people, bending to their every perceived need. Even as someone who has no sympathy for LDS, Inc., I want to go strangle these people for gaming the corporation. And perhaps I'd like to strangle these bishops.

In two different local instances, two women on pensions with layabout adult sons put in huge orders every 14 days for weird and expensive items. One woman always wants 24 rolls of toilet paper and two gallons of bleach, plus the usual beef and pork roasts, and several pounds of bacon. The other woman always orders 10 lbs of sugar for iced tea (10 lbs.!!--every two weeks!!), a pot roast, a pork roast, a ham (the church got hams?!), a gallon of bleach, 4 dozen eggs, and many loaves of bread. You'd think that their hearts would pack up over this kind of diet.

DW and predecessors will check one woman's freezer and find it chock full of frozen meats, her pantry full of food. Then it's, "Now-now, sister. Are we hoarding food?" And then they work on a lesser order, but the woman rejects it and them and gives the food order directly to the bishop, who then gives it to the RS presidency and tells them to fill it. When anyone calls the woman and gets her unemployed 50-something son, he tells them they have the wrong number and tells them to f*ck off, and yet he is doubtless a main recipient. DSis is somewhat tougher with these types and rejects a lot of their meat demands, but does try to help them actually make some sort of menu, which the recipients are supposed to be doing, anyhow.

Meanwhile, we get report after report of active people who are told they are expected to sell their TV and go to all their relatives before they receive church assistance.

Our ward had the same issues, one bishop was too lenient and gave people whatever they wanted while another like you said, had no problem telling active tithe-payers people to consider selling things. Then there's the inactives who show up to church every two or three years, do the whole trying to get back into church routine for three weeks, get their bills caught up and then disappear for another three years.

Twenty years ago in our nepotistic town there was no outside work or baby sitters available when we found one salary did not cover everything.
We were not in debt, we only had a house payment and it was only $250.00 a month. But we were struggling. We didn't have family to supplement our needs; baby sitting, joint buying of large food lots, traveling together to share costs, hand me down clothes, etc.

So we were on church food. The hams? They are salt water cured and so stringy you cannot slice them for ham sandwiches. There is no way you can sugar glaze them and stick them with cloves and bake them because there is zero smoke involved in their curing. They are three pounds and only fit to be chopped up and fried with chopped up potatoes. I can guarantee if the DI ham were ever served to a visiting SP or above the local leadership would be reamed for it!

We lived 100 miles from the distribution center with limited transportation. I would hand in my order about once a month and make sure it was a week early. I was never shorted on what we needed, but there were times when my RS president would come to me on the day before they were to pick up the order and say "Oh, we're not going to be picking up the orders this week, is that going to be a problem?" Well yes it would, because I was completely out of milk and fresh bread. "Oh" was all she'd say. Then I'd have to use the only cash I had for incidentals for that week ($6.00) to get milk and bread.

Sometimes it meant my children couldn't go to scouts because I had a gas hog car and no one wanted to make the 4 mile round trip out to our house to pick my kid for scouts. I did not buy nylons to wear to church, but pretended I liked bare legs and sandals because the only place in town had old nylons they sold for $4 a package when you could get 4 in a package for $4 in Vegas 100 miles away. Might as well lived on the moon.

And our children got chided for missing scouts and my daughter was told by her YWs leaders that we were apostates and if she wanted to be happy she had to live the 'gospel' and marry an RM in the temple and don't worry about what her backsliding parents were teaching her about getting an education. She was also told by her Mormon classmates she was "Fat" because she wasn't wearing super slim jeans made for walking toothpicks (she has a fine slim curvy figure) and that she 'wasn't pretty because she wore glasses"!

As Tevia in Fiddler on the Roof said "There is nothing wrong with being poor but it is no great honor either"

I'm sure there are people who disrespect the system, but I haven't known of any. I saw abuse heaped on those of us who needed the food.

We're in a culture where our country has been attacked economically and the media keeps vilifying the poor and blaming them for the slow economy as if they had the power to make it happen in the first place. The TSCC has been ripping up the poor for years.

The people your wife is serving are running scared because they are very low on resources...so they will hoard a bit, because they don't know if they will get the next order or not.

Two of our friends, a married couple, help to run a food ministry. It's one of those where no questions are asked and no proof of need is required. Our friends tell us that there's always a certain segment of people who could provide for themselves, but they take advantage of the free stuff just because it's free. It's sorta like those people who drive their brand-new expensive cars to go pick up their food stamps, gubment cheese, or welfare checks.

As to the expensive pork and beef roasts, bacon, etc.---In my area, Sam's Club usually has pork loin and boneless chicken breasts for $1.99 a pound. If I was the bishop, I'd substitute the beef roast (which is probably $4-$6 a pound) for something less expensive. And I'd probably require them to eat more vegetables. If they want more protein, they can get it in eggs or peanut butter.

As for the woman who orders 24 rolls of TP every two weeks---she sounds like she needs to get her sh*t together.

And five pounds of sugar a week? Our household of three doesn't use five pounds of sugar in three months. We use Splenda in our coffee, and we rarely bake anything that requires sugar. There's more than enough added sugar in most processed foods already.

I have a 5 pound sack of sugar I bought probably 20 years ago and still have well over half of it left. The only time I use it is for the occasional glass of tea.

my brother told me his MIL was getting her house payment paid WHILE she was in jail for beating up her boyfriend. She is an alcoholic and had blown through a $100,000 inheritance very quickly. I don't know when she last worked. Then my ex's boyfriend was getting his rent paid by the very bishop who had counseled us to get married (of course, the bishop didn't know--different ward some years later).

So I asked. The bishop made me feel like a piece of shit. I cried for days. He later apologized and they did help me. Then I was told I didn't order enough by the RS president. Yes, they have ham. They have JennieO (spelling) turkey roasts, pot roasts, all the toiletry products you could ever ask for and sure saved me a lot of money. Things like brooms--very well made ones. I had enough leftover food when I stopped getting food that I had cheese in my freezer and spaghetti sauce and hamburger for another year. Having groceries helped me in SO MANY ways.

But most of the "normal" people have to literally BEG for help. We have people in this neighborhood who lived off the ward for YEARS, house payment and all.

When I was paying tithe and fast offerings it was for the purpose of giving people like this a little extra.
Being punked is thinking you are feeding the poor and finding out you are buying expensive chandeliers for dead people.

Truest thing I've heard all day.

Around 1983, my wife and I had two little kids. In the wintertime, a bad stomach flu went around, and all of us got it. Vomiting, fever, and very weak for several days. In the middle of it, our ward RS president called my wife and asked her if she would buy and bake a ham and take it to some family who had the stomach flu. My wife informed the RS president that we all had the flu too, so we weren't in any position to help anybody else out. The RS president was obviously taken aback by that response.

That incident illustrates the difference between people. We were all sick, but it didn't cross our minds to call and ask somebody else to do anything for us. We hadn't bothered to tell the RS president or anybody else that we were sick. It was just something that happens to all people at one time or another, and we knew that we'd get over it soon. We were young and of very modest means at the time, but I suppose we had some soup or other food in the house that we made for ourselves.

I'm the youngest of 12 children, and for most of my youth, we ate very modestly. We ate a lot of chicken and dumplings, rice, cornbread, black-eyed peas, the cheaper cuts of pork, etc. We canned every summer. My mother would can quarts of okra, corn, and tomatoes for soup base. We canned lots of butter beans, peaches, corn, etc., and ate off of it all winter. If we complained about a certain meal, my non-Mormon father would tell us "Eat it, and thank your God you got it." My parents grew up during the Depression in one of the poorest areas of the country, so they knew times that were a lot harder than we had it.

My wife's father died of a heart attack when she was four. She and her mother and sister ate black-eyed peas and cornbread just about every day for years, because that's all her mother could afford.

Point being, people should just take care of themselves, and only seek charity when they have no other alternatives.

DW just barely came in and said that a woman in the ward is now offended because she came down with an ear infection, and asked the RS to bring in food or else her husband would be buying a lot of pizza. The out-going RS president told them to eat pizza. I had just read your post a couple of hours before that.

Luke 6:29-30 ...and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

A few months back, there were announcements at Church asking people not to give to people asking for money in the parking lot after Mass.

People were told to direct them to the Church's food and clothing bank where they could get what they needed and also apply for financial assistance if needed.

The people asking for cash were highly offended and were rather rude for being told to go to the proper place for assistance.

The parking lot begging stopped after about a month.

It is entirely possible that the money was needed for cigarettes or alcohol.

One time I was in a fast food place and had ordered two items, one to eat there and the other to take with me. A panhandler came in and asked for money. I told him I had no cash but he was welcome to my extra food. I gave it to him.

When I left the restaurant, he had thrown the food in the parking lot and the birds were feasting on it.

I don't think he was hungry at all. lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2015 07:27PM by Susan I/S.

Happens all the time. I live in a prime panhandling area and I've learned to say no in various ways.

Ah yes, the major problem with Mormonism is that it is too generous with food assistance to hungry people.

On the other hand . . .

Decades ago my TBM wife (now my ex) spent January's rent in the previous December. We were broke. The Bishop paid our rent (nothing more), which was, back then, under $300. However in return I went and worked it off on the welfare farm doing all the grunt jobs. Somehow I don't think I took advantage of them.

Yeah, back in the day, that was the procedure.

Every building has a food pantry for the needy, members or not. But each person must have verification from a social worker first. Every other week clients can receive prepacked supplies. Everyone gets the same package. Local members will often bring in fresh produce during the growing season. This is set out in a separate bin, next to the person in charge at the door. Anyone can take samples, but can't be greedy, as what they take is noted by that person.

When were were starving students in Provo decades ago, I helped out at the local storehouse, and was shocked at the huge meat orders that were sent out. Meanwhile, we ate beans over bread, and soy products. As a new member, I didn't realize that we could have been helped, too. But my TBM spouse never mentioned it.??

Yes, our tiny Methodist Church has a food pantry too. Our clients are pre-screened by other organizations and then sent to us. The majority of them have at least 1 job, they just don't make enough to eat and pay rent too. I don't think any of them go to our church. I don't have a clue where they go, if anywhere. That's not part of our requirements at all.

We don't set it out pre-packaged, but they do get to choose from our shelves. There hasn't been much of a problem with greed. More the opposite. People have been told to take more because it's obvious they need it.

Our food pantry is open 2 Saturdays a month for about 4 hours each day. And they serve about 75-90 people every three months. This coming from a church with 120 official members and only about 80 people attending each Sunday. It's pretty amazing.

I have a similar experience. I volunteer at a local food bank. One of my days is always "pack up and pass out" day.
The vast majority of people who come for food have to be encouraged to take more -- they are a bit shy about taking too much.
I've yet to see, in over 8 years working there, somebody that I would point to and say, "Oh, they don't need it, they're scamming us."

Interesting how that seems to be common among mormons, though.

Because they arnt Christians

Shortly after we were married, our branch got a new BP. He kicked everyone off the church welfare system and everyone had to submit an income report. A friend of mine was also newly married. Her husband lost his job and they were feeding their son Cheerios every meal because it was all they could afford. They went to the BP to ask for a food order and were turned away, because "it was their fault they were poor. They just needed to get past this phase." My sister and I, both low income families, emptied half our own pantries and took it to their family. The BP was furious, released my sister from her calling (I had no calling at the time), and accused us of doing what we did with a selfish, non-Christlike attitude. That was the beginning of the end for me.

I also saw my parents game the church for years for their house payments while living considerably beyond their means. One of our old BPs was friends with my dad and while he was in charge, they milked the church until he was told to stop. After that he lent them money himself, which they have never paid back.

I have been in three bishoprics, and I can tell you, the bishop makes all the difference.

I worked with one who had a formula, and judgement for anyone needing help. While a nice man, was a complete ass.

I worked with another who followed the spirit. Anyone who asked for help got it, whether they were a member or not and whether they were active or not.

The direction is to give according to their wants(not needs).

On another note, my dad used to take me to see non-members, and sometimes give them blessings. He is just built that way.

Too bad the institutional dishonesty has kept so many good people in a double bind

I've seen it both ways.

In our ward, we had a bishop that was loose with the food orders, then the next bishop was strict. He required that people come to church at least once a month (or something like that), and that the RS pres meet with them and go over their budget and determine how much they really needed.

In my sister's ward they have people that have been getting food for years, never come to church, and also requested that the food be dropped off at their house because they couldn't get to the storehouse. The bishop was fine with it.

by saying "abusing the lord's money was second to murder," he later apologized.

I think the reason I was not asked to work for the church or attend church is the bishop was well aware of my situation. He was in the bishopric with my "ex" and everyone loved my ex. They were all rather upset about what happened to "us" to the point that when I resigned, the current bishop (who has lived by me for 29 years) told me he would never try to talk me out of resigning after what I had been through.

I hadn't paid tithing for about 10 years, hadn't attended church for at least 5.

Every case is different. I also think it depends on how much time you've been in the ward and who knows you.

As for dinners--I got one dinner when I had twins (different ward) and no dinners any other time even if my ex had 4 surgeries, 2 when he was in the bishopric.

I am amazed to hear that tscc actually gives anything to anyone who isn't in good standing. I stand corrected on that and will thus update my opinion of same.

The ward I grew up in had legendary grifters. In many cases, the only active members of their families were the teenagers.

I sure have a lot of trouble seeing the Mormon church as a victim.

You're absolutely right. Since the church keeps all the tithing money for itself, the real victims are the people who starve themselves and pay fast offerings.

My TBM ex and his mom were the type to use the church's welfare program, as they managed to convince the bishop that even though they didn't pay tithing, that he should allow them to have a food order. While the bishop did yell at my ex to get a job, he still didn't refuse to pay the water and electricity bills through the welfare program, nor did he stop with food orders.

That was also the time when the bishop offered to send my ex to DI to get white shirts for Sunday, but the fact is that as TBM as my ex was, he didn't always wear white shirts to church. The Sunday following that meeting, he started wearing white shirts, as he had 2 of them hanging in the closet.