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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 14, 2018 07:49PM

Why I prefer the word tribe regarding Mormonism. (Updated) long

This is my perspective and analysis based on my observation and experience living their teachings/theology and practices for several decades as a young adult convert.

Preface:
I am a bit a purist when it comes to the use of words. Cult has a general definition that has to do with worship or churches in general.

I do not use the term cult re: Mormonism any more than I would for Lutherans, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc. I don't use any terms or words that are unacceptable to believers, just as a general rule, as it often breaks down communication and often results in rejection on some level which I want to avoid.

It's my view that the word cult has too often become an emotionally loaded pejorative and used maliciously to disparage people's religion. I won't do that to Mormons or Mormonism because I want to keep the doors of communication open, not shut off all hope of future relationships.

I am also a bit of a skeptic and use critical thinking skills to evaluate how authors of books, who are accepted as some kind of authority, in this instance, have used the word cult to disenfranchise people who are living a different religion than they are, or one they find unacceptable, for some reason. I don't buy into that kind of play on the gullibility of people that may be in a raw, emotional state. I reject their authoritative-type manipulation of the words, just like I do anyone else who does the same thing.

My analysis of why Mormonism functions as a tribe. and why Mormonism has such a strong hold on one who is "truly converted" aka TBM True Believing Mormon. Tribe is part of core theology of the LDS Church. (references in text)

First, it's my conclusion that we are dealing with a God Myth- based on belief by faith and symbolism, not factual evidence- which has great power with the believers. That is true across the board and well established throughout human history.
(See "The Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell with Bill Moyers -
Hard back has the beautiful illustrations)
http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Myth-Joseph-Campbell/dp/0385418868

Secondly, the patterns within the church are similar to patterns in all church organizations: special leaders, special music, it's own language, special costuming, their own unique architecture, often generational life-long believers, rituals around the same major times in life: birth, coming of age, marriage, death.

Mormonism, in my long experience and observation is more accurately described as a two century, predominately American, patriarchal-line of authority, generational, cultural, societal, restoration church--religious tribe with it's own sacred clothing, music, and language, architecture, etc.

About their theology.
The word: tribe is used in their lexicon as an important part of their mission in the latter-days.
See this link for further explanation of their teachings on the Ten Tribes of Israel.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/israel

Members are given a Patriarchal Blessing by the specially called Patriarch in their area.
An important core belief of their theology is the Declaration of Lineage This is given to each person that receives their Patriarchal Blessing.

"A patriarchal blessing includes a declaration of lineage, stating that the person is of the house of Israel—a descendant of Abraham, belonging to a specific tribe of Jacob. Many Latter-day Saints are of the tribe of Ephraim, the tribe given the primary responsibility to lead the latter-day work of the Lord.

Because each of us has many bloodlines running in us, two members of the same family may be declared as being of different tribes in Israel.

It does not matter if a person's lineage in the house of Israel is through bloodlines or by adoption. Church members are counted as a descendant of Abraham and an heir to all the promises and blessings contained in the Abrahamic covenant (see Abrahamic Covenant)"
(As an adult convert, I was considered an adopted member of the tribe.)

Considering how tribes universally manifest, it is, in my view, the best way to understand how Mormonism creates a whole paradigm for the individual in a typically generational, patriarchal,familial,societal, religious context complete with it's own unique rituals/ordinances, music, language, including special garments (underwear) known as the Holy Garment of the Melchizedek Priesthood to be worn day and night including the special burial attire. Their Patriarchal Blessings go so far as to establish the tribe the person is from. See link above.

The core belief is the Eternal Family in a Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Their testimony; Joseph Smith Jr received the Keys of Authority to the Ordinances for eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom.

Disruption of that core provides the opportunity for mild to extreme measures for those that leave and no longer fit in the Eternal Family as they define it. It is a highly exclusive religiously based tribe. There is a strong element of: being in the world but not of the world, and us vs them mind set.

The various religions of the world have, throughout history, defined the specific rituals of each religious heritage-tribe etc. It's common for each one to place great importance on those rituals as the only correct way to perform the traditions and please their Gods: deities/savior, etc. Throughout the history of humanity, human beings have very often been instilled with the necessity of pleasing God and the horrific error and consequence of displeasing God. Mormonism follows much the same patterns.

If the traditions/beliefs, etc. don't appeal to a member of the group/tribe, for any number of reasons, and leaving becomes necessary,, it is often met with hostility as the customs/rituals of the religious tribe have been rejected which is seen as a personal betrayal, and the prior member could be seen as an enemy as we see in religious wars. This is particularly well documented in the animal kingdom.

Not all religions take such a strong stand as many Mormons believers do, however, to some degree, those that leave their heritage/religious tribe (Eternal Family), will be often have a great difficulty retaining any kind of cohesive relationship with the believers especially if they are family members. Often that can be overcome, but it takes some time for everyone to adjust to the changes, which is not something human beings do easily.

Even those that may not be "truly converted" may stay because it is their heritage, identity, tribe. It appears that strong family ties, especially generational ones with it's strong culture (only true church, Eternal Family etc.,) is paramount in keeping valued relationships with many who may not be a true believer, but accept it as their heritage, culture and familial, traditional religious choice. The need to preserve their place in the tribe is stronger than the need to leave it.
They find more value in it than out of it. It is often directly correlated to keeping their jobs, careers, educational scholarships,etc.

Religion in general requires a strong emotional attachment based on feelings, or a testimony or spiritual witness, as that is how they work best. They do not require factual evidence to be sustained by the believers, as the human truths for living are within the stories, parables, allegories, and so on which are filled with symbolism that translated into many languages.

In the case of Mormonism, there is a strong belief in the claims as literal. The fact is: we are more alike than different when establishing consistent universal truths for living; emotional attachments to strong beliefs override factual evidences especially when immersed in talk that is "truth."

Leaving your tribe, in this case Mormonism requires, in my view and my experience, the ability to detach emotionally and accept what works for others as a general rule. It also requires in part, the role of the observer and the necessity of separating what is about someone else and what is about us, personally.

Considering how tribes manifest, it is, in my view, the best way to understand how Mormonism creates a whole paradigm for the individual in a familial, societal, religious context aka tribe.
Leaving Mormonism is, for many, leaving their tribe in every sense of the word.

When leaving the LDS Church, we are, in deed, leaving our tribe. As believers, the member was told, through their Patriarchal Blessings that (for the most part) the member "is of the house of Israel—a descendant of Abraham, belonging to a specific tribe of Jacob. Many Latter-day Saints are of the tribe of Ephraim, the tribe given the primary responsibility to lead the latter-day work of the Lord."This is an integral core doctrine as part of their claim that they are a Restoration Church with the keys to act in the name of Jesus Christ.

More on why it's hard to leave:

When we leave the LDS Church/Mormonism, (belief system), in many ways the perception by the believers is that we betrayed and rejected our heritage - our tribe; our family, discarded our societal system, and our support system, including our friends and are now outsiders. It is seen as a frontal assault on their Eternal Family.

That is at the core, in my observation and experience, of why it's so difficult to leave the LDS Church. In many cases, every single element of our entire life, our total environment is tied up in our heritage, whether we are BIC (Born in the Covenant), or a convert (an adopted member of the tribe.)

Leaving Mormonism.

There is a world outside Mormonism, and it's carefully constructed filter.Welcome to the Wide World of Ideas: life is no longer a set of answers to every question, black and white, right and wrong, good and bad thinking. There is a whole new gray area and lots of new options.

The life or an outsider or specifically an apostate, for instance, requires a whole new World View and new support system. That is a daunting task and something that takes time. It also takes time and patience dealing with those who are living with and observing our changes. They need time to adjust to our major changes.

The looming question: If the LDS claims are not acceptable to be believed, then what is? And therein lies the journey and the need for information and support. Often that is found in this board and other online support boards.

One of the important elements, as I have experienced leaving Mormonism has been to take my power back and own it. That means I am very careful about who I give power over my life to. It also includes knowing we are OK and were OK all along. We can trust ourselves!

It means, for instance, no longer acquiescing to religious/ecclesiastical authority.It means learning to set new boundaries which is often difficult coming out of a religious environment with very few boundaries and a very large Confidentiality Loop.

What was acceptable in the day to day life of Mormonism and how it functions, is suddenly no longer the case. The controls (enforced or implied) are gone. The individual is left to figure it out for themselves.

Fortunately, we have the ability to touch base with others, to know we are not alone. We can learn from others. We can listen to a wide variety of opinions and decide what works for us. We don't all experience Mormonism the say way, nor so we leave it the same way.

We can carve out a new life of our own, based on our own ability to chart our own life on our own terms. How we do that is up to us. I prefer not to take all of the religious experiences so seriously. The past is gone and done with. I don't want it to mess up my present. What I want to remember with gratitude and cherish are the parts with value which are mostly my family.

Leaving Mormonism, or leaving your tribe, however one approaches the exit process, as I describe it, is never about being weak. It is about being strong enough to feel the fear and do it anyway even if the consequences of our decisions are not known at the time.

Leaving Mormonism is about keeping your self confidence, self esteem, self respect cranked up on high and not allowing anyone to destroy any part of you.

Leaving Mormonism is about giving yourself permission to be authentic and create your own World View. It's about taking off the Mormon filter and seeing the world with new eyes. It's about deleting and replacing dozens of automatic thinking scripts imprinted by years of teachings.

Leaving Mormonism is not just about having some hurt feelings or being offended, or having a bad experience. Life for everyone is filled with those kinds of experiences. If it were true that people left because of those notions, there would be no Mormons left in the church! :-)

Leaving Mormonism is about taking your power back and owning it and not being intimidated by the leaders or others who put their pants on one leg at a time, just like you do. Their authority only exists if we give it to them.

It is about choosing not to live by the doctrines/policies of a powerful, authoritative church that has something to say about every facet of one's life from what one eats, how one dresses-right down to the regulation 24/7 underwear, how one spends money, and their time. Mormonism is a life-style.

It's about being willing to step outside the cultural, religious boundaries of the familial tribe, and be OK doing it.

It is about setting boundaries and not allowing any Mormon leader to intrude into their personal lives, especially asking if one masturbates and other questions of a sexual nature. This is particularly inappropriate when a bishop interviews 12 to 19 year old (males and females) in the privacy of his office with no parent present. (My view is that will have to stop and the sooner the better!)

Leaving Mormonism is about recognizing that covenants and promises made on the metaphysical, supernatural claims at baptism, in the temple, sealing ceremony (for after death), etc. are symbolic only and not binding, never were and never will be. Only belief in the God Myth gives those covenants validity. Legally, there is no contract.

A careful study of D&C 132 with a comparison of the temple marriage ceremony dialog and the endowments in the temple show that the policy of polygamy (New and Everlasting Covenant) has not stopped, only changed in how it is currently lived to comply with the laws that were in existence all along. Read carefully, recall what you said and did, the marriage ceremony is tucked into your covenant to give all you have (time, talents, money) to the church. Some wonder if they ever married each other, of if they married the church.
Leaving Mormonism takes a huge dose of courage, tenacity and perseverance to withstand the onslaught of any Mormon who tries to discourage you from making your own choices.

There are some Mormons who have preconceived ideas that those who leave must have sinned, not repented fully or enough or in the proper way, not tried hard enough, didn't read the scriptures enough or with sincere intent, did not pray enough or in the right way, did not have the right attitude, lost "the spirit," were adulterers, and apostates, labeling their prior friends and relatives as something less than acceptable.
They operate out of fear that they have lost their "Celestial Family." which has been well imprinted by generations of the cultural, tradition mores of the tribe.

Those who leave are often treated as an enemy -- the spawn of Satan, and as such are often shunned and ignored after being denigrated in the most despicable manner; some, more so than others. A few escape this completely.This is especially grievous behavior when it occurs in families and is used as a wedge.

Some forget their own 11th Article of Faith in their zeal to denigrate and vilify anyone who leaves.
11th Article of Faith "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own heart, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

It is a breath of fresh air to meet a Mormon who is respectful and will honestly honor the choice to leave Mormonism and live their own 11th Article of Faith. Fortunately, I'm married to one!

It might be a little bit of a side-ways acceptance, as they maintain the Mormon World View, but at least, some do try. And, for that, I am very grateful.

I was fortunate to be married for over 50 years to a true believer that was able to live and show by example the best of their beliefs when I changed my mind and left the LDS Church.

Leaving Mormonism is knowing and never forgetting that you are OK, you were OK all along. You did nothing "wrong." There is no need for guilt, or shame either.

Leaving Mormonism is also about being able to have a good healthy, healing laugh at ourselves and the goofy, funny things we used to do. Takes awhile to get to that point, for some. I'm fortunate. I get to the humor quickly and I find it very healing.
Leaving Mormonism is about knowing that it is OK to be an authentic adult and choose your own underwear! How funny is that anyhow?

The word tribe best describes my observations, and experiences living the religion as a convert or several decades, completely immersed as a believing member. It is an analysis that gives me the greatest latitude in understanding how it functions and why it is difficult to leave it. I like the term, as it's all inclusive, encompassing the totality of it's history and how it functions today.

John Dehlin at his Disciplinary Court: "I feel like Mormonism is my heritage," he told KUER Tuesday. "It's my culture, it's my tribe, it's my identity. I don't believe my Mormonism can be taken from me by a process like this. Mormonism is bigger than the LDS Church... I still claim the title 'Mormon.'"

Our experiences, as LDS folks, are often very different for a variety of reasons. One does not minimize the other just because they are different.

“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.”
―attributed to Rudyard Kipling... and Friedrich Nietzsche



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2018 08:04PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: Felix ( )
Date: July 15, 2018 02:14PM

I don't know quite how to respond to so much but I'll try.
Your post is not as long as Steve Benson's posts! :)

I have often wondered why religion has so much influence over people. People will make major sacrifices and life changing decisions under the influence of a charismatic religious leader than under almost any other persuasion or influence.

I have come to the opinion that in the long evolutionary process our ancestors passed through it was their/our relationship to the tribe that has shaped and defined who we are today.

Religions/churches are the closest thing that has any modern resemblance to the tribe. They offer the social connectedness and community that tribal life did. They also claim to provide answers to some of the big mysteries that explain our life's purpose; where did I come from, why am I here and where am I going.

We, some of us, are able to see beyond the cave wall and while still feeling a need and desire to have tribal connections can see the folly in adopting some of the dogma required with membership.

This leads me to want to compare and contrast religious tribalism and the myths they embrace with secularism which tends to discard myth and embrace science as its truth and method of discovery.

I, unlike John Dehlin, found so much deplorable about the Mormon history and doctrine that I thoroughly and openly renounced it, tribe and all. The baby went out with the bath water.

I was bothered by the polygamy and polyandry practiced by J.S. and his followers and the many betrayals of loyal spouses and the broken hearts that resulted from it. This caused me to question everything else very closely for a long time and lead me to discover all the other problems with the church that were intentionally kept hidden from us.

My tbm wife said I should put her on the alter which I responded to her by saying " I will, it is called divorce". I moved out and rented for a year. I never got around to the divorce thing because I didn't want to spend the money on an attorney and the pile of paper work required to do it atourney free was more than I wanted to deal with.

After a year of supporting two households and time to cool off and think things through we decided to work it out as we do get along otherwise and the kids didn't want to see us divorce.

I could say a lot more on this topic.Thoroughly enjoyed reading your post SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 15, 2018 02:46PM

Felix
-------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for reading my post and for your comments. Glad you were able to save your family. I've written about how I kept my marriage to a staunch believing generational Mormon after I left. We hit 50 plus years before he passed away in Jan 2013. Fortunately, we were mature adults about it, at least, eventually, and worked it out on his recommendation: "agree to disagree."

Yes, some of my posts are long. I like to do my research and be thorough. Brevity is not my strong point! :-)

I was a 19 year old convert. My background plays heavily into how and why I deal with Mormonism differently that some. My perspective and how I interpreted my experiences will be different than a generational Mormon.

I've worked to detach emotionally, (a difficult process), and be an observer which has helped me deal with my life as a Mormon female.

I tend to look at "the big picture" and see Mormonism as just one of hundreds of faith based beliefs - in the same old game of: "my god is better than your god."

Thank again, for getting through the long post. :-)

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: July 15, 2018 02:55PM

One of the things to ask before joining any organization is “How will they treat me if I leave?”

If they treat you like crap, it’s about them. I don’t care why. The problem is that they think that’s okay in the first place. It’s wrong thinking. I like gray too, but lines need to be drawn for practical reasons. See, that’s when they can’t hide their true colors. TSCC is an “It’s all about me/us” religion. Do Catholics or Unitarians treat people like that when they leave? Something is clearly rotten in the state of Denmark. Or Utah.

Bad thinking is actually bad. It leaks out and contaminates the world. By the same token, good thinking leaks out and cleanses the world a little bit at a time. So I think I can use “tribe” rather than the compromised word. Kind of how I don’t say “I feel gay”.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2018 03:11PM by babyloncansuckit.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 15, 2018 03:29PM

babyloncansuckit


I don't think Mormons will give an honest answer about how they will treat people who leave. Also, it varies from somewhat easy to extremely difficult.

Mormons make a big deal out of the Tribes of Israel and your personal designated tribe. Other religions don't do that.

Bad, strange, odd, bizarre thinking is often part of religion, all of them. I just posted an article about that.

I came into Mormonism when "gay" meant happy, even in the songbook. Oh my,

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Posted by: Historian ( )
Date: July 15, 2018 05:41PM

I find your use of just "Lutherans" curious. Why did you not use just Lutheran and not all the other mainstream idalets of Christianity?

There appears to be more to the story here....

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 16, 2018 12:25AM

Historian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find your use of just "Lutherans" curious. Why
> did you not use just Lutheran and not all the
> other mainstream idalets of Christianity?
>
> There appears to be more to the story here....

I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Are you referring to this sentence in my essay?
"I do not use the term cult re: Mormonism any more than I would for Lutherans, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc.

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Posted by: ProvoX ( )
Date: July 16, 2018 01:45AM

Lutherans, along with Presbyterians, Methodists etc, as a general rule will not "Shun" people who leave their church - that is a big difference between them and TSCC

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 16, 2018 02:02AM

ProvoX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lutherans, along with Presbyterians, Methodists
> etc, as a general rule will not "Shun" people who
> leave their church - that is a big difference
> between them and TSCC.

To be clear, that was not the point of my comment.
The point I was making has to do with the word: cult and what it actually means and why I don't use it in regards to Mormonism anymore than I would use it for any other religious group. It's been turned into a pejorative and bastardized in my view, using it to denigrate other people's belief systems.
I want to keep my friends and relatives on good terms. I am not going to use a word that is guaranteed to shut down communication.
Your question about the other Christian sects, are included in my "etc." comment.

In addition, it's my view that people have been played like pawns to believe several author's list about what is a cult, denigrating the believers, while ignoring their own belief system. You are all in a cult except me. I find that a cheap, dirty trick used on vulnerable people. It's part of the same old game; my god is better than your god, while the authors happily continue to make deposits into their bank accounts.

I'm a convert. My perspective is going to be different, most likely than a generational Mormon.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2018 02:26PM by SusieQ#1.

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