I'm 17 years old and I don't really know when I started questioning the church..I know that I have always been upset at certain things they've told me since I've been 12..Like how they imply that women should just stay at home and cook and clean and have children..I had a seminary teacher tell me this year that Women should get married and have babies before getting a degree or else it's considered idolizing worldly things before God. When there was a panic from a bunch of people we started saying "How are we going to have money to raise a kid?" and he just said, "Don't you think God is going to help you out with that?" I just find it unbelievable. Another seminary teacher told me in 9th grade that the reason for the Holocaust was it was God's way of punishing the Jews for denying Christ...
There are so many things in my mind that don't add up or make sense..the hard thing about not believing is I'm still scared it's all true and this "devil" has pulled me farther away and I'm not going to be happy when I die because I won't make it to the celestial kingdom and I'm scared to grow up more and have sex because I will just feel so guilty because It won't be with a temple marriage.
Has anybody felt this scary guilt that maybe there is a chance it's all true and you're just screwing yourself over but there's no way I can go to church because it's all a lie. But they tell me that it's because I might have something to repent for and that's why I'm not getting answers but why would God deny me the truth just because I have something to repent for? I just need someone to relate to..I know this post was kind of a mess..I'm just confused.

How much guilt, if any, did you feel when you hit "post message" on your post? With any luck, that was your peak.

La iglesia mormona is demonstrably false. If it weren't for the 'warm fuzzies' and the cultish practices that keep the sheep grazing placidly, it would lose members at a higher rate than it is now.

If you're BIC, in a Happy Valley (Utah County) ward, you've got a tough row to hoe. But at 17, you've got plenty of time.

The misogyny you've already identified in the church isn't going away. Just ask Kate Kelly.

Welcome! And just keep reading!!

You're dealing with a bunch of stuff. You are not alone. You will find many, many, many, did I mention many (?) people here who have been where you are, who are where you are, and who will be happily envious of you because you are thinking these things at 17 years of age.

Hang in there. Here comes the love...

I don't know how long you've lurked, but if your thread starts to sink only because other ones are more active at the time, top it. No worries. Just top it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2015 11:56PM by Beth.

Hello Kayla. Atleast, that's what I'll call you since you seem to have three extra a's at the end of your name.

I know what you're going through. I am fourteen, a month away from fifteen, but I am certain of my religion, or rather, the lack of it. I stay silent, coming out to only a few school friends I trust.

When I left, it was not on suspicion of the immoral beliefs of leaders, but rather, facts that proved he whole church false. While I don't know if you have as well seen these facts or even need them, I'll just tell you by experience.

At first, I feared leaving because the only one unforgivable sin was denying the Holy Ghost. For weeks, I was in fear I'd go to outer darkness.

But when eventually sunk in that the church wasn't true, I realized, there was no outer darkness to be sent to, nor someone to send me there.

These people on this board can help you. Stay around awhile, listen to them. I'm only a kid, younger than you, so while I can relate and empathize with you, I have little to say. I was born in the church, and found my way out pretty soon.

I can't quite put my thoughts into words well. I just want you to know, you're not alone.

Just because you're a month away from 15 doesn't mean that you're stupid. ;-)

...you could have become a plural wife of Joseph Smith. :-)

randyj - haha!

It is good to see these bright youngins' coming to RFM!

I seem to remember an essay written by the church not long ago. it said that the 37 year old Prophet Joseph was instructed to marry somebody pretty much your same age. that's how I know its not true.

You go, pianoforte! =)

You were smart enough to know things weren't adding up. Many girls in the church are simply trying to survive until college when they can make their own choices. (I know of several girls like you!)

They know they have more to offer the world than marrying a house, having babies as fast as possible, and being told what to do, think, eat, drink, and wear.

Study hard. I expect great things from you. Girl power! =)

Ah...by the way everyone, I'm not a girl... xD

(Laughing is always a good medicine in hard times, at least for me. But that wasn't a joke)

Sorry dude!!!

I followed the leader... I'm still proud of you for being smart. You didn't buy in to the magical priesthood super powers? Good for you. When did you first question what you were being taught?

Since you don't need to waste time on a mission, you will be able to concentrate on school. Are you studying music?

Thanks for encouraging other teens who are afraid of questioning the church. They need to know they aren't alone.

"there's no way I can go to church because it's all a lie."
with this statement you are on your way out. The dogmatic nonsense that religion beats into you will stick around for awhile, maybe for the rest of your life. Just remember this statement and the reasons you came to the conclusion that it is a LIE.

relax, it's not true. Keep studying the history and the doctrine. in no time you'll be 100% certain it's not.

You are very smart and courageous to be honest about your feelings. I applaud you for trusting yourself. If god made you then you are perfect. You shouldn't have any feelings of guilt. Likely you are an ordinary teen that has done ordinary teen things. The church wants you to feel guilty. That is a form of control. Stay brave and trust your gut instincts. Don't wait 20 or 30 years to deal with these issues. Be authentic. Be yourself. Don't let anyone define you or put you in a box. I left the church 2 years ago when my daughter was 16 because I wanted to save her from what the church was trying to make her. Thank god she is finding herself and loves exploring life. Pursue your passions and dreams. I hate what the church does to young women. It is wrong and disgusting. Best of luck.

I started catching on that it was false when I was about 16. This was back about 1972, so before the internet. The whole story just didn't make since and once I learned about Evolution that was all she wrote. I played the "hiding game" till I got out on my own, which I did a couple of months before my 18th birthday by moving away for college.

Congrats for breaking out of the matrix. You are freed from a lifelong servitude to a lie. Enjoy life!

I agree with the advice given so far. I just wanted to tell you that the fear that you feel was deliberately put into place to keep people from leaving the church. Even after I knew that the church was false and stopped attending, I still wore my garments for several months. Part of it was due to habit but another part was the fear/stigma of removing them. I've since overcome it (mostly) by simply realizing that God (if He exists) surely would not punish me for acting upon the information I had and following my conscience.

This is difficult to go through, but consider yourself very lucky to come to this point so early in your life. I wish you the best luck... and come here often if you need support.

Thinking of you, tonight. Trust yourself about the concerns you have. Take your time to study things out. Hope you have someone to talk to. It is a good idea not to share your doubt's with people in authority till you have your feet solidly set.

IMO it is so very important to study out all sides of information
about Mormonism. Take your time to figure things out.

I wish I had understood what the issues with Mormonism were so many years ago before joining at your age.

Do you have activities you can focus on besides religion. One of our sons enjoyed learning something new (to play the guitar) besides listening to music.

Please seek counsel about going to college. I wish I had.

IMO the LDS Mormon church members are like peasants in a feudal system that demands servitude so the people at the top can reap CEO wages and send their children to college for free. These leaders have paid servants, healthcare, expensive clothes while they counsel members to be obedient and pay tithing before rent and groceries (Oh they want everyone to believe God will provide)
But it seems like these leaders are the only ones who benefit.

Loyalty v. fealty

Interesting difference between the two words. The system that exist right now demands loyalty on the part of the members/peasant to the ruling class. The debt runs one way.

But when it's done correctly, it is fealty, meaning that the debts exist on both sides.

misogynistic marriages only have loyalty running from the wife to the husband; he knows her secret name, but she doesn't know yours.

Imagine being in a marriage where your husband doesn't let you know his cell phone number; when he rings you, it shows 'blocked' and you by ghawd better answer promptly. But you can never call him. Interesting paradigm, isn't it? That's a pretty good snap shot of mormonism.

That's a good example about the cell phone.

When I heard men would know the temple name of their wife/wives, yet she/they couldn't know his, I thought it was a joke at first.

I then learned many more really outrageous jokes/facts about the doctrine. My problem was I actually listened in church (at first until I heard everything) and read all the scriptures. They count on people not understanding the mumbo jumbo, or not listening...

I think there’s more of a plan behind this than just sheer disrespect for women, although that’s in there too. I see it as a way to divide and conquer; to drive a wedge between spouses so they aren’t a team. That leaves each spouse a little more alone and susceptible. It’s subtle, but it’s another notch to ensure nothing undermines the ultimate loyalty to the church in each person.

I tell my wife everything. I have no human relationships closer than the ones between my wife and I and my young children; we are a unit. I can recall many times earlier in life when we went through weird or awkward situations and we would say, “It’s you and me against the world.” We are a formidable team the two of us; especially if you try and pull anything over on us … we have each other’s backs, totally.

Breaking that bond by driving a wedge between marriages leaves each person a little more alone, and just that much more susceptible to the con. They wouldn’t want you to form a unit and start sticking up for yourselves, or to have too much strength as a cohesive unit. I think it’s a devious plan to undermine the independent strength a marriage bond can provide. Divide and conquer.

You know … families first.

That cell phone analogy was excellent. I just wanted to add why I think they do it.

I'm not going to pretend to know exactly how you feel. However, when I was still meeting with some missionaries (before I found out that I was miserable and decided that I was wasting my time trying to live up to expectations set by a church that wasn't even true), I do remember panicking over whether I was simply allowing myself to be deceived. There was also a part of me that wanted it to be true. Slowly, that part of me got smaller and smaller.

I'm going to ask you some questions. I'm not sure how you're feeling about religion in general right now--or God. But do you think that a god who's supposed to be all-loving would want you to continue down this path, when so much really doesn't ring true for you? Why would God deny you the answers you are so earnestly seeking because of a sin you (supposedly) need to repent of? To me, everyone sins. But that doesn't mean that God loves us any less or will punish us for asking questions--and it doesn't mean that he'll refuse to answer simply because we're not perfect. We're human; we're flawed. Those flaws are part of what makes us who we really are. And God loves us no matter what we do. He always will. We don't have to earn his love or approval. He already loves us. Nothing can keep him from loving us. (Sorry. Didn't mean to go off on such a tangent.)

Be proud of yourself. You're looking at the world around you with a much more mature perspective, examining what you've been taught critically. This is your life. Only you can decide what you want to do with it and what you believe. And you deserve to be happy.

I know what I've said may not be of much help. I'm nothing close to the wealth of wisdom and eloquence many of the other people in this community are. But here is the most important thing--there are people out there who have been through at least something similar to what you're dealing with right now. And there is light at the end of the tunnel (please excuse the cliché).

Don't be scared. (Easier said than done, I'm sure.) You're not alone. You're never alone. I hope you find what you're looking for, whatever that may be.

Dear Kayla,

Like you, I started asking questions at a young age... I did baptisms at the temple and knew I would never go there again. After BYU, I left the church, had a great career, traveled, and did many things I dreamed of doing when I was your age.

Your seminary teacher needs more students to keep his job, long after you leave. He won't pay for your obstetrician, diapers, food, housing... and neither will God.

Never listen to anyone who tells you that you don't need an education. Focus on finishing a degree, and grad school. Discover what you're interested in and pursue each step to reach your goals.

You don't have to be sexually active until you are married; that is entirely up to you. It is best to wait on marriage and kids (if you choose that path) until after college graduation.

Please don't stress out with worry. It isnt necessary to decide everything at once. Focus on doing well in school and having fun. Once you study more about real church history vs faithful history, you may end up avoiding BYU, where your options and opportunities for real education and growth are limited (they treat students like naughty children).

The church controls people with fear and guilt, especially females who ask logical questions. Education is your ticket to freedom and the sky is the limit. You're a very smart and courageous girl, Kayla. Rise above the frustrations and chart your own course. =)

I used to think and feel exactly as the op described. For years I was in turmoil about the same things.

OP is very very lucky. You have something I didn't have until I was 50. It's called the internet.

You can go online and annon ask any TBM's, and the ones that are somewhere in the middle. You can read MormonThink, CESletter, and so much more information and support is out there. I didn't have anything.

I was painted as a slut, tramp, loser, used goods, you name it, just because I had questions, and followed bishops and sp's extremely bad advice.They ruined a huge chunk of my life and left me in a state of mass confusion. I didn't know how to get the help I needed. Nothing I ws being told made any sense. The only solution seemed to be dependent on me landing a man who wanted the job of having a brainless spineless woman who would obey him. I didn't know any of those, and didn't want to.

Color me hopeless. How many RM's can a girl dump before they put a notice about in in the mens restroom about you at the stake center? The answer is some where between 2 and 9. Depends on who your father is.


Decades later I found out it's a roulette game they play with the girls.

The church should get its fat nose out of your business.

Shall the youth of Zion falter?

Unless God unplugs the internet it is certain.

Welcome home Kayla.

....and the geezers told her that her young age was an issue. It made her doubt herself even though a teenager's BS meter is pretty good.

Looking back, I am proud of the decisions I made at that time. That teenager had the maturity and smarts that no one gave her credit for. Hang in there, run for the side door and slip out when no one is looking. You are on the right track and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. And remember, you are wiser than they want you to know.

Lori

Kaylaaa,

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this! Being a teenager is hard enough without having to deal with losing your religion. I completely understand your feelings. Occasionally, those same thoughts will enter my mind. You are so much better off than I am discovering these things now than in your thirties (with a temple marriage and children) like me!

You need to arm yourself with knowledge. There is some indisputable evidence that the church isn't true. Read the CES Letter. Know it inside and out and continue to research further. This will be the key to eradicating that guilt.

If there is a God, then He will not condemn you for leaving the church if you are solely seeking for truth. That God gave you the brain that you have. He gave you the experiences that shape the way you interpret the world. If you have drawn the conclusion that the church isn't true as a result of those thoughts and experiences, then God will know it and will understand. (Would God be mad at you for thinking 2+2=4? No! When you know all of the real issues, the only logical conclusion you can reach is that it's not true.) People may assume it's because you're lazy, desiring to sin, or deceived by Satan, but you will know that you made this choice with full integrity if you've done your part by doing the research. If you're like me, you desire to know the truth more than you desire be right.

Best of luck, honey! Lots of hugs and kisses :)

Others have already said this in different ways, but if you remain in the church, you are only going to observe more contradictions and be subjected to more attempts to shame you. You'll have more questions with fewer answers, more headaches with less comfort.

Start preparing now for a fulfilling post-mormon life! You have much to look forward to!

Kayla,

I'm 19 and went through a few years of internal questioning before I firmly decided that I do not believe in 'the church' (tscc). You should know that I was a very active Mormon and was even dubbed a super Mormon for quite some time. I never got to the point I ever said "I know the Church is true", but it certainly made sense and it was a part of life. Once at EFY we sang together Army of Helaman and a picture of Christ was projected. I strongly felt the 'spirit' and thought of how beautiful it would be to be in kinship with all these good people in heaven with Christ. I lived it and had no real reason to doubt it and trusted that one day I would have an overwhelming conviction that the church was true. This never happened, I never felt anything I could trust that I hadn't worked up the feelings myself, and I was getting close to the time of my mission so I felt prompted to put more thought into my testimony. One time when I was pacing around in my kitchen a thought struck me "Could it be made up? Can it really be? Is it possible... Yes, there is a real possibility I'm being mislead." This was when I opened my mind up to the idea that I could actually be wrong about the church. I didn't think this was the case, but now I was willing to think openly about it. This led me to decided to analyse all the reasons I thought the Church was true and to validate them.

I'll compile the list of things I thought about over that time which led me to determine my conclusion that the Church was false.

Note that I did not do any internet searches looking for possible inconsistencies/ contradictions in what the church teaches about it's history/ actual history. I just assumed that there was nothing surprising I would find by researching my own religion I thought I knew so well (see: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1341751). Since coming here I have found out that this notion is quite contrary to the truth, there are plenty of solid facts you can base a disbelief of 'the church' on.

However here's what I thought about which may help give some perspective on the questions you have right now:
-Moronie's Promise, Knowing it is a good seed: The Church emphasizes trusting the Spirit and makes a distinction between the Spirit being a feeling and being an emotion. Most people know that they can't trust their own emotions because they conjure those feelings themselves. What makes the Spirit special is that it comes from the outside and you can therefore trust it. I beg a differ. I would take yet another step back and say that you can't trust your feelings in general. What I thought about is how convicted I was there was a Santa when I was younger, felt he existed, and then he in actuality did not. I also thought of how I was scared of monsters when I was younger, yet despite feeling their presence, despite my real feelings of fear, they did not exist. Since then I have observed an interesting moment which also discredits the spirit. A friend was driving in a video game and ran over a mine- "I knew there was going to be mine there!" he exclaimed. Now I think we can both agree he hadn't felt a Spiritual prompting while playing a video game, however the feeling was the same as a spiritual prompting. This video here explains how someone "felt the spirit" praying about a book similar to the Book or Mormon which was later discovered to be fabricated (very good): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycUvC9s4VYA

-Relying on the light of other people's testimonies:
So a lot of people I respected and thought were smart are Mormon. This gave credibility to Church being true. However I then thought of all the people in other churches thinking their church was true (as displayed in the above video). If two different smart people think two different things, maybe they are both wrong. On top of this taking a blow to my deemed credibility to the church was a stupid talk, consider the following quote from Russel M. Nelson:
"Yet some people erroneously think that these marvelous physical attributes happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself, “Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?” The likelihood is most remote. But if so, it could never heal its own torn pages or reproduce its own newer editions!" My mom laughed at the line, the audience laughed at the big bang theory. I understood and had respect for this theory, and seeing it being talked about so ignorantly was a red flag to the intelligence and accuracy of the Church.

-Miracle vs. Coincidence: The Church shares a lot of crazy stories of things working out right. They can't fathom things going so well without the interception of Gods hand. However this is where I observed confirmation bias: only acknowledging the cases which supported God's grace, vs. the times that didn't work out. There is a term "synchronization" which means that because there are thousands of things that happen in a day, it is likely that there will be a coincidence of some sort throughout the day. This works hand in hand with confirmation bias, meaning you will only remember a select number of those coincidence which support your beliefs. If you don't believe in coincidences consider how two interesting days followed one after another Friday the 13th, then Pi day. No one's calling that a miracle.

-Praying works: People pray for something in specific, and they seize an opportunity! Prayer worked! I beg a differ, prayer makes you have something in particular on your mind thus you are more apt to spot needed opportunities.

-Life hasn't felt different since: I have still been happy me since I've stopped believing in the Gosple of happiness. (However leaving the Church is emotionally draining, so I think it does have lasting effects on many people.)

These were the things that immediately came to mind. There may be a few other things I've thought of. Feel free to ask me about other claims the church makes I may have overlooked.

So after thinking all this I was 99% convinced that the church had me deceived. Some reason I couldn't just shake the feeling I might be wrong though. What if the church is true? But realized I had no rational reason for thinking this, I was just scarred of embracing atheism and go down paths that would take tedious repentance if I were to go down. So I remained a worthy member without a real testimony except wanting the church to be true for some time. I believed the notion that life was so much more meaningful with the church being true, and the alternative was having a blank, non-existent consciousness after I died. Risking the possibility of my shot at heaven (although slim), seemed stupid seeing how crucial it was. However I would to state my viewpoint has changed since then. Eternal salvation is not the only thing at stake. No, the world be leave to the next generation and all to come it at stake. My life may not be eternal, however my influence is. I don't want to be responsible for a lie that suppresses people to go down and spread through generations. But I decided to give the church one last test. I got to the point I was being asked about my patriarchal blessing, I heard many accounts of it being personal, and specifically targeting peoples needs. So I had mine. It said absolutely nothing about it. Poo. It seemed more like one of those "if your born this time of year, this is your personality" kind of things that have general explanations, yet that everyone can relate to on a deep level making it seem personal.

So that's when I finally decided to put my foot down and decide enough pretending was enough.

And pretty much nothing changed except I wasn't so uptight about sins, and didn't feel to guilt-trip myself anymore. I didn't want to hurt my parents who's life revolve around the Church so I kept going. Whatever.

But the time for mission was still coming up and then dodging various pressures became tiresome. I was thinking of the craziest ideas to avoid going on a mission, and hadn't even yet put my foot down against it because I was so scarred of hurting my mom.

I finally told her the reason I was putting it off was because I wouldn't feel authentic about it with my current testimony before I headed of to a semester at BYUI. During that time my parents had time to wrap their heads around the idea I may never do a mission. I came back and my dad began pushing various religious things at me to try and strengthen testimony. I realized I should tell them a little bit why I didn't have a "strong" testimony, so that they would respect it and stop simply assuming I wasn't do primary things to strengthen it. So I explained a little bit and it was ok. I didn't tell them just how non-existent my testimony is; they still think I'm an active Mormon, but it was enough for them to respect the idea of me not serving a mission. Well kinda respect it, my dad talked to me the other day how much my patrearcle blessing spoke of my mission and asked me if it was personal scripture, but whatever. I could only say "OK thanks", explaining I didn't believe in the blessing would be too blaspheme. Anyways I don't blame him for trying.

So I wish you well. Be aware of the pressures you will feel to conform to Mormonism. I bowed to them probably more than I should have, but I'm nearly free from the pressure now. Luckily Women don't get the quite as much pressure to do a mission if you choose to be a silent exmo (if you become convinced that is)

You may also be interested in this thread concerning how you can be confident the Church is not 'true': http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1341235

Kayla, what you write makes a lot of sense! I pray that you will keep on making sense. Though you can't trust your emotions in a "mass hysteria" situation, you can trust your own mind and heart. Your writing tells us that you have a lot of wisdom and logic.

Your seminary teacher is an idiot.

My children never did believe in Mormonism. They were all BIC, and baptized, and were eager to please me and their father--but they didn't like comments like that Holocaust remark, and the racism and sexism. When they were little children, they told me that they didn't believe in a Heaven (the Celestial Kingdom) that would not welcome Mother Theresa, or their favorite non-Mormon aunt, or their wonderful grandmother, who left Mormonism to become a Lutheran. Children have a purity, that the Mormons try to brainwash out of them, and a good sense of right and wrong, and what is "creepy." They knew when the Mormons were being disrespectful and abusive. They knew that true friends don't slander you behind your back. They knew that good Christians don't lie, and lies were taught to them every Sunday. My children led me out of the cult, and I'm grateful and proud.

I'm proud of you, too! May you have the life of your dreams, and all the happiness and freedom you deserve! The posters here give you some great advice. We are all on your side. (((hugs)))

If Mormonism is true, it will wait for you because that's how love works. God wouldn't want you to fear. Fear is, after all, a mental reaction to uncertainty. In other words, it's not real. A true church would certainly not use your fears against you.

There is no chance that Mormonism is true. Does it contain some truth? Yes, but it uses that against you for selfish ends so what good is it? The BoA has been proven false eight ways from Sunday. The BoM has virtually been proven false (there's debate whether there's a smoking gun) but can you believe the narrative of the Jaredite barges? Physically impossible.

Ask yourself this. Do they love you, or do they love the image of you they've built up in their minds? Say things that offend their religious sensibilities and see how they react. Do they try to understand you or do they shut you out? Would a true church turn people into that?

I understand the desire to escape TSCC, but it would be better to treat it as a learning experience. If you can live with crazy without becoming crazy yourself, you've accomplished something. There are worse lies than TSCC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2015 04:17AM by bradley.

I have no idea what happens when we die. (No one else does, either, since no one has come back from the dead, in our time, to tell us.) There are people who have wishes, beliefs, ideas about what might happen. But no one knows with certainty.

I am certain about one thing, reading your post. If you stay in the Church, you will be miserable.

I say this because you don't want the things they want for you, and will impose on you.

Please, please don't make any hasty decisions about your life (going on a mission, marrying early, dropping out of college, abandoning your dreams). Take your time and decide for yourself what is best for you.

I also encourage you to go to a non-LDS university. You need to meet people outside the Church and not be subject to its pressures.

It's a wonderful, varied and amazing world out there. And there are lots of non-LDS people who are doing just fine.

You are smart to question a confused and incomprehensible religion.

Kaylaaaa, If you fear that "satan" is influencing you, read my article about how you can check whether something is from Satan or not:
http://packham.n4m.org/satan.htm

It gives you a step-by-step yardstick for seeing who represents satan.

I appreciate each and every reaponse. Thanks.

Mormonism will steal your life. We have been brainwashed to live a life that someone else is directing and controlling, like 15 really old white men.

The time has come to seriously decide if this is your life, or are you a puppet controlled in a one size fits all cult.

When you follow the 15 old effers, they will use you for the benefit of the cult at your expense. You will not be allowed to be you, you will be a pawn in their game. You will not mature correctly, you will be guilted and shamed into cult servitude.

For me personally, Mormonism is a perversion of Christianity. Mormon are actors. They aren't allowed to be authentic, they must be tbm.

I feel like a failure that I have 6 kids trapped in a cult. I discovered Christianity after leaving, and it is so very different from Mormonism.