Had a conversation recently with a TBM and they were saying how inspired BY must have been to include elevator shafts in the SL Temple. They were like "how else would he have known to include those?" This was a sign to them that BY was a prophet and a testimony that TSCC is really true.

I said, well if you want to internet search and fact check the history on elevators, you will find they already existed before the SL Temple was built.

And to top it off, you can even cite a BYU source that debunks the old elevator myth:

Some have suggested that in the Salt Lake Temple, shafts were provided for elevators and spaces left throughout the building for electric conduits and heating ducts even before these technologies were known. Angell Sr., however, certainly would have learned about elevators, which were just coming into use at the time of his 1856 visit to Europe. By the early 1860s, electricity was already being used in Utah for the Deseret Telegraph system. Hence, most of the temple’s interior was designed and built long after these technologies emerged. Although the west center tower proved to be a convenient location for the two main elevators, there is no evidence to suggest that their shafts were planned when there was no knowledge of this technology.

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/salt-lake-city/4-design-construction-and-role-salt-lake-temple

" . . . [T]he concept of elevators had already been around by the time they started building the [SLC] temple. The first elevator shaft preceded the Otis safety passenger elevator by 4 years and was built into the Cooper Union in NYC in 1853, the same year construction began on the SLC temple. Brigham Young had sent the temple architect, Truman Angell around the world to study great contemporary and historical architecture in 1856, so it is perfectly reasonable that he would have known about the elevator. So it wasn't prophetic at all, but we might say it was progressive planning."

("Elevator," at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevator)


(internet answer to the question, "Slightly tangent, but the old story about Brigham leaving space for an elevator shaft is false, right?"?; as noted above, see also, “The Design, Construction, and Role of the Salt Lake Temple,” by Richard O.Cowan, professor of Church History, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, Chapter 4, “Salt Lake City: The Place Which God Prepared,“ ed. Scott C. Esplin and Kenneth L. Alford (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University; and Salt Lake City, UT: Deseret Book, 2011), pp. 47–68)
_____


The SLC temple elevator myth is simply one of many tall tales in Mormon folklore:

"Folklore, including Mormon folklore, is dynamic rather than static, changing emphasis and details over time. Latter-day Saints pass on the group's cultural heritage from person to person and from generation to generation. These elements of heritage may not only be passed through written documents or formal instruction but may be found in stories and customs in both family and church settings. Tales learned at home or in a church function may later be repeated to others. Stories learned at home, in the LDS Family Home Evening or other family gatherings, may later emerge in family activities in the next generation.

"In general, Mormon folklore may be presented in three broad categories:

-"The spoken and written word: including songs, family stories, humorous tales, and contemporary accounts from missionaries and church leaders.

-"Handicrafts and memorial items: including traditional tools and implements, holiday traditions, family keepsakes and scrapbooks, and a family Book of Remembrance kept in association with genealogical records.

-"Unique Mormon activities: including Family Home Evening, youth dating practices, family celebrations of birth and baptismal dates, genealogical activities, and church and community celebrations of holidays such as Pioneer Day.

"Tales and Popular Beliefs.

"The following are examples of tales and popular concepts from Mormon folklore, including:

-"Cain, the killer of Abel, is alive and wanders the earth, wearing no clothing but being covered by hair and that apostle David W. Patten encountered him once; and that reported sightings of Bigfoot can be explained by this story

-"modern encounters and assistance from one or more of 'The Three Nephites' disciples chosen by Jesus in the Book of Mormon, who were blessed by Jesus to 'never taste of death; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men . . .'[

-"on December 7, 1941, Japanese aircraft pilots attempted to bomb or strafe the [Mormon]Cchurch's Laie Hawaii Temple just prior to or just after the attack on Pearl Harbor, but were prevented from doing so by mechanical failures or an unseen protective force, and that the Japanese pilot who attempted to bomb or strafe the Laie Hawaii Temple was converted to the LDS Church after he saw a picture of the temple in the possession of Mormon missionaries in Japan.

-"Jesus was married, possibly to Mary Magdalene, Mary, sister of Lazarus, and/or Martha, and that Jesus may have been a polygamist and had children.

-"The miracle of the gulls, in which the crops of early Mormon settlers in Utah Territory were saved from destruction by a vast flock of seagulls that ate swarms of Mormon crickets that were devouring the crops.

-"In designing the Salt Lake Temple, Brigham Young had the foresight to make space accommodation for future technological advancements such as elevators, air conditioning, and electrical wiring.

-"Negroes were neutral in the War in Heaven and that is why they were not allowed to hold the Mormon priesthood before
that Māori prophets or chieftains, including Paora Te Potangaroa and Tāwhiao, predicted the coming of Mormon missionaries to New Zealand.

-"Tāwhiao accurately predicted the site of the 1958 Hamilton New Zealand Temple before his death in 1894.

-"A flash of lightning or other divine manifestation protected the body of Joseph Smith from being mutilated by a mob after he had been killed at Carthage Jail.

-"Those who persecuted the early Latter Day Saints and killed Joseph Smith suffered physically and mentally later in their lives, with some meeting gruesome or particularly painful deaths.

-"In 1739, a Roman Catholic monk predicted that within 100 years an angel would be sent by God to restore the lost gospel to the earth and that the true church would be established in 'a valley that lies towards a great lake.'

-"Today's youth were 'generals' in the War in Heaven and that when they return to heaven they will be revered.

-"When speaking to the Latter-day Saints after the death of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young took on the appearance, voice, and mannerisms of Smith and that this was a sign from God that Young was to be Smith's successor.

-"The writings of the early Church Fathers conform better with Mormonism than with modern Christianity.

-"The global flood of Noah constituted the baptism of the Earth.

-"Orson Hyde, an early apostle of the church, was of Jewish ancestry and that for this reason it was he in 1841 that dedicated Palestine for the return of the Jews.

-"Wearing temple garments affords physical protection, and that some wearers have survived car wrecks, floods, and other calamities unscathed thanks to the protective power of the garments.

-"Albert Einstein said that geologist and LDS Church apostle James E. Talmage was the smartest man he had ever met.

-"Officials of the Roman Catholic Church support the LDS Church's efforts to build the Rome Italy Temple and . . . this support was forthcoming because of the church's support of Proposition 8 in California in 2008.

-"Geological feature in Millard County, Utah, known as the 'Great Stone Face,' resembles a profile of Joseph Smith's face.

-" Del Parson's painting, 'Christ in Red Robe,' was produced under the direction of [Mormon] Church General Authorities, who suggested how to make it more accurate, until it was deemed the closest resemblance of Jesus Christ.

-"The 'Great and Abominable Church' described in the Book of Mormon can be identified as the Roman Catholic Church."

("Mormon Folklore," with citations and links, at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_folklore)



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2015 11:14PM by steve benson.

WAIT A MINUTE! The seagulls didn't eat the crickets?!?!?

Well there went MY testimony.

All they do is eat trash now.

No. You heard wrong. It was only the "jack" seagulls that didn't eat the crickets!

Of course they did... because the crows are descendants of the seagulls that refused to eat the crickets. They weren't valient so they were cursed and turned black whereas the seagulls that did eat crickets remained white and delightsome. ...okay, maybe that's going a little far when it comes to mormon folklore....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2015 12:14AM by azsteve.

It may be as close to having a real revelation as Brigham Young ever came! Well, right up to the point that he realized that he had his foul carcass poisoned and that he was going to die.

This mormon myth was being told in the fifties when I was young. It was no more true then than it is now.

If Brigham was so prophetic why didn't he warn Joseph to flee before Carthage like he had often done in the past?

Elevators had long been used for industry and commercial purposes before the temple was planned. This is just another empty faith promoting tale like The Three Nephites.

This silly little claim underscores how monumentally stupid Mormons can be. It's a real conversation stopper to explain that the Romans used ancient elevators to deliver Christians and tigers to the floor of the Coliseum, let alone that modern elevators were starting to be put into place in Europe and the Eastern U.S. at the time of the temple's construction.

If they had such great foresight, they could have put scientifically useful information in the WoW, predicted the end of slavery, and seen the ramifications of effective modern birth control.

...the temple groundbreaking was in 1853; work was stopped by the Utah War until 1858; and the temple wasn't completed until 1892. Meaning, the architects had more than three decades of construction in which to incorporate elevator shafts, electrical chases, and other new technologies.

It's kinda funny how TBMs keep repeating this myth to demonstrate the "inspiration" of 19th-century leaders, in light of this fact:

"During the Utah War, the foundation was buried and the lot made to look like a plowed field to prevent unwanted attention from federal troops. After tensions had eased in 1858 and work on the temple resumed, it was discovered that many of the foundation stones had cracked, making them unsuitable for use. Although not all of the sandstone was replaced, the inadequate sandstone was replaced by quartz monzonite..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_Temple

If those church leaders had truly been "inspired," then maybe God should have told them from the outset that the original foundation stones they used would crack.

Yes, and they would've included phone and ethernet jacks too. :)

Interesting how this Wikipedia piece tries to explain away all the Masonic symbols. Total fiction.

Long before I was ever in the temple, I was on a tour of the Salt Lake Temple grounds with our Sunday School teacher. I pointed out the shaking hands on the outside of the temple and asked what they represented. Our teacher fumbled around so much trying to answer my innocent question, I realized it must be the secret mormon handshake I had heard mummers about. I have never understood why they had it in such plain view.

It's really their exclusive logo for the International House of Handshakes, no matter how they waffle.

"It's really their exclusive logo for the International House of Handshakes, no matter how they waffle."

Omelet that comment alone.

The myth is still out there? In the 21st century? Well, then, here you go. See Amazon and elsewhere:

From Ascending Rooms to Express Elevators: A History of the Passenger Elevator in the 19th Century Hardcover – 2002

by Lee Edward Gray

"This book traces the history of the passenger elevator in the U.S. from circa 1850 to 1900. The book focuses on the history of technological development as well as its impact on office building planning and use patterns, and its social impact and cultural assimilation. As the project unfolded, the author reveals that the development of the elevator was as much a commercial history as it was a technological and architectural history."

BcE

Truthbetold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Had a conversation recently with a TBM and they
> were saying how inspired BY must have been to
> include elevator shafts in the SL Temple. They
> were like "how else would he have known to include
> those?" This was a sign to them that BY was a
> prophet and a testimony that TSCC is really true.
>
>
> I said, well if you want to internet search and
> fact check the history on elevators, you will find
> they already existed before the SL Temple was
> built.


An Elevator Profit!?

That's all we - THE WORLD - need(s)!

A way to get closer to [God] the top, faster, and without having to work out or pay a toll!

Pray and Pay and hope for electricity... safety, and good company, conversation.

What's designed into the "temple" - she doesn't know about - are the tarnished prayers and practices of bumbling bees and cross-spectrum busted romances, built on CTR (covet the righteous), and believe and buy anything (buy BYU yub) everything we peddle, HOOK, LINE AND SINKER.

Mormons have to teach themselves
to be themselves, by not becoming themselves.

Mormons want to teach others. But they can't... What they done know.

One day 'the church' will have to stop relying on the members...

And the members can (wish to) rely on the (bumbling) church.

P.S.> BY was no architect or seer. It just seemed a logical thing for the time (when all sorts of people are giving you money for nothing): a secret, private car to the top... for the married, disabled, sick, old, over 35 or (lazy) crowd.

M@t

Metinks Brigham was elevated on his own petard.