Recently my husband discovered he had relatives who joined the church in Germany and were part of a handcart company that travelled to SLC. The interesting part comes when he finds out that they left and went back to Kansas and dumped the church. The last known date that they were for sure in S.L.C.is 1854, the first known date that they were in the state of Kansas was 1860. There is no evidence of polygamy and they had several children that accompanied them when they left.
My background is born in the covenant and quit around ten years ago. My husband was a convert who is still a tbm. He was so excited to find out that he had Mormon ancestors and so bummed when he found out they left.
He keeps asking me why they would have left the church and why after traveling all that way they would go back to Kansas.
I've tried to tell him about several theories, none make the church look good. So does anybody know of policies or practices or anything that might have been going on that is documented in the church's essays or somewhere else that tells about this time period and what would lead normal people to leave?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2018 11:27AM by minnieme.

I don't have any particular insight into who his mormon ancestors were or why they left, but as a general rule, the less time in a belief system, the easier it is to leave because your 'sunk costs' are less.

You typed "handset"... Does that mean 'handcart'?

It is a general principle among devout mormons that those who survived from these handcart companies to a soul, never left the church. Of course that's hogwash. If one does not have sufficient 'sunk costs' then learning how careless and heedless the leadership was in their case was sufficient to break their bond to that leadership.

And so, back they went to Kansas.

That absolutely makes sense, I've tried to tell him he'll never know why they left the church and tried to explain that leaving the church and staying in salt lake city would be deadly but he doesn't believe that.
And yes my autocorrect, which I'd like to turn off, keeps changing words like handcart.

"The Secret History by John Ahmanson was once a VERY rare book, not even available in English. I got it and read it years ago, after a lot of trouble through the ILL system.

You can now buy an English translation of this book for three dollars on Amazon.

It is an eyewitness account by someone who made the journey, decided he didn't want any part of this craziness and was able to leave for middle America like your husband's ancestor.

It is worth reading, but for me the author did not talk enough about what he definitelly explerienced (the handcart ordeal) and had too much to say about events he wasn't present for (the MMM) and could only have copied from other sources.

A great many handcart survivors defected for obvious reasons. They had been betrayed big time by BY. It is amazing that they were able to leave Reformation Utah with their lives.

I would recommend you get the book and see if it sheds any light on your question.

Three bucks -- it's worth a try.

I'll give it a shot. I've bought several books on Mormon history, hoping to find evidence of the crazy that B.Y. brought about at that time and have found fascinating information and learned enough to wonder about my ancestors sanity. But, nothing from Mormon essays exactly.

Now that I think of it David Robert's book "Devil's Gate" gives an excellent, scholarly readable account of the handcart fiasco.

I believe he goes into detail about the subsequent lives of some of the survivors. There were a LOT of defectors who couldn't get out of there fast enough.

Two of my own ancestors, defected, but stayed in SLC and opened a saloon. Go figure.

Another ancestor, whose only son froze to death on the trail, and who came as close to death due to hunger and exposure as a person can come became the truest believer in all things Mormon you will ever encounter.

Go figure.

I guess he had lost too much and invested too much to back out.

I think David Roberts' book is the best go-to book on the handcart fiasco.

David Roberts, BTW, is NOT a Mormon, but he this is not an anti Mormon book. It is a scholarly account of a hideous trek that didn't have to happen.

"He keeps asking me why they would have left the church and why after traveling all that way they would go back to Kansas."

Maybe Briggy tried to sleep with the wife?

I wondered about that. Maybe not brigham but couldn't he have been pressed to take another wife? And I believe at that time brig was also more of a dictator than a spiritual leader. That couldn't have been fun.

Brigham was a tyrant. I think a lot of people left the church in the early days after they figured out Joe and BY were in it for the power,the money and the women. Only the gullible remained.

Have you are your DH read the (anti) definitive account of the handcart companies, by Will Bagley?

https://user.xmission.com/~research/central/handcart.pdfhttps://user.xmission.com/~research/central/handcart.pdf

I keep getting an error message. Do I need to have an account and login?

No, it was my error. I hit control v twice. Try this:'

https://user.xmission.com/~research/central/handcart.pdf

That worked and is very interesting.

You could also read "Wife #19" by Ann Eliza Young. Very good read. She tells of her childhood and the handcart trex and her life in early SLC. Her marriage to BY and polygamy. Her book involves the years you mentioned. The

Thanks I saw that book but hadn't looked at the synopsis.

I'll toss this into the ring.

Many Europeans did not know the full extent of Mormon teachings including polygamy. In fact many were told polygamy was a vicious lie.

Second. Many Europeans were dirt poor in Europe with no prospect of a better life. The Mormons were offering aid getting to America and free land.

I'd love to believe that he was using the church, but why go all the way to Utah? Why not stop somewhere along the way? I think it more likely they didn't know everything that would be expected of them. In addition during the time they left, apparently, according to the link shared by elder dog, there were a few years of famine caused by grasshoppers(not just one season). I think it likely they left to survive and probably had enough of stupid decisions.

> I think it likely they left to survive and
> probably had enough of stupid decisions.


There ya go! They were smarter than the average mormon!

They probably went to Utah because that is where the free land was and this is just speculation, they probably came with others from Germany thinking they'd settle together as a community.

Between 1854 and 1860 polygamy came out in the open, and Mountain Meadows Massacre happened. Either of those would be more than sufficient reason to get out of town.

Good Lord, that was a busy time then. I would extra proud to have relatives that got a clue and left.

I believe there were people who turned sour on the religion after joining.

Think of going to a denomination today for any length of time. After a while, either you leave or stay for any number of reasons. One primary reason to stay is finding a sense of community. Another is what they're teaching and preaching either rings "true" or "false."

The big flags for me was the false teachings whether that was Mormonism or other places my children and I ended up.

I stuck to the bible as my guide, and let the denominations stand or fall on the strength of that word.

When it comes to our ancestors, some of them probably did things in a similar systematic way (I hope they did anyway.) One of my great great Mormon grandmothers left TSCC after her husband died. She became a Baptist instead. They crossed the plains together as husband and wife to Utah. Eventually migrating to New Mexico. She must've had her fill of the religion, but stayed near her TBM children (in Wyoming,) until she died. Active Baptist in a Mormon pioneer community.

Another ancestor joined the church in Wales, and moved to Utah around 1860'sh. He married twice. Both wives were daughters of polygamists, but he wasn't one. His first wife died shortly after giving birth to her 9th or 10th child. She was my ancestor. He remarried and had ten more children with wife #2. By the end of his life he'd left the church, but stayed in his Mormon pioneer community in Utah. He had a falling out with the church. There is no oral or written history as to what it is. The Mormon genealogists in our family haven't disclosed that. My inactive Mormon family told me this (a cousin who was actively engaged in genealogy until she died,) knew that he'd left TSCC by the end of his life because he had soured on it.

Think of those early splinter groups that left Joseph Smith and formed their own denominations. Brigham Young took the largest group with him because he was power hungry and able to organize better than the others did. The early saints went in several directions during and after Joseph Smith's death.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2018 01:57PM by Amyjo.

I can only imagine how hard it would be to have your own opinion in that situation though, in the middle of it all. With a prophet leading with an iron fist. I don't think you could just leave the church without getting away from Mormon settlements. I hope that means that he wasn't part of the herd and was able to think for himself. That would be nice.

He probably was. And may have thought Kansas looked a lot more enticing or promising than striking out into unsettled frontier. The religion itself would be a turnoff unless he was deep into its doodoo.

"Tell It All" by Fanny Stenhouse. This book will probably shed some light on why they bailed. The pdf is available free online. It is over 600 pages and I couldn't put it down. Fanny tells her story of converting as a girl in England or France, I can't remember which, marrying and coming to Utah. She lived in in SLC and knew most of the leading personalities including BY and most if not all of his wives. She tells of the trials she and other women suffered under polygamy. Fanny explains how she lost her testimony in the church and helped her husband to see his way out of it as well. Great read!

LOL they weren't stupid.

Most likely, once they saw how this "church" worked in reality they realized that they'd better leave.

Smart people.

This one is titled "The Truth about Trek" (Trek is an LDS "activity" where young people are encouraged to re-enact Brigham Young's hellish experiment; my own daughter was even suckered into that one when some in her mother's ward tried to draw her into the church).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou47dupzoys&t=2242s

"In truth, there weren't two handcart disasters; there were eleven."

"What caused almost 300 people to freeze to death on their way to Utah in 1856?"

They would do missionary work in Europe and sell the idea of adventure, land and opportunity out in Utah. They would often flat-out deny those "awful rumors" about polygamy.

Then the converts would arrive and find out that the rumors were true.

1854 was the time of the "reformation" in Utah under Brigham Young. That's when real blood atonement killings occurred. Brigham Young was establishing a theocracy at the point of a gun or a knife, you choose.

Sounds like your husbands ancestors had seen enough and took the first opportunity to get out of there. The probably saw that they had been lied to by the leaders, saw that it was not an inspired or deeply spiritual organization and had enough intelligence to go when the getting was good...to find some land and opportunity that wasn't 100% controlled by Brigham Young's organized crime syndicate.

Your husband should be proud of them.

minnieme Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Recently my husband discovered he had relatives
> who joined the church in Germany and were part of
> a handcart company that travelled to SLC. The
> interesting part comes when he finds out that they
> left and went back to Kansas and dumped the
> church. The last known date that they were for
> sure in S.L.C.is 1854, the first known date that
> they were in the state of Kansas was 1860. There
> is no evidence of polygamy and they had several
> children that accompanied them when they left.
> My background is born in the covenant and quit
> around ten years ago. My husband was a convert who
> is still a tbm. He was so excited to find out that
> he had Mormon ancestors and so bummed when he
> found out they left.
> He keeps asking me why they would have left the
> church and why after traveling all that way they
> would go back to Kansas.
> I've tried to tell him about several theories,
> none make the church look good. So does anybody
> know of policies or practices or anything that
> might have been going on that is documented in the
> church's essays or somewhere else that tells
> about this time period and what would lead normal
> people to leave?
My favorite is B.H.Robert"s six volume "A Comprehensive History of the Church" of which I have the 1965 edition.

Former members left the 'church' when they KNEW it was [wasn't] right.

The more your DH learns true LDS, and Utah in those times, and his family's history, and reads this post, and uses his imagination/ reason, the more he'll appreciate the realities of the time, and probably his family. He too will then be proud.

It'd be a badge of honor for me.
I'd be rather proud to have a realistic, pragmatic, thinking relative, rather than one that followed nobody, to the ends of nowhere - and everywhere - for nothing.

M@t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2018 09:31PM by moremany.

A good place to begin an understanding of the handcart fiasco is Fannie Stenhouses book Mormonism Unveiled. Fannie converted in England moved to Italy as mission president wife (or assistant?). Then came to Salt Lake. Brigham had a revelation and approached her father to design the special wagons that were enormous, And so Mr. Stenhouse worked on that for 6 months and made a complete monstrosity that fell apart.

So next Brigham had another revelation of light weight carts that women or little children could push through the mountains by themselves.

But what has been mainly forgotten is that pioneer Salt Lake City was run like a dictatorship. It was like North Korea... seriously!

You're liable to have a fruitless search. Fanny Stenhouse's book was "Tell It All: A Woman's Life in Polygamy." This link is to a reprint available on Amazon; I have one of the Tanners' photostats that was considerably less. I consider it a first-rate account of life in Utah in the middle of the 19th Century.

https://www.amazon.com/Tell-All-Womans-Life-Polygamy/dp/1162578297

Eber D. Howe wrote "Mormonism Unvailed" in 1834.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_Unvailed

And then there's "Mormonism Unveiled," which is a biography of John D. Lee, Brigham Young's "adopted son" who was executed for his role in the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_Unveiled

Also if you know your ancestors name you can search for the pioneer histories of the overland trail. Each company is well documented. Mine came acquainted with Mormonism in 1839 and set sale from Liverpool in 1843 (some of the first converts in Britain) and were robbed by pirates in New Orleans (held hostage for a week on ship by the bandates) then were finally allowed entry into America and came up the Mississippi on a steamer to Nauvoo.


https://history.lds.org/overlandtravel/companies