"Years later, one non-Mormon neighbor summed up views of Smith and his family by their Palmyra neighbors by saying, "To tell the truth, there was something about him they could not understand; some way he knew more than they did, and it made them mad."[69] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_of_Joseph_Smith

Kinda like those Mormons who think they are more tuned into the spirit than you. Or they think they have special knowledge of "spiritual things" that you don't have. Or their personal revelation is keener than yours.

Oh, the "Ah shucks..." routine Mormons would have people believe. Smith knew where there were "golden plates" buried and he knew all sorts of religious stuff and was a "seer" who could see things you couldn't...

Sheesh. And I had to be born of this kind of "goodly" family line. Not directly related to Smith but related and directly related to Young. Ignorance has been highly rated in my family when it comes to "seeing" stuff I can't see like how great the ignorant farm boy's church is.

the notion that they push elsewhere when they try to claim that the Book of Mormon is a miracle because producing such a book was beyond the abilities of an illiterate, uneducated "farm boy" such as Joseph Smith.

In the First Vision story, we learn that he is a young teen-ager who spends his time reading and pondering passages in the King James Version of the Bible. That would probably mean that he was reading and comprehending literature at a higher level than the typical schoolboy of a similar age today.

The story goes on to say that he found the following passage particularly relevant to his situation (at 14 years old):

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

More specifically, the official First Vision story states the following, in Joseph Smith's own words:

"While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

Nothing in the story suggests that the Bible just suddenly flew off a shelf and hit the illiterate, ignorant farm boy on the head so hard that he was temporarily able to read just one passage from the Bible. Instead, the story clearly implies that he was routinely in the habit of reading and on one particular day when he was reading the "Epistle of James" he felt greatly impressed by it's message. No indication that he was struggling to sound out the words or had to ask someone what the words meant.

Of course he was not a scholar at Harvard. But there's no indication that he was too illiterate, ignorant or uneducated to pull off they type of story-telling, plagiarism and cut-and-paste work that was needed to cobble together a book like the Book of Mormon.

Being a poor family the Bible might have been one of just a few books they had on hand to read so that is what they read. I thought I read there were writings by his mother (possibly her journal or somesuch) that indicate he like to make up stories, sometimes with a biblical bent, and regale the family with them. He might have been a storytelling savant much like there are kids who are musical savants who can play music by ear and even compose complex pieces at a young age, and if the Bible was his main book for reading I can see how his stories might mimic the King James writing style.

were, in fact, school teachers.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,419908

The area around Palmyra had a wealth of reading material.

I worked with a person from the Palmyra area and whose family had been there for generations. The people in that area still hold the Smith family in low esteem.

Mormons - some "leaders" included - might used to have been better people [than they are today], more - or less - naive, searching, lost, confused, followers of someone or something they think is more enlightened, charismatic, talkative, bigger, better, or closer to God than themselves.

People won't have that connection (with reality, God, themselves) because they allow tscc to stand in their way.

M@t

Joseph's own mother related that Joseph from a young age often entertained the family with stories of the native inhabitants to include their religion, agriculture, manner of dress, warfare and architecture.

Mother Smith further includes seven "visions" of Father Smith that oddly mirror the iron rod and tree of life dreams in first Nephi.

Joseph also spent time in Salem as a young boy. I am sure he heard many storiesof witchcraft, treasure hunting and pirates to include Captain Kidd traveling to the city of Moroni in the Cumorah islands. I'd wager he also heard of the USS Turtle, the first submarine used by the US in the revolutionary war. Oddly enough often described as two shells held together with bands and tight as a drum. It had a hole in the bottom for ballast and was lit by firefox lichen a type of glowing plant.

There is also a lot of plagiarized parts of the book. Mainlythe bible but also many other books.

Further Joseph went back each year for several years before getting the plates. Mormons overlook these years and assume the writing only would take place once the plates were retrived.

Heartless Wrote:
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> Joseph also spent time in Salem as a young boy. I
> am sure he heard many stories of witchcraft,

"Around 1820 Smith is said to have experienced a theophany, now known as his First Vision among adherents." Wikipedia.

I suspect that Joe's sojourn in Salem may have got him in line for, not a theophany, but a bloody diablophany!

We recall the stuff he describes about falling down in the grove, and all that darkness, unable to move, tongue cleaving and such.

Sound like a diablophany to me.

> ... plagiarized parts... mainly the bible, but also many other books.

Further Joseph went back each year for several years before getting the plates. Mormons overlook these years and assume the writing only would take place once the plates were retrieved. >

BINGO -

What REALLY happened in Joey's earlier years?
And how did it all REALLY came together?????

As opposed to how it is being taught/ sold/ preached today!

M@t

P.S> - to add (I'd forgotten this part) lol - so true-G

Joseph also spent time in Salem as a young boy. I am sure he heard many stories of witchcraft, treasure hunting and pirates to include Captain Kidd traveling to the city of Moroni in the Cumorah islands. I'd wager he also heard of the USS Turtle, the first submarine used by the US in the revolutionary war. Oddly enough often described as two shells held together with bands and tight as a drum. It had a hole in the bottom for ballast and was lit by firefox lichen a type of glowing plant.

ROTFL - rolling on the Firefox lichen

[Oops, I just got out of a presentation on North American Alpine plants) K



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2018 12:23AM by moremany.

Elder Berry Wrote:
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> Not directly related to
> Smith but related and directly related to Young.

My grandfather's grandfather was Lorenzo Dow, Brigham's only younger brother. How are you related?

Anziano Young Wrote:
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> My grandfather's grandfather was Lorenzo Dow,
> Brigham's only younger brother. How are you
> related?

Zina Huntington -> Zina Young( https://history.lds.org/article/zina-young-card-biography?lang=eng ) -> Zina Card -> Zola Brown -> Richard Hodson (Rulon Jeffs Jr. until 18) -> Me

"Zina bought the house with the expectation of moving her mother and her aunt, Prescindia, into it, and with them raising Sterling and working in the temple for the rest of their days."

I never would have existed if Zina Young had made good on her resolve.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2018 11:59AM by Elder Berry.

“some way he knew more than they did, and it made them mad."

Like Cliff from “Cheers”.

Smith has been credited as a 'religious genius' by many of his critics and historians.

I'm not so sure I'm willing to go that far in giving him that much credit. But he did manage to pull off a mighty big caper at that.

I think Rigdon was the one who thought with the brain under his hat.