Both in and outside of Mormonism, have you found yourself in circumstances that you were hard pressed to explain for rational explanations as events unfolded?

Due to prayers or intercessory prayers on your behalf or for another?

Dreams and mystical occurrences were a large part of my Mormon pioneer family history.

Always was associated with the Mormon side of family. But some form of mysticism is found in many religions, not only Mormonism.

Such as: healing prayers; divine intercession or intervention or simply clear signs in answer to prayers and messages from our heavenly father or his ministering angels.

I've had these experiences both inside and outside of Mormonism. As a Mormon I used to believe they were because I was LDS. Now when I've received them I realize they continued beyond my life as a Mormon. That there are forces beyond our control that assist and guide us in life. Without taking away our free will, are they there possibly as a form of spiritual guidance?

So just sharing, to see who if any here has had mystical happenings that may have let you know you're not alone?

Mormonism does seem more heavily influenced by mysticism than other more traditional forms of religion... so just wondering if or how that shaped your thinking as a Mormon, and now post-Mormon?

Thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2015 11:27PM by amyjomeg.

Hey amyjomeg,

I had a few mystical dreams while I was in TSCC. The one that most stood out to me was one where my friend who died talked to me. Now that I've left TSCC, I feel that I don't really have any explanation for my dreams. They could actually be spiritual, or it could be something that my brain created to make me feel better. Whatever it is, I just accept it at face value. I had a dream about my dead friend, and it was nice, and it made me feel better, but I'm not going to dig into the meaning or symbolism of it. If it made me feel better, then I can accept that whether spiritual or my brain, that was why I had it, and I can move on.

Thanks for sharing.

Guess things like dreams by their nature, can be open to interpretation. But to the holder of them, when they're your dreams then on a most personal level - that sometimes anyway, I believe we are in touch with something beyond in the divine realm that communes with us through dreams.

My grandmother used to dream of each of her children before they were born. A little man appeared to her and showed her who her children were going to be, through each of nine pregnancies.

That grandmother was very spiritual for all her life. She didn't ask for these kinds of signs, but they occurred.

I don't dig either when I've had such experiences. Because I don't want to voluntarily take myself into a realm of mysticism like some do who try to commune with the dead.

But like you, don't deny that something has happened when it does. Just accept it at face value, if it has special meaning give thanks, and move on. :)

I live near Lily Dale in upstate New York. It is an entire town of mediums! That in itself keeps me away from there lol, out of fear more than skepticism. :)

Went to visit once with one of my children just to walk through the village. Very quaint and serene in an old fashioned way. Paying a medium there for a reading was extremely pricey, so I just enjoyed the visit without a reading. I would've been frightened, honestly, at what they might have shared with me as although I don't doubt they have some kind of thing going on, I'm not sure it's with good spirits or bad ones.

Lily Dale has been around since the 1800's. So when Joseph Smith was starting out in his fledgling career, he lived near to places where mysticism was quite popular, and no doubt was caught up in some of it.

I get about 5-10 messages per month through dreams ---- during the last 3 months. I didn't receive anything earth shaking but advice and some were very comforting.

I had a lot of crazy dreams until I prayed (to God) that I only remember dreams that had a message for me.

The problem with remembering crazy dreams cleared up immediately.

Just be careful. There are both good and evil spirits out there. I believe that mediums are not speaking to the dead, but rather demons pretending to be a dead person, so they can lead people astray. That is why the Bible teaches not to try to communicate with the dead. There is a very real spiritual world all around us. Use the wisdom God has instilled in you to know the difference between good and evil. God does still give visions, the best way to know if it is from God is to determine if it lines up with what He has said in the Bible.

Interested Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just be careful. There are both good and evil
> spirits out there. I believe that mediums are not
> speaking to the dead, but rather demons pretending
> to be a dead person, so they can lead people
> astray. That is why the Bible teaches not to try
> to communicate with the dead. There is a very
> real spiritual world all around us. Use the
> wisdom God has instilled in you to know the
> difference between good and evil. God does still
> give visions, the best way to know if it is from
> God is to determine if it lines up with what He
> has said in the Bible.
________________________________

Thank you for sharing that. I agree.

Only once growing up did I ever play with the ouija board. It scared me and my friends so bad I refused to ever play it again. It was scary how much information the ouija had on all of us, and used it in a demonic way against us who were there. None of its 'prophecies' came true. But everything about our past was.

Inspiration coming from goodly sources on other hand, is worlds apart.

Discerning between good and evil is so vitally important.

Thanks again.

The problem is that of technology in the wrong hands. It's the same reason we don't allow 10-year-olds to drive cars.

Medium work should only be done by those with a genuine gift. Mormonism rejects the notion of that gift: If you work as a medium, you'll be excommunicated.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem is that of technology in the wrong
> hands. It's the same reason we don't allow
> 10-year-olds to drive cars.
>
> Medium work should only be done by those with a
> genuine gift. Mormonism rejects the notion of that
> gift: If you work as a medium, you'll be
> excommunicated.

___________________________

That's an interesting dichotomy. It's okay for priesthood authorities to tell us they've had "revelations" for our lives, and we should be predisposed to following their guidance for our spiritual and mortal wellbeing.

And yet... to be a medium is grounds for excommunication. Now that doesn't even begin to distinguish between authentic mediums, and quack priesthood holders. Oh me, oh my!

I've moved house a lot (I rent) and before one move to a place slightly above my price range I was worried I had made an incorrect, if not downright hasty decision. When I collected the keys they had all 3 of my initials engraved on them - I didn't use my middle name so there was no way of the landlord knowing and engraving the keys. I met my husband 2 years later whilst living there.

I also had a perplexing dream in that flat - I dreamed of an elderly couple who I assumed to be my grandparents because of the familiarity the woman treated me with, but I did not recognise her husband as he was not like pictures of my grandfather. The first time I visited my then b/f's mum, a picture of his father showed the man from my dream. I didn't say a thing about that for months.

I have had lots of 'unexplained coincidences' and images/feelings from dreams being realised during the course of my adult life. I think it happens to most people - religious and non-religious alike - but we mostly dismiss it, unless we are looking for some sort of confirmation bias, or we are especially inclined to remember these occurrences.

anonuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've moved house a lot (I rent) and before one
> move to a place slightly above my price range I
> was worried I had made an incorrect, if not
> downright hasty decision. When I collected the
> keys they had all 3 of my initials engraved on
> them - I didn't use my middle name so there was no
> way of the landlord knowing and engraving the
> keys. I met my husband 2 years later whilst
> living there.
>
> I also had a perplexing dream in that flat - I
> dreamed of an elderly couple who I assumed to be
> my grandparents because of the familiarity the
> woman treated me with, but I did not recognise her
> husband as he was not like pictures of my
> grandfather. The first time I visited my then
> b/f's mum, a picture of his father showed the man
> from my dream. I didn't say a thing about that
> for months.
>
> I have had lots of 'unexplained coincidences' and
> images/feelings from dreams being realised during
> the course of my adult life. I think it happens
> to most people - religious and non-religious alike
> - but we mostly dismiss it, unless we are looking
> for some sort of confirmation bias, or we are
> especially inclined to remember these occurrences.
_________________________________________

Thanks for sharing. Dreams are a way of communing with the unseen world, through our subconscious minds - on a deeper level than our waking thoughts allow for.

When I first left Mormonism I wondered whether my dreams and angelic intercessors would cease for me. But they continued on about the same sporadic occurrences as they did before when I was LDS. I've tried to stay close to the Lord despite my leaving LDS behind. I still pray, and search the bible for my answers, and seek out spiritual guidance from those whom I trust their insights to.

But at the end of the day I've learned to rely on my own higher power as well, to help me find the answers to some of life's most perplexing questions. I thank God for giving me a sound mind and ability to discern things of a spiritual nature. It was the same discernment that guided me out of Mormonism, but didn't let me throw the "baby out with the bathwater" when I left it behind! ;-)

amyjomeg Wrote:


Dreams are a way of communing
> with the unseen world, through our subconscious
> minds - on a deeper level than our waking thoughts
> allow for.
>

I quite like carl Jung's theory of the collective subconscious in this respect

Been there done that!!!! I still get a little skeptical when I don't have 'spiritual experiences' so I still ask for more experiences to keep my faith! I have only been studying this stuff for about a year and have learned a lot about God and this life ------ we will see what the future holds!

I am more than a believer. I have had hundreds of psychic medium experiences. Seeing the future, healing, premonitions, communicating with spirits in the spirit world (after life), voices warning me of danger and voices aiding me with problems.

Sorry but I have NEVER encountered anything evil or bad spirits ----- I think that is total myth to scare Christians/other religious and others and keep them from the truth (about the after life, reincarnation, eternal life, etc.)!

There are plenty of books in the library or on the net about psychics, mediumship, etc. Make sure if you get a book it includes 'exercises' to test your abilities. There are also meditations on line to get a glimpse of past lives and contact people in the after life. I suggest you learn how to meditate if you are serious about getting into this. We all have abilities but they must be exercised like any other muscle!

Good luck ---- don't let the critics scare you!

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been there done that!!!! I still get a little
> skeptical when I don't have 'spiritual
> experiences' so I still ask for more experiences
> to keep my faith! I have only been studying this
> stuff for about a year and have learned a lot
> about God and this life ------ we will see what
> the future holds!
>
> I am more than a believer. I have had hundreds of
> psychic medium experiences. Seeing the future,
> healing, premonitions, communicating with spirits
> in the spirit world (after life), voices warning
> me of danger and voices aiding me with problems.
>
> Sorry but I have NEVER encountered anything evil
> or bad spirits ----- I think that is total myth
> to scare Christians/other religious and others and
> keep them from the truth (about the after life,
> reincarnation, eternal life, etc.)!
>
> There are plenty of books in the library or on the
> net about psychics, mediumship, etc. Make sure if
> you get a book it includes 'exercises' to test
> your abilities. There are also meditations on
> line to get a glimpse of past lives and contact
> people in the after life. I suggest you learn how
> to meditate if you are serious about getting into
> this. We all have abilities but they must be
> exercised like any other muscle!
>
> Good luck ---- don't let the critics scare you!

______________________________________

It sounds as though you may have a gift for psychic awareness! You should nurture it, we need real and authentic psychics who know what they're doing and do it responsibly. :)

I haven't nurtured my fledgling abilities. When things have happened, I didn't seek them out. They were spontaneous. I admire anyone who has this gift, because it's a rare quality not found in most people. Although we all probably have some psychic awareness, just most of us don't recognize it or nurture it.

There's even a church near where I live that is just this: a spiritual church. It focuses on mediumship and psychic awareness in its worship and faith exercises. It isn't too far from Lily Dale, in fact. But I'm not sure how many or whether Lily Dale has members that attend there.

Lily Dale's psychics are each highly skilled at what they do. They aren't like a fortune teller per se. They're very professional and cannot live at Lily Dale unless they're approved.

Mediums and psychics visit there from all over the world, and visitors to see it for themselves. It's a national attraction. I love upstate New York, there's no other place like it.

:)

Some of my experiences come automatically as my spirit guide keeps reassuring me 'he has my back' ---- and he has proved that a number of times.

However, If I want to know what is going to be on the news or what unique car/things I will see on my way to XXXX ----- I definitely need to ask. Sometimes I ask and get very general information and sometimes specific ---- I would like to control it more and wouldn't mind helping others but I am just not there yet.

Everything I have used works better when I invoke the name 'God' in my meditation/prayers.

amyjomeg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Both in and outside of Mormonism, have you found
> yourself in circumstances that you were hard
> pressed to explain for rational explanations as
> events unfolded?

Nope. And if I ever were, "I don't know" is honest and correct, while "mysticism and occult" is a ridiculous assumption without any supporting evidence, and an argument from ignorance.

> Dreams and mystical occurrences were a large part
> of my Mormon pioneer family history.

Well, dreams were -- they ignorant thought they "meant" something. "Mystical occurrences" -- not so much. That's largely just people assuming "mystical" when there's no reason to.

> Such as: healing prayers; divine intercession or
> intervention or simply clear signs in answer to
> prayers and messages from our heavenly father or
> his ministering angels.

None of which has a shred of supporting evidence of any kind.

> I've had these experiences both inside and outside
> of Mormonism.

Believing your "experiences" are of a supernatural nature is not the same as *having* supernatural experiences.


> Without taking
> away our free will, are they there possibly as a
> form of spiritual guidance?

Possibly? Sure. Is there any evidence that's what they ARE? Nope. So it's a bit silly to make that assumption.

> So just sharing, to see who if any here has had
> mystical happenings that may have let you know
> you're not alone?

These things don't result in knowledge, they result in belief. Those two things aren't the same.

amyjomeg Wrote: Dreams...were a large part of my Mormon pioneer family history.

ificouldhietokolob replied: ...dreams were -- they ignorant thought they "meant" something.


Hey ifi. I'm intrigued and maybe a little confused about your reply to amyjomeg.

Are you saying it is "ignorant" to think one's dreams "mean" something?

Are you saying amyjomeg's past relatives' dreams did not "mean" something?

Are you saying that only ignorant people think dreams "mean" something?

Are you saying, finally, that dreams do not "mean" something?


I remember an exchange we had where you insisted on the idea that only you can say what is beautiful to you. Wouldn't the same apply to people and their dreams, that only the dreamer can say if their dreams mean something or not?

If you are saying that dreams per se are meaningless, and only people ignorant of this fact think differently, could you provide evidence for this, especially evidence that says that *my* dreams are meaningless?

Thanks,

Human

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> amyjomeg Wrote: Dreams...were a large part of my
> Mormon pioneer family history.
>
> ificouldhietokolob replied: ...dreams were -- they
> ignorant thought they "meant" something.
>
>
> Hey ifi. I'm intrigued and maybe a little
> confused about your reply to amyjomeg.
>
> Are you saying it is "ignorant" to think one's
> dreams "mean" something?
>
> Are you saying amyjomeg's past relatives' dreams
> did not "mean" something?
>
> Are you saying that only ignorant people think
> dreams "mean" something?
>
> Are you saying, finally, that dreams do not "mean"
> something?
>
>
> I remember an exchange we had where you insisted
> on the idea that only you can say what is
> beautiful to you. Wouldn't the same apply to
> people and their dreams, that only the dreamer can
> say if their dreams mean something or not?
>
> If you are saying that dreams per se are
> meaningless, and only people ignorant of this fact
> think differently, could you provide evidence for
> this, especially evidence that says that *my*
> dreams are meaningless?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Human
________________

Thanking you for an excellent response. :)

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey ifi. I'm intrigued and maybe a little
> confused about your reply to amyjomeg.
>
> Are you saying it is "ignorant" to think one's
> dreams "mean" something?

Assuming that they're "mystical" or some kind of "spirit communication" is an argument from ignorance, yes. That doesn't of course require they not "mean something" to the person that has them.

> Are you saying amyjomeg's past relatives' dreams
> did not "mean" something?

As above, they may "mean something" to the person that has them, but assuming they're some kind of mystical, spiritual communication or foretelling of the future is unsupportable.

> Are you saying that only ignorant people think
> dreams "mean" something?

While that generally IS the case -- no, that's not what I said or implied.

> Are you saying, finally, that dreams do not "mean"
> something?

Subjectively? Nope. See above.
"Meaning" isn't objective.

No I haven't. Being an Atheist means I don't believe in

supernatural ANYTHING, not dreams, not ghosts, not

spiritual guidance, not god, not jesus, not strange

sightings in outer space or portraits of jesus on my

toast or the virgin mary weeping on a screen door in

texas or your cat telling you in dreams that 7 is your

lucky number.

I'm all grown up. I don't believe in fairytales or bull

shit. Life has enough drama without making it up.

Good for you.

I was taught to ransack my dreams for any images that would seem to support the Mormon conceit. The church wants a piece of every part of us.

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was taught to ransack my dreams for any images
> that would seem to support the Mormon conceit. The
> church wants a piece of every part of us.

_____________________

I've had dreams on many things, but mormonism maybe only a handful of times ie., at church type dreams - usually a nightmare where I get lost running through the building trying to find myself kind of dream lol. There, that should say volumes!

:P

in which I could never find the exit door.

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in which I could never find the exit door.


____________________

This was a theme in at least a couple of mine. Going through rooms, hallways, stages (attached to the gymnasium,) going out one door to outside, only to be ushered in through another inside again. Even going in to the chapel to sit down for a sacrament meeting exchange, then wondering what the hell was I doing in there?

No enlightenment occurred. Just some form of musical chairs taking place. There could be choirs sitting behind podium. I've seen stake conferences held at high school auditoriums in dreams. But then as a child that is where our stake conferences were held. So that again was a carryover from actual events affecting no less the very fibers of my sub-conscious.

Kind of mirrored real life. But they were goofy dreams, I do admit. Haven't had any lately, like say in a few years. However, now that I've found this site, (or did it find me?) I wonder if they'll start up again? Like Deja Vu? God, let's hope not!

I've had some spooky, preternatural (I don't care for the term supernatural)experiences that could be explained and I'm comfortable with that. It doesn't make them any less odd or bizarre, but knowing there's a reasonable explanation is actually comforting.

I think most psychics and mediums are full of it and either con artists or delusional. I've been to several in my younger years, when I was still pagan, and only one had any sort of accuracy. No doubt there are people with intuitive gifts, though.

Tarot and other fortune cards are a fun party trick and offer some insight, but I doubt there's really anything magickal about them (I have several decks, used to read them for people and was damn good at it, too.)

When it comes to the dream interp, I think there's something to it, especially if you have vivid, intense dreams. Your subconscious stores away information and then presents it to you later in the night to work out issues and problems. That's my own personal opinion, though, and it might not apply to all or most people.

I know this is a Biblical reference, but something a Buddhist told me one night at work almost 2 decades ago, "When I was a child, I played with childish things, but when I grew, I put them away as I had no need for them" stuck with me. I love those cards and my dream books and still enjoy the mystical, pagan aspects of the seasons, but much the same way a non-Xtians enjoy Xmas and Easter.

Itzpapalotl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've had some spooky, preternatural (I don't care
> for the term supernatural)experiences that could
> be explained and I'm comfortable with that. It
> doesn't make them any less odd or bizarre, but
> knowing there's a reasonable explanation is
> actually comforting.
>
> I think most psychics and mediums are full of it
> and either con artists or delusional. I've been to
> several in my younger years, when I was still
> pagan, and only one had any sort of accuracy. No
> doubt there are people with intuitive gifts,
> though.
>
> Tarot and other fortune cards are a fun party
> trick and offer some insight, but I doubt there's
> really anything magickal about them (I have
> several decks, used to read them for people and
> was damn good at it, too.)
>
> When it comes to the dream interp, I think there's
> something to it, especially if you have vivid,
> intense dreams. Your subconscious stores away
> information and then presents it to you later in
> the night to work out issues and problems. That's
> my own personal opinion, though, and it might not
> apply to all or most people.
>
> I know this is a Biblical reference, but something
> a Buddhist told me one night at work almost 2
> decades ago, "When I was a child, I played with
> childish things, but when I grew, I put them away
> as I had no need for them" stuck with me. I love
> those cards and my dream books and still enjoy the
> mystical, pagan aspects of the seasons, but much
> the same way a non-Xtians enjoy Xmas and Easter.

___________________________________

Thanks, your logic makes sense.

Most dreams I believe fall into the realm of the subconscious.

But then I've had warning dreams in real life to prepare me for something that's about to happen, and then it does in days or weeks following the dream.

Some such of these dreams there was no way I could've known in advance what was happening - say I hadn't yet met the person I dreamt about - but it happened soon after.

Or an event, such as a death of a loved one, that was unforeseen and unexpected was dreamt several weeks before it happened. Weird stuff like that.

And other warning dreams, but always to do with my family, not say world events.

Although I have had dreams of being at war, on the ground, with rockets falling and warplanes going overhead - and ground troops invading. Those have been rare, but a couple of them were in faraway places I've never been to.

Also have had dreams of living in other times, like an ancient place with a circular house that had a dome for a roof. And dreams of living in say the 1940's, but I wasn't actually born until late 50's. They can be so vivid, dreams, sometimes more real because of all the senses that are heightened, than waking.

I have entertained the idea of previous lives. That we may be born again to learn life lessons we haven't learned from past lives.

I believe in psychics and mediums. I've experienced receiving messages for other people. I've given them evidence (that they considered sufficient proof) from a loved one who had died. I don't know how it works. I am a huge skeptic and when someone confirms that the evidence I've given is accurate, I'm totally amazed. But it's happened enough times now that I know it's not coincidence.

My problem is that after learning the truth about Mormonism, I stopped taking other people's word about anything. I was gullible for almost 35 years, and don't want to be gullible anymore. I've been told time and again that part of my "gift" is to be a healer. But, I want PROOF, which I haven't received, so I continue to be doubtful.

I live relatively close to Cassadaga which is an off-shoot of Lily Dale. It's fascinating to see all the things there. And, although I like learning about all of this "woo-woo" stuff, I don't necessarily accept it all hook, line and sinker.

As for dreams, I've had some interesting dreams lately, but will start a new thread for that.