Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I know no one here knows me, sometimes I wonder if I know myself. lol
Quick back story. I'm an almost 30 year old guy who had been struggling for almost a decade with my sexuality. I've come to terms, and become quite happy, with being an openly out gay man. My family joined the LDS church when I was young, we stayed for about a year, then backed out and started going to a pentecostal church.
I later joined the youth group, became close with the youth pastors, but three years later - everything changed. See, I had a friend who was also in this youth group, he was gay. One of the church members saw him walking down the street holding hands with his boyfriend and narked on him to the youth pastors.
Not only did they kick him out of the youth group, but then they gave a public chastising in front of the whole youth group. He was no longer a person, he became a debased object, just short of being called a F**. As you can imagine, it tore me up. It was like I had been hit in the knees with a baseball bat and was brought to my knees.
I became suicidal after that and was contemplating my existence, questioning my entire life. I took a break from organized religion for nearly a decade, I moved out of state and decided to give the LDS church another go. I walked through the doors of my local Ward, I was still on the books and was welcomed with open arms.
I was called as a Ward Missionary and gave up countless hours and devoted my entire life to the church. I had become a new person, found a new existence and peace. Then almost a year later, I met a guy (outside of church, even though I was quite infatuated with several of the missionaries who came and went as you might imagine I came to know them through working close together) and me and this guy started dating. Of course it was kept on the downlow, but it seemed every other Sunday you'd hear in Preisthood about the "Family unit" or taking passive agressive hits at the gay community.
That internal war started all over again. I became less active for a couple months, went back and within 3 weeks found I couldn't bear it anymore and left again. Although not suicidal, I became very depressed and even sat down and talked with the bishop, I never told him I was gay, just kept things as vague as possible.
Then two months later, after having struggled for so long and denying myself my own identity, I said f*** it, and I updated my Facebook orientation to public instead of private. Everything was fine for at least a month thereafter. My whole family at this time knew I was gay, they were happy for me, and glad that I finally took that step. Then I got an e-mail from the bishop requesting a meeting.
Never did it cross my mind that it had anything to do with me being gay, a month had passed and I actually forgot all about it. I stupidly accepted his offer and sat down with him. We talked about how I was doing, he made vague references to me being gay and at that point I had realized that it was the Mission Leader, the only member from the Ward that I had become friends with on Facebook - since I was a Ward Missionary, who had passed it along to the bishop that I was gay. The rest of the meeting was generalization and berating me, in a christ loving way of course. He talked about going to the temple, but instead of it just being about going to the temple like before, it became a conversation about how I couldn't go with the youth because of their privacy and needing to have that accoutability since they would be in a locker room naked. And how when I went with the adults I needed to respect my own privacy as well, in not so many words, don't be looking at the adults junk or bodies either. In just a short few seconds, I was treated like a pedophile and a deviant. Even though none of that ever happened, nor would it have ever happened. Once again, I hit rock bottom and became depressed all over again. If that wasn't enough, in my time off to take care of myself and better myself, I was then informed that he had decided to take away my calling and we "had a lot to talk about."
As weird as it might seem, in the midst of it all, I enjoyed my calling. It was my entire life, I loved meeting and talking to new investigators and having the oppourtunity to sit down with people who had become less active, and if not to get them to come back, to atleast be a friend and listen to their problems and try to help them with anything I could. Because unlike the bishop, I didn't care if they came back as I didn't see them as numbers, I seen them as people who needed help who weren't getting help from the people they should be getting help from and when they got better, if they didn't want to come back, so be it. That's their choice. But because of losing my calling, the way I had been treated, it felt like I had lost everything and had no reason to go back.
I was just a deviant homosexual pedophile who just sat in a pew for three hours, I'm not worth anything to them anymore, just a number to add to membership. So I never went back.
This morning my phone rang and I didn't recognize the number, it was a local number though so I decided to answer it. It turned out to be the Bishop. I haven't talked to this guy in almost 6 months and apparently he decided on a whim to call me on some random Saturday morning.
I regret answering the phone. All it turned out to be was a beratement of who I am, a chance to get in a few more jabs, and a clear understanding that he not only does not understand how to deal with depression, but how to treat people at all. It was the most insensitive conversation I have ever had. He just throws his weight around, throwing in the worst possible words you could ever say to someone to dismiss their depression like it's just a common cold.
Then he had the audacity to ask me if he would see me in church tomorrow. No. This conversation, my depression, everything about this whole f***ing ordeal should tell you why I'm not.
How do I move on? Even through all of this I suffer like it seems all ex-Mormons do. That sense of loss and feeling of wanting to go back. Which personally, as for myself, I don't understand why I feel this way. Not only is the bishop a heartless, insensitive, clueless asshole, but I've noticed over time that some members don't even talk to me anymore. Like this one women, everytime I walked in the room she nearly fell out of her chair with excitement and would give me a hug and act all weird. Then after all this started going down, she just sat there ignoring my existence acting like a stuck up bi***.
Ultimately, after that phone call this morning, as much I hate to admit it, I just sat there on the couch paralyzed with tears rolling down my cheeks. When does this end? How do I move on?
Quick back story. I'm an almost 30 year old guy who had been struggling for almost a decade with my sexuality. I've come to terms, and become quite happy, with being an openly out gay man. My family joined the LDS church when I was young, we stayed for about a year, then backed out and started going to a pentecostal church.
I later joined the youth group, became close with the youth pastors, but three years later - everything changed. See, I had a friend who was also in this youth group, he was gay. One of the church members saw him walking down the street holding hands with his boyfriend and narked on him to the youth pastors.
Not only did they kick him out of the youth group, but then they gave a public chastising in front of the whole youth group. He was no longer a person, he became a debased object, just short of being called a F**. As you can imagine, it tore me up. It was like I had been hit in the knees with a baseball bat and was brought to my knees.
I became suicidal after that and was contemplating my existence, questioning my entire life. I took a break from organized religion for nearly a decade, I moved out of state and decided to give the LDS church another go. I walked through the doors of my local Ward, I was still on the books and was welcomed with open arms.
I was called as a Ward Missionary and gave up countless hours and devoted my entire life to the church. I had become a new person, found a new existence and peace. Then almost a year later, I met a guy (outside of church, even though I was quite infatuated with several of the missionaries who came and went as you might imagine I came to know them through working close together) and me and this guy started dating. Of course it was kept on the downlow, but it seemed every other Sunday you'd hear in Preisthood about the "Family unit" or taking passive agressive hits at the gay community.
That internal war started all over again. I became less active for a couple months, went back and within 3 weeks found I couldn't bear it anymore and left again. Although not suicidal, I became very depressed and even sat down and talked with the bishop, I never told him I was gay, just kept things as vague as possible.
Then two months later, after having struggled for so long and denying myself my own identity, I said f*** it, and I updated my Facebook orientation to public instead of private. Everything was fine for at least a month thereafter. My whole family at this time knew I was gay, they were happy for me, and glad that I finally took that step. Then I got an e-mail from the bishop requesting a meeting.
Never did it cross my mind that it had anything to do with me being gay, a month had passed and I actually forgot all about it. I stupidly accepted his offer and sat down with him. We talked about how I was doing, he made vague references to me being gay and at that point I had realized that it was the Mission Leader, the only member from the Ward that I had become friends with on Facebook - since I was a Ward Missionary, who had passed it along to the bishop that I was gay. The rest of the meeting was generalization and berating me, in a christ loving way of course. He talked about going to the temple, but instead of it just being about going to the temple like before, it became a conversation about how I couldn't go with the youth because of their privacy and needing to have that accoutability since they would be in a locker room naked. And how when I went with the adults I needed to respect my own privacy as well, in not so many words, don't be looking at the adults junk or bodies either. In just a short few seconds, I was treated like a pedophile and a deviant. Even though none of that ever happened, nor would it have ever happened. Once again, I hit rock bottom and became depressed all over again. If that wasn't enough, in my time off to take care of myself and better myself, I was then informed that he had decided to take away my calling and we "had a lot to talk about."
As weird as it might seem, in the midst of it all, I enjoyed my calling. It was my entire life, I loved meeting and talking to new investigators and having the oppourtunity to sit down with people who had become less active, and if not to get them to come back, to atleast be a friend and listen to their problems and try to help them with anything I could. Because unlike the bishop, I didn't care if they came back as I didn't see them as numbers, I seen them as people who needed help who weren't getting help from the people they should be getting help from and when they got better, if they didn't want to come back, so be it. That's their choice. But because of losing my calling, the way I had been treated, it felt like I had lost everything and had no reason to go back.
I was just a deviant homosexual pedophile who just sat in a pew for three hours, I'm not worth anything to them anymore, just a number to add to membership. So I never went back.
This morning my phone rang and I didn't recognize the number, it was a local number though so I decided to answer it. It turned out to be the Bishop. I haven't talked to this guy in almost 6 months and apparently he decided on a whim to call me on some random Saturday morning.
I regret answering the phone. All it turned out to be was a beratement of who I am, a chance to get in a few more jabs, and a clear understanding that he not only does not understand how to deal with depression, but how to treat people at all. It was the most insensitive conversation I have ever had. He just throws his weight around, throwing in the worst possible words you could ever say to someone to dismiss their depression like it's just a common cold.
Then he had the audacity to ask me if he would see me in church tomorrow. No. This conversation, my depression, everything about this whole f***ing ordeal should tell you why I'm not.
How do I move on? Even through all of this I suffer like it seems all ex-Mormons do. That sense of loss and feeling of wanting to go back. Which personally, as for myself, I don't understand why I feel this way. Not only is the bishop a heartless, insensitive, clueless asshole, but I've noticed over time that some members don't even talk to me anymore. Like this one women, everytime I walked in the room she nearly fell out of her chair with excitement and would give me a hug and act all weird. Then after all this started going down, she just sat there ignoring my existence acting like a stuck up bi***.
Ultimately, after that phone call this morning, as much I hate to admit it, I just sat there on the couch paralyzed with tears rolling down my cheeks. When does this end? How do I move on?
Ryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do I move on? Even through all of this I
> suffer like it seems all ex-Mormons do. That sense
> of loss and feeling of wanting to go back.
You should decide if you are Ex-Mormon.
You are experiencing the pain of being the same person and having people treat you like you are a criminal. All experience it to varying degrees but it is based upon the loss of belief and not sexual orientation.
This is actually worse. Gay Mormons treated like criminals for being gay.
Take some time and settle the Mormon question first is my advice. THIS is the thing you need to be figuring out. If you have decided to not be Mormon than that is something. You can't decide on the sexual orientation so work on something you can.
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do I move on? Even through all of this I
> suffer like it seems all ex-Mormons do. That sense
> of loss and feeling of wanting to go back.
You should decide if you are Ex-Mormon.
You are experiencing the pain of being the same person and having people treat you like you are a criminal. All experience it to varying degrees but it is based upon the loss of belief and not sexual orientation.
This is actually worse. Gay Mormons treated like criminals for being gay.
Take some time and settle the Mormon question first is my advice. THIS is the thing you need to be figuring out. If you have decided to not be Mormon than that is something. You can't decide on the sexual orientation so work on something you can.
You stop affiliating yourself with gay hating cults and find a circle of people that accept you as a human-being.
Don't let their hatred kill your love.
There are many outlets to serve others, where you can and will be cherished, while remaining the authentic you.
Think of it like moving to a new city. Your potential has outgrown this small, dusty town populated by small, dusty thinking.
You need a new place to dwell, amongst those who hearts do not have artificially placed limits.
You are, believe it or not, just now starting adulthood. You're a young man entering a stage of life where you can enjoy more feeedom than you've ever known.
Of course it's deeply depressing to pretend to be someone you're not, but this pretence is now self-imposed. It's also sad to move away from people you've known for a long time, but necessary for your growth.
Face it. This cult/religion expects subservience down to your choice of underwear. Adults choose their own underwear every morning, and reading your post, I would prefer someone in his own choice of underwear.
You have a full, healthy and free life ahead of you if you choose it. Grieve the loss of old fair-weather friends, go to where you can be you.
BLOCK all on FB who wish to imprison you in their small hearts.
GO NOW.
There are many outlets to serve others, where you can and will be cherished, while remaining the authentic you.
Think of it like moving to a new city. Your potential has outgrown this small, dusty town populated by small, dusty thinking.
You need a new place to dwell, amongst those who hearts do not have artificially placed limits.
You are, believe it or not, just now starting adulthood. You're a young man entering a stage of life where you can enjoy more feeedom than you've ever known.
Of course it's deeply depressing to pretend to be someone you're not, but this pretence is now self-imposed. It's also sad to move away from people you've known for a long time, but necessary for your growth.
Face it. This cult/religion expects subservience down to your choice of underwear. Adults choose their own underwear every morning, and reading your post, I would prefer someone in his own choice of underwear.
You have a full, healthy and free life ahead of you if you choose it. Grieve the loss of old fair-weather friends, go to where you can be you.
BLOCK all on FB who wish to imprison you in their small hearts.
GO NOW.
A suggestion - your enjoyment of your missionary calling sounds like you enjoy and people also enjoy your talking and helping them. Find a group to volunteer with where you can give, as well as be welcomed.
Look for others to form friendships who have the same lifestyle as you. Remember that people have been endoctrinated, not only in Mormonism, but many other places to condemn things that they do not understand.
Wishing you luck, and please keep posting and we will keep listening.
Look for others to form friendships who have the same lifestyle as you. Remember that people have been endoctrinated, not only in Mormonism, but many other places to condemn things that they do not understand.
Wishing you luck, and please keep posting and we will keep listening.
Just a suggestion:
Look up your local unitarian universalist congregation & go to the service tomorrow (Sunday) morning. You may or may not like the service but my experience is that they will accept you for who you are.
Look up your local unitarian universalist congregation & go to the service tomorrow (Sunday) morning. You may or may not like the service but my experience is that they will accept you for who you are.
You felt useful and valued, which is superficial unless you are a carbon copy of other Mormons.
Begin therapy to sort out the depression. It might be a brain chemistry imbalance/require medication to begin with. You can always feel needed volunteering at a food bank... Once your depression is under control, perhaps you could help with the GLBT phone help line...
Set some goals and define a purpose: education, social life...
If you need religion, try various gay friendly congregations. Good luck on your path.
Begin therapy to sort out the depression. It might be a brain chemistry imbalance/require medication to begin with. You can always feel needed volunteering at a food bank... Once your depression is under control, perhaps you could help with the GLBT phone help line...
Set some goals and define a purpose: education, social life...
If you need religion, try various gay friendly congregations. Good luck on your path.
You are in an abusive relationship and keep coming back even though you keep getting beaten up when you do. This cult has had enough out of you. There is no future for you in the cult, only more abuse.
I think a non LDS a counsellor would help you figure out how to break the emotional grip the cult has on you. All the good stuff you get from the church you can get somewhere else.
I politely suggest you reconsider whether you are doing good by getting inactives more active or helping persuade investigators to join the cult. What if some of those investigators have gay kids, now or later? You may enjoy it but are you doing them any favor.
I suggest you send an email to the bishop saying you are leaving and want no further contact. Then hang up if he calls or close the door on him if he comes to your door. Delete unread any emails. You don't have to take this bull anymore and only you can put a stop to it.
I think a non LDS a counsellor would help you figure out how to break the emotional grip the cult has on you. All the good stuff you get from the church you can get somewhere else.
I politely suggest you reconsider whether you are doing good by getting inactives more active or helping persuade investigators to join the cult. What if some of those investigators have gay kids, now or later? You may enjoy it but are you doing them any favor.
I suggest you send an email to the bishop saying you are leaving and want no further contact. Then hang up if he calls or close the door on him if he comes to your door. Delete unread any emails. You don't have to take this bull anymore and only you can put a stop to it.
First resign from the Mormon church. Complete directions for how to do so can be found here:
http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm
It is not necessary that you have any further communications with the bishop in order to resign.
Next, get a complete medical workup. Insist with your M.D. that you get help for your depression, either through medication, counseling, or a combination of both.
If you have not already investigated support groups for gays, I would do so. And I agree with Presleynfactsrock that you might wish to investigate other ways to help people in your community such as Habitat for Humanity, etc.
I would take some time away from religion altogether. In the future, should you wish to align yourself with a faith community, please pick one that is gay friendly. Mormonism isn't it!
http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm
It is not necessary that you have any further communications with the bishop in order to resign.
Next, get a complete medical workup. Insist with your M.D. that you get help for your depression, either through medication, counseling, or a combination of both.
If you have not already investigated support groups for gays, I would do so. And I agree with Presleynfactsrock that you might wish to investigate other ways to help people in your community such as Habitat for Humanity, etc.
I would take some time away from religion altogether. In the future, should you wish to align yourself with a faith community, please pick one that is gay friendly. Mormonism isn't it!
You move on by taking the haters out of your life. Never give a one of them a chance to attack you again.
You take your power back and own it. You are not some idiot's punching bag emotionally or any other way.
Cut off the bishop (no phone calls, block his phone, email, etc.) and anyone else that is not accepting of you. You are OK. Remember that. Anyone that wants to hurt you has a serious problem with themselves that has nothing to do with you!!!!!!
You take your power back and own it. You are not some idiot's punching bag emotionally or any other way.
Cut off the bishop (no phone calls, block his phone, email, etc.) and anyone else that is not accepting of you. You are OK. Remember that. Anyone that wants to hurt you has a serious problem with themselves that has nothing to do with you!!!!!!
Sorry you had and have so much pain.
I'll be your new Bishop. (ring, ring.) (please answer this call.)
Hello Ryan, it's Bishop PapaKen. How are you today? I hope you're doing better.
There's NOTHING wrong with you. Not ANYthing.
I'd like to give you a new calling: Find and be true to your authentic Ryan. And telling your story is already helping MANY others, so thanks for sharing! Don't stop!
Call back anytime - we're all "bishops" here, we all love you, and we'll support you in any way we can.
Bye for now.
Bishop PapaKen
I'll be your new Bishop. (ring, ring.) (please answer this call.)
Hello Ryan, it's Bishop PapaKen. How are you today? I hope you're doing better.
There's NOTHING wrong with you. Not ANYthing.
I'd like to give you a new calling: Find and be true to your authentic Ryan. And telling your story is already helping MANY others, so thanks for sharing! Don't stop!
Call back anytime - we're all "bishops" here, we all love you, and we'll support you in any way we can.
Bye for now.
Bishop PapaKen
Is this an organization that you really want to be a part of? That you want your name associated with? It's not the only social organization in the world and plenty will be completely accepting of who you are.
Plenty of us left the organization because of the way that they treat gays, women, other races, etc. Anyone who isn't just like them. They want everyone to be a carbon copy of the next guy.
Don't let these predudiced idiots do this to you. There is nothing wrong with you. You are not broken. Be proud of who you are. Just be yourself and be comfortable in your own skin. Find people to associate with who accept you just as you are.
What kind of person would call someone up just to berate them? Is this someone to look up to and respect? Absolutely not!
If he calls again, just think to yourself, "I don't wish to talk to you. You're a negative person and I don't need that in my life. You have no more authority over me than I am willing to hand over to you." Then say, "Mr. So-in-so, I see no point in this discussion. We are not going to agree on anything here. I insist that you not contact me again."
Take back your own personal power, Ryan, and don't let anyone ever take it away from you again. I wish all the best in your journey.
Plenty of us left the organization because of the way that they treat gays, women, other races, etc. Anyone who isn't just like them. They want everyone to be a carbon copy of the next guy.
Don't let these predudiced idiots do this to you. There is nothing wrong with you. You are not broken. Be proud of who you are. Just be yourself and be comfortable in your own skin. Find people to associate with who accept you just as you are.
What kind of person would call someone up just to berate them? Is this someone to look up to and respect? Absolutely not!
If he calls again, just think to yourself, "I don't wish to talk to you. You're a negative person and I don't need that in my life. You have no more authority over me than I am willing to hand over to you." Then say, "Mr. So-in-so, I see no point in this discussion. We are not going to agree on anything here. I insist that you not contact me again."
Take back your own personal power, Ryan, and don't let anyone ever take it away from you again. I wish all the best in your journey.
You are loved and valued and worthy and don't ever believe otherwise.
If you want a church experience, look for the rainbow flag or any church that says "welcoming." You will be treated as exactly what you are, a human being seeking ways to be in community with others.
Good luck, so sorry you have been so hurt.
If you want a church experience, look for the rainbow flag or any church that says "welcoming." You will be treated as exactly what you are, a human being seeking ways to be in community with others.
Good luck, so sorry you have been so hurt.
F*CK the bishopprick and F*CK the entire CULT. You have fought hard to be able to be yourself. You sound like a nice person to me. But, you need to ignore all of these as*holes who continue to treat you like crap. It is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. This is your life.
Check out Buddhism if you want. It is VERY accepting of gay, straight, any race, creed etc. My Sangha (Buddhist community) has many gay people in it and all of them seem well adjusted because they are not constantly criticized and worse for being who they are. My particular kind of Buddhism is Shambhala Buddhism, but all of the various kinds are accepting. They also don't criticize other religions etc. In fact, they believe that the world will be better when ALL people come together as inhabitants of this planet and cooperate with one another. IMAGINE THAT!
You did not say where you are, but there is a Shambala group in SLC:
https://www.facebook.com/SaltLakeCityShambhalaParkCityMeditation
The fact that you enjoyed your calling tells me that you like being committed to something that you feel helps others. Within Shambhala, you can get a "calling" although they don't call them that. THey have lots of volunteer positions. THey don't have tithing, just honest donations if you can afford it. If not, you are not criticized. If you are on the poor side, they even have ways in which they help you financially with the various classes they offer. It is the POLAR OPPOSITE of the CULT, really. Their main focus is ENLIGHTENED SOCIETY which IS POSSIBLE.
You are a great person! You are NOT a deviant pedophile. I know some people on this board are going to perhaps disagree with me when I say what follows and you might disagree too and that's OK. But, from your post, you sound like a spiritual person who probably would not be a happy atheist. Like myself, you desire something beyond the everyday experience. If I am wrong, OK but I wanted to let you know that from you post, I get the impression that you desire something more and that your desire for something deeper in your existence comes from who you are and everything you have been through since birth. For you own sake and happiness, forget about the CULT and try something else like Buddhism perhaps, an organization that accepts you and celebrates who you are NOW and doesn't want you to change. I am grateful that your family is accepting since so many gay people suffer such abuse from their own families.
Get caller ID and don't answer the phone when the CULT calls or better yet, send them a registered letter letting them know that you want NO CONTACT EVER AGAIN. Let them know that you are just fine as you are and better off without them.
Please keep us informed. There are people here at RfM who do care including me. You are young and have many years ahead of you, years in which you deserve to be happy.
Check out Buddhism if you want. It is VERY accepting of gay, straight, any race, creed etc. My Sangha (Buddhist community) has many gay people in it and all of them seem well adjusted because they are not constantly criticized and worse for being who they are. My particular kind of Buddhism is Shambhala Buddhism, but all of the various kinds are accepting. They also don't criticize other religions etc. In fact, they believe that the world will be better when ALL people come together as inhabitants of this planet and cooperate with one another. IMAGINE THAT!
You did not say where you are, but there is a Shambala group in SLC:
https://www.facebook.com/SaltLakeCityShambhalaParkCityMeditation
The fact that you enjoyed your calling tells me that you like being committed to something that you feel helps others. Within Shambhala, you can get a "calling" although they don't call them that. THey have lots of volunteer positions. THey don't have tithing, just honest donations if you can afford it. If not, you are not criticized. If you are on the poor side, they even have ways in which they help you financially with the various classes they offer. It is the POLAR OPPOSITE of the CULT, really. Their main focus is ENLIGHTENED SOCIETY which IS POSSIBLE.
You are a great person! You are NOT a deviant pedophile. I know some people on this board are going to perhaps disagree with me when I say what follows and you might disagree too and that's OK. But, from your post, you sound like a spiritual person who probably would not be a happy atheist. Like myself, you desire something beyond the everyday experience. If I am wrong, OK but I wanted to let you know that from you post, I get the impression that you desire something more and that your desire for something deeper in your existence comes from who you are and everything you have been through since birth. For you own sake and happiness, forget about the CULT and try something else like Buddhism perhaps, an organization that accepts you and celebrates who you are NOW and doesn't want you to change. I am grateful that your family is accepting since so many gay people suffer such abuse from their own families.
Get caller ID and don't answer the phone when the CULT calls or better yet, send them a registered letter letting them know that you want NO CONTACT EVER AGAIN. Let them know that you are just fine as you are and better off without them.
Please keep us informed. There are people here at RfM who do care including me. You are young and have many years ahead of you, years in which you deserve to be happy.
Being a Nevermo allows me to take an outside look. You have been groomed to always go with the group.
This is manipulation at it's finest. If you don't act a certain way, or believe a certain thing, then you are shunned. You don't belong...
Your biggest secret to getting better is learning how to accept yourself, think, feel, and love yourself. Be comfortable in finding your own way. Thinking independent of the group.
You are an awesome person. I hope one day you see the good that is inside! Stay strong and vent. This board is a good thing!
This is manipulation at it's finest. If you don't act a certain way, or believe a certain thing, then you are shunned. You don't belong...
Your biggest secret to getting better is learning how to accept yourself, think, feel, and love yourself. Be comfortable in finding your own way. Thinking independent of the group.
You are an awesome person. I hope one day you see the good that is inside! Stay strong and vent. This board is a good thing!
I'm not even gay. I was married to a gay man and walking away from Mormonism is the best thing he and I have ever done. Finally realizing it was all a lie was such a huge relief to me and my ex.
The way we were both treated in our situation BEFORE we got married (we never went to a leader again about my ex being gay after we were married). They put us through HELL.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2015 12:39AM by cl2.
The way we were both treated in our situation BEFORE we got married (we never went to a leader again about my ex being gay after we were married). They put us through HELL.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2015 12:39AM by cl2.
In my resignation letter, I just stuck to the form letter, never listing any of the real reasons for wanting to get out. You see, citing those just gives them things to debate about with you, later.
In later years, if asked why I left, I just smile and say, "It just didn't work for me." And then I change the subject. How can anybody argue with such a bland statement? It has worked every time.
It sounds like you should affiliate with a group that appreciates your ability to get along well with all sorts of people. You just need to find the right one. It could very well be non-Christian. I have never met a Buddhist that I didn't like. They are very nice, non-critical people (at least, the ones I know.) And it doesn't even need to be religious.
you sound like a heck of a nice guy, and the world NEEDS people like you. Get away from the condemning a$$holes who don't appreciate you, and find a group that will welcome you - and your talents- with open arms.
And for the record, we've got your back. You're one of us, so we already love you!
In later years, if asked why I left, I just smile and say, "It just didn't work for me." And then I change the subject. How can anybody argue with such a bland statement? It has worked every time.
It sounds like you should affiliate with a group that appreciates your ability to get along well with all sorts of people. You just need to find the right one. It could very well be non-Christian. I have never met a Buddhist that I didn't like. They are very nice, non-critical people (at least, the ones I know.) And it doesn't even need to be religious.
you sound like a heck of a nice guy, and the world NEEDS people like you. Get away from the condemning a$$holes who don't appreciate you, and find a group that will welcome you - and your talents- with open arms.
And for the record, we've got your back. You're one of us, so we already love you!
I think it would be good to take some time to step back and be good to yourself. You might be tempted to find something else to fill the time and space Mormonism took up in your life, but maybe it's better to just relax. You don't need to hunt down the perfect religion (or lack of) right now. Maybe you could take a warm bath, or find a new, fulfilling hobby. Your life is about you, and no matter who else comes and goes, you will always be with yourself. You are the most important person you could ever love. Do what makes you happy, and treat yourself right.
You sound like a kind, empathetic person with a lot to offer to organizations that will appreciate you for who and what you are. That is what you need to seek out. It is NOT the mormon church.
I once had a similar phone call that I regretted answering from a member of the stake presidency who kept insisting that he knew that I had something to talk to him about. After listening to him a bit I said to him that he made the phone call, not me, and if I had felt that I needed to talk to him, I would have called him. I hung up on him and it felt so good. You are not required to listen to what he or any other judgemental person thinks of you. Don't put yourself under their power and allow their negativity to infect you. You are perfectly fine the way you are! I wish you all the best for you as you take steps on your own path. The journey is worth it!
I once had a similar phone call that I regretted answering from a member of the stake presidency who kept insisting that he knew that I had something to talk to him about. After listening to him a bit I said to him that he made the phone call, not me, and if I had felt that I needed to talk to him, I would have called him. I hung up on him and it felt so good. You are not required to listen to what he or any other judgemental person thinks of you. Don't put yourself under their power and allow their negativity to infect you. You are perfectly fine the way you are! I wish you all the best for you as you take steps on your own path. The journey is worth it!
You feel the way you do because you, first, truly believed that the caring you felt from church associations was true, Christ centered concern and caring. It never was, except, possibly, from a few exceptional Mormons that don't know what is going on.
Second, you lost a very strong, worldwide support network. I had non-Mormon friends who envied me my support system that followed me wherever I moved but none of them were willing to join my faith to gain that network since they rejected the things I once excused and somehow justified in Mormonism.
You've taken a first step. It REALLY does get better after time passes and you realize that you have been deceived. I feel better now that I'm out of Mormonism but I cannot deny the hurt I feel when I see former supposed friends give me the stink-eye and snide remarks when they see me.
I just finished watching an interview where the celebrity interviewee spoke about the most important thing she learned from her mother. She said, "If you do what you know is right you will have to accept that it won't always make others happy with you." I know this to be true. Some of the most important innovators in history were hated immensely but they stayed the course and time proved them to be heros. Be a hero and be who you truly are. It won't always make others love you but you will be better able to love yourself. Sending you love and support.
Second, you lost a very strong, worldwide support network. I had non-Mormon friends who envied me my support system that followed me wherever I moved but none of them were willing to join my faith to gain that network since they rejected the things I once excused and somehow justified in Mormonism.
You've taken a first step. It REALLY does get better after time passes and you realize that you have been deceived. I feel better now that I'm out of Mormonism but I cannot deny the hurt I feel when I see former supposed friends give me the stink-eye and snide remarks when they see me.
I just finished watching an interview where the celebrity interviewee spoke about the most important thing she learned from her mother. She said, "If you do what you know is right you will have to accept that it won't always make others happy with you." I know this to be true. Some of the most important innovators in history were hated immensely but they stayed the course and time proved them to be heros. Be a hero and be who you truly are. It won't always make others love you but you will be better able to love yourself. Sending you love and support.
So sorry for your hurting and feelings of rejection.
They just don't know how to relate to people. It isn't you.
It's hard not to find the acceptance you so much long for there.
The niceties though after years of going to LDS church are just on the surface. It's all for appearances sake.
The compassion and empathy is what's missing there! Which is the opposite of Christlike love that you really need.
Hey, the irony is they are no better than you are. We're all sinners, and we all fall short of the mark.
So you're attracted to same sex. In this day and age, is probably the best time for gays and homosexuals to be out of the closet. They are well received in the workplace, and there's plenty of religions where they're made to feel welcome, and accepted as they are.
It's hard leaving Mormonism, even for us heterosexuals. It's just an outright displacement, no matter how right you are for leaving there. It's hard to do because so much of our identity was caught up in it..
It does get easier over time. So be patient with yourself. Develop new friends and interests. Take up a hobby, go back to school. Whatever it takes to feel good about yourself again. And surround yourself with positive people who accept you as you are.
They just don't know how to relate to people. It isn't you.
It's hard not to find the acceptance you so much long for there.
The niceties though after years of going to LDS church are just on the surface. It's all for appearances sake.
The compassion and empathy is what's missing there! Which is the opposite of Christlike love that you really need.
Hey, the irony is they are no better than you are. We're all sinners, and we all fall short of the mark.
So you're attracted to same sex. In this day and age, is probably the best time for gays and homosexuals to be out of the closet. They are well received in the workplace, and there's plenty of religions where they're made to feel welcome, and accepted as they are.
It's hard leaving Mormonism, even for us heterosexuals. It's just an outright displacement, no matter how right you are for leaving there. It's hard to do because so much of our identity was caught up in it..
It does get easier over time. So be patient with yourself. Develop new friends and interests. Take up a hobby, go back to school. Whatever it takes to feel good about yourself again. And surround yourself with positive people who accept you as you are.
Thank you everyone for your advice and words of encouragement!
With the remainder of the weekend I decided to leave the LDS church. Even with the appearance of further acceptance from the church, it is clear that they have a lot of work left to do if they truly want to have open minds and to love "Heavenly Fathers children." It begins with full acceptance, not with automatically labeling someone a pedophile or deviant just because they're gay - especially when 75% of the real sex offenders are heterosexual and they have proven offenders working with children every week - which I am not.
The morg prides itself on being obedient and atoning for your sins as we’ll all one day have to answer for our transgressions – this whole organization is going to have to answer a lot of questions. Like how poorly they treated Heavenly Fathers children, not just gays, but black, white, and everyone else in-between who was cast to the wayside because they didn’t conform to their petty standards.
I discovered while doing family research that my dad's side of the family was Mormon, then the Mormon lineage stopped around the 1950s. Everyone just stopped being Mormon, maybe I should have seen it as a sign. One of my greatx3 grandfathers worked his ass off for this church and as far as I can tell, didn't get anything of value in return. He served a 7 year long mission (this was before they set standards and limits on how long you could serve), he was called on his 7th mission to England right after my grandmother became pregnant. A few years after returning he was called to the Quorum of the 12, wrote hymns for the hymn book, then was later called to serve in the first presidency for Joseph F Smith, then the second presidency for Heber J Grant. Then was a professor at BYU - though at that time it was still the Brigham Young Academy.
Nevertheless, I refuse to be like him. Give everything and have nothing to show for it, while being considered less than in the process.
For now, I'm taking a break and figuring out what I can do for myself. Maybe later on I'll join the universal church or some other organization, but for now, I realize I don't need the LDS church to be a good person or to have morals - religion (some, not all) have a funny view of reality. That you need them to be a good person or have morals, when in fact they are horrible people who lack the very morals they claim you need.
With the remainder of the weekend I decided to leave the LDS church. Even with the appearance of further acceptance from the church, it is clear that they have a lot of work left to do if they truly want to have open minds and to love "Heavenly Fathers children." It begins with full acceptance, not with automatically labeling someone a pedophile or deviant just because they're gay - especially when 75% of the real sex offenders are heterosexual and they have proven offenders working with children every week - which I am not.
The morg prides itself on being obedient and atoning for your sins as we’ll all one day have to answer for our transgressions – this whole organization is going to have to answer a lot of questions. Like how poorly they treated Heavenly Fathers children, not just gays, but black, white, and everyone else in-between who was cast to the wayside because they didn’t conform to their petty standards.
I discovered while doing family research that my dad's side of the family was Mormon, then the Mormon lineage stopped around the 1950s. Everyone just stopped being Mormon, maybe I should have seen it as a sign. One of my greatx3 grandfathers worked his ass off for this church and as far as I can tell, didn't get anything of value in return. He served a 7 year long mission (this was before they set standards and limits on how long you could serve), he was called on his 7th mission to England right after my grandmother became pregnant. A few years after returning he was called to the Quorum of the 12, wrote hymns for the hymn book, then was later called to serve in the first presidency for Joseph F Smith, then the second presidency for Heber J Grant. Then was a professor at BYU - though at that time it was still the Brigham Young Academy.
Nevertheless, I refuse to be like him. Give everything and have nothing to show for it, while being considered less than in the process.
For now, I'm taking a break and figuring out what I can do for myself. Maybe later on I'll join the universal church or some other organization, but for now, I realize I don't need the LDS church to be a good person or to have morals - religion (some, not all) have a funny view of reality. That you need them to be a good person or have morals, when in fact they are horrible people who lack the very morals they claim you need.
In Canada we have The United Church of Canada. It's a very traditional type of Christian church which came about in 1925 through a union of Presbyterian, Methodist, Congregational, and the General Council of the Local Union Churches.
A friend of mine has a cousin who is an openly lesbian Minister in the church. There's still a lot of struggle within the church on this issue, but some of the ministers will perform gay marriages. They are making a lot of strides forward.
I wish that there was a mainstream organization like this in the States.
A friend of mine has a cousin who is an openly lesbian Minister in the church. There's still a lot of struggle within the church on this issue, but some of the ministers will perform gay marriages. They are making a lot of strides forward.
I wish that there was a mainstream organization like this in the States.
45 years ago a group of brave men and women stepped off the curb and marched through the streets of Los Angeles to celebrate the Stonewall Riots that had happened in New York the year before. That celebration evolved into the modern Gay Pride movement. This year is LA Pride's 45th anniversary. Thousands of people will come together to celebrate the very thing that is tearing you apart. We will be joined by our straight allies and March down Santa Monica blvd because there are still people who share the kind of experiences you describe.
In he midst of all the chaos producing the parade and festival there usually comes a moment of reflection about why it is important to continue what can at times be a silly and overwhelming process. The answer is usually the same...we remember our own journey from shame to PRIDE and never forget that there are those still struggling. We realize we may not silence the haters but we can encourage the GLBT community to stop listening to them and prove that when we accept ourselves life is really worth celebrating.
Two of the founders of Christopher Street West, the organization that produces LA Pride were ministers. They found a way to integrate their belief with the reality of their being gay. In fact it was Rev Troy Perry who when asked what kind of "demonstration"'was being planned to commemorate Stonewall rep,iced "this is Los Angeles". We're gonna have a celebration". Troy is going to Cuba later this year to help the GLBT community there celebrate what your bishop and your church can't accept.
The problem is not that you answered the phone....the problem is that you listened to the wrong people. Consider this a call to join in a different process. One in which you may actually find love, joy, acceptance, community...in other words a pretty damn good reason to celebrate
In he midst of all the chaos producing the parade and festival there usually comes a moment of reflection about why it is important to continue what can at times be a silly and overwhelming process. The answer is usually the same...we remember our own journey from shame to PRIDE and never forget that there are those still struggling. We realize we may not silence the haters but we can encourage the GLBT community to stop listening to them and prove that when we accept ourselves life is really worth celebrating.
Two of the founders of Christopher Street West, the organization that produces LA Pride were ministers. They found a way to integrate their belief with the reality of their being gay. In fact it was Rev Troy Perry who when asked what kind of "demonstration"'was being planned to commemorate Stonewall rep,iced "this is Los Angeles". We're gonna have a celebration". Troy is going to Cuba later this year to help the GLBT community there celebrate what your bishop and your church can't accept.
The problem is not that you answered the phone....the problem is that you listened to the wrong people. Consider this a call to join in a different process. One in which you may actually find love, joy, acceptance, community...in other words a pretty damn good reason to celebrate