Indiana pizza shop owners in hiding as donations pour in

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/indiana-pizza-shop-owners-in-hiding-as-donations-pour-in/ar-AAap2k5

If they thought this through, they should be on a world cruise, under assumed names, keeping in touch with their bank via the internet.

maybe they like thier notoriety!?? They sure made bank on this! over a half a million dollars in donations!

Keep in mind, this is the same type of notoriety that George Zimmerman got and about the same amount of money. I don't think Zimmerman is enjoying his fame that much.

Keep in mind that most lottery winners do not inherently "get smart" with winning. Zimmerman was an idiot before the trial. Time will tell if the shop owners had sense prior to the event as well.

it may be wise to hide until the current tide of tolerance and diversity subsides a bit.

Gays have received many death threats just for being gay:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/03/03/behold-the-s*odomite-suppression-act-californias-very-own-kill-the-gays-bill/

Take the "*" out of the URL.

No, this is not some religious theocracy that gays should be happy not to be a part of, this is right here in the USA.

After decades of being threaten with death, yes, some gays give the death threats back. They see it as fighting fire with fire.

The violence and hate from the anti-gay crowd has gotten them violence and hate in return. It is not uncommon when the repressive society falls that the repressed seek an "eye for an eye" type of retribution.

At least the gays are not trying to pass laws here in the USA and around the world to kill the people they disagree with. The anti-gay crowed should be happy they do not have it as bad as they are treating gays.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 11:02AM by MJ.

I also will not sell cheap pizzas to anyone for a gay wedding (as if gays would eat pizza at a wedding) nor would I sell them to Lesbians, Mexicans, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Catholics, Baptists or anyone that works for a hospital.

Where do I go to get my half a million dollars?

Hopefully they're taxed big time for these gift donations.

Devoted Exmo's comments about George Zimmerman are right on target.

why would you want them to be taxed for a gift? Why should the govt. be entitled to their money? It's the same with the death tax. There needs to be less government in people's lives.
I love love loved the videos of the guy going into the muslim bakeries and being told "no" to gay wedding cakes and the guys going into gay bakeries and being told "no" to traditional marriage cakes.
I don't even want gov't deciding about smoking in restaurants even though I DETEST smoking. Let the consumer decide where he/she wants to shop and spend their money.
All this says is that people are for EVERYTHING. If the bakery turns down the beastiality cake, he's guilty. If they turn down the man/boy love association cake, he's guilty. If they turn down the traditional marriage cake, he's guilty.
Come into my business and tell me how to run it. Oh wait. People already do and I manipulate the situation to make them feel good and put their money in my pocket in the end.
Now, come into my place of business and act like an idiot, I will handle that situation as well.

Look, we're all in this together. We all need to contribute to roads, bridges, policing, water works, schools. The experiment to have only the rich provide these things for themselves and everyone else is on their own didn't work out very well for humanity.

I agree. Let the free market straighten it out. I like that word: "free".

MJ Wrote:
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> http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/
> 2014/07/No_Dogs-Negroes-Mexicans_-_Racist_Sign_fro
> m_Deep_South_-_National_Civil_Rights_Museum_-_Down
> town_Memphis_-_Tennessee_-_USA.jpg

=============================== ==========
Not a very good job of Photoshopping there!

If you need something that is not photo shopped:

http://i.imgur.com/Pxp6F.jpg


http://www.coolcleveland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/no.jpg

MJ Wrote:
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> http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/
> 2014/07/No_Dogs-Negroes-Mexicans_-_Racist_Sign_fro
> m_Deep_South_-_National_Civil_Rights_Museum_-_Down
> town_Memphis_-_Tennessee_-_USA.jpg


You know what's missing from any of your arguments? A single, current instance of actual verified bias or discrimination based upon sexual preference.

There have been many denial of service discrimination against gays and gay marriage posted here in the past.

Hell, at least I showed the place enough respect to take their word as good an did not go off calling them liars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 11:42AM by MJ.

There already is a federal gift tax, and since this isn't income, it applies here. Don't like it? Move to another country without taxes.

It's refreshing to see fascist Christian a-holes finally getting some come-uppance.

Dark Lord Wrote:
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> It's refreshing to see fascist Christian a-holes
> finally getting some come-uppance.


That's right. How dare they not believe exactly as YOU think they should.

I don't give a shit how they believe, but when they use that belief to treat me as less than anyone else that walks into the businesses, I start having a problem.

Sure, they should be able to treat each and every customer different. Have you every purchased a car? I'm betting that someone was a better buyer than you and got a better deal. You need to go back and demand that you were treated equally to the lowest price purchaser. I guess I should have to hire the idiot that tatooed "fill in the idiot word" across his neck. Nope, it ain't going to happen. I've discriminated against many dumbarses for this reason and others. For the record, I have hired blacks, hispanics, whites but no gays (I don't think any have applied but if they did and they could do the work, I would hire them just the same.)
Now, I like the idea of gay marriage. What I would like to see even more is harsh punishment for divorce. Not for both parties but the one who caused it. Have them go before a jury. Guilty party gives up all rights to children, required to get a job and give up 50% of salary to ex until remarriage or death. Can't get a job. Well then - death. Not a big fan of gov't handouts but I would make the exception in this case.
We're just a gutless society for holding guilty parties accountable to a painful degree.

They negotiate with each and every customer. Some of the customer are better negotiators and get a better deal than others, but that is not a matter of being treated as "less than anyone else that walks into the businesses" base on religious beliefs.

Sorry, you post does not address my point about beliefs, and does not actually reflect people being treated differently.

I also did say "...treat each and every customer different" I stated: "to treat me as less than anyone else that walks into the businesses" which, of course, is a completely different subject. Why do you feel compelled to misrepresent what I have said? Can't you make your point without such misrepresentation?

Your post fails on so many different levels.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2015 11:22PM by MJ.

The owner said they would serve all customers in their restaurant, but they would not cater a gay wedding. What I think this all comes down to is: do you believe that they have the right to their beliefs?

Their business is not. Just like a business can not say they will not cater the wedding of black people, they also should not be able to deny service to jews, um I mean exmormons, um Catholics, I mean gays.

If they are running a public accommodation business to cater weddings and are not willing to cater the weddings of the public, they should get out of the PUBLIC accommodation business.

For those that live in Utah, imagine what would happen if all the mormon owned business refused service to exmormons?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2015 10:59PM by MJ.

Actually, they have never catered a wedding. It was a hypothetical questions posed to them by a reporter who was looking for a score.

They have stated that they would treat me different than other customers. If you are saying they would not treat me different, then is your defense of what they said to call them liars? With friends like you, they do not need enemies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2015 11:04PM by MJ.

Big rich companies are stepping up to defend the rights of gays on this point. These companies have done so with apparent impunity. It seems likely that Indiana has lost way more business than that pizza shop has gotten in donations.

While gays have big companies supporting us, the anti-gay marriage folks are having to prop up a business that would likely have failed if left to normal market pressures.

All of that money going to support that shop is money that can't be used to fight gay marriage politically.

To me, this is showing how politically weak the anti-gay marriage crowd is getting.

Before the comments were taken off he Go Fund Me page, there was a really nice post from a lesbian who said she was donated because she didn't like to see anyone bullied. There is a very loud, very small subset of the homosexual community that could learn a lesson from her. It always takes two to fight.

It is bullying to refuse service based on prejudice, religious or otherwise. Bullying begets bullying. If they did not want bullying used as a weapon, they should not have used it themselves.

Did someone say pizza? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before the comments were taken off he Go Fund Me
> page, there was a really nice post from a lesbian
> who said she was donated because she didn't like
> to see anyone bullied. There is a very loud, very
> small subset of the homosexual community that
> could learn a lesson from her. It always takes two
> to fight.

Hopefully we'll see more like her. Lost in this controversy is the fact that there have been no reported incidents of bias or discrimination against gays recorded in Indiana for a very long time. What occurred here is someone expressed their disagreement with gay marriage.

The eruption that resulted is from a segment of the gay community that seems to believe perhaps every American should be posed the question, "Are you now, or have you ever been opposed to gay marriage?" If you answer in the affirmative, they believe you are a hate filled bigot who has no right to coexist in their version of a civilized society. I think the Go Fund Me response demonstrates that there's a large portion of our society that feels there's much greater harm in punishing an opinion than actually holding one.

I sincerely hope that more gay Americans will quickly mature and recognize themselves as a special interest group the way most have done before them. The very nature of a special interest group is one that often holds values that are distinct from the majority of the population. The key to actual coexistence is to attempt to sway those who disagree with you, but recognize they have the right to disagree. We will always have those that embrace childish responses that refuse to allow the term "disagree," and insist that only hatred and bigotry oppose their position. That's sad, but wiser and more reasonable positions will hopefully prevail over time. And if this means gay bakeries and pizzerias get more business than those owned by conservative Christians, it's about as close to an ideal world as anyone should hope for.

I imagine gay citizens throughout the Middle East would jump at the chance to have their level of societal conflict reduced to having a handful of non-vital services deferred to fellow gay citizens while allowing those who disagree with their lifestyle to choose not to participate in certain elements of it. Perhaps some of the energy that's been dedicated to ruining this pizzeria due to their opinions, would be better dedicated to addressing the actual oppression of gays that occurs throughout much of the Arab world.

"I imagine gay citizens throughout the Middle East would jump at the chance to have their level of societal conflict reduced to having a handful of non-vital services deferred to fellow gay citizens while allowing those who disagree with their lifestyle to choose not to participate in certain elements of it. Perhaps some of the energy that's been dedicated to ruining this pizzeria due to their opinions, would be better dedicated to addressing the actual oppression of gays that occurs throughout much of the Arab world."

I will give you a few moments to figure out how offensive and ignorant that statement is.

Hint 1) excusing bad behavior by saying others are receiving worse behavior

Hint 2) look at how difficult is has been for the gays in the USA to affect change in a DEMOCRACY compared to a RELIGIOUS THEOCRACY.

Hint 3) How difficult is it for a non-citizen to change the laws of a country they are not citizens of? Even the USA government can't seem to accomplish that.

Hint 4) many gays has spent a lot of time and money sporting gays rights world wide.

"Also, I will repeat my point:
It is bullying to refuse service based on prejudice, religious or otherwise. Bullying begets bullying. If they did not want bullying used as a weapon, they should not have used it themselves."

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Also, I will repeat my point:
> It is bullying to refuse service based on
> prejudice, religious or otherwise. Bullying begets
> bullying. If they did not want bullying used as a
> weapon, they should not have used it themselves."


MJ, you are part of the gay community that will likely not rest until every contrary opinion is silenced or forced to mouth agreement with your agenda. In the real world, there will always be those who disagree with gay marriage and will do so without a hint of hatred or bigotry. But that is a position your faction seems incapable of recognizing.

I appeal to those who would truly wish to dwell in a diverse, inclusive society. One that allows even those vigorously opposed to them the freedom to live according to their conscience. Nobody is being denied housing, work, or the ability to earn a living. And there is no service even potentially withheld that is not available freely and eagerly from a plethora of other vendors.

Your naivete regarding the ability of a foreigner to impact policies abroad is inexcusable. US foreign policy has brought a number of countries to their knees by implementing sanctions. If the specious efforts to close down a pizzeria were directed toward a concerted effort to have our government truly put teeth into a demand for human rights abroad, can you imagine what the outcome could be? I don't think you can. It's far more satisfying to track down opposing opinions at home and try to financially ruin those who disagree.

And you are part of the anti-gay population that insists that gays accept and know their place as second class citizens.

I will proudly fight until gay rights are accepted EVERYWHERE, despite those that try to get me to accept discrimination anywhere.

It is not truly a diverse society as long as parts of the society are denied benefits of the society.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 11:13AM by MJ.

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And you are part of the anti-gay population that
> insists that gays accept and know their place as
> second class citizens.
>
> I will proudly fight until gay rights are accepted
> EVERYWHERE, despite those that try to get me to
> accept discrimination anywhere.
>
> It is not truly a diverse society as long as parts
> of the society are denied benefits of the society.

Gays are second class citizens in the exact same way that Republicans, Democrats, and those who argue for legalization of pot. Adults recognize that you can't get everything you want in life. Those not given to complex thought or the immature will characterize anything short of complete surrender as hatred, discrimination, and bigotry.

Horse crap. in places where Pot is illegal it is illegal for EVERYONE other than those with medical need (same as with many other medicines)

The pizza place issue is refusal of service based on an immutable characteristic.

Not at all the same thing and you should be embarrassed to have even tried such a poor argument. There is no discrimination based on race, religion, sex or sexual orientation in the pot laws.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 11:31AM by MJ.

The question I have is:

Why are people DONATING money as opposed to frequenting the business? I'm sure some are from out of town and can't get there, but this way their supporters can support them anonymously vs. being seen in that pizza joint.

Also, replace the words "Gay" with say, "Black" African American", Hispanic", Brown", Mexican", "Asian", "Yellow".

There are white-supremacist churches/religions out there so now those business owners can discriminate against all the non-whites??



My interpretation of the Constitution is that *IF* you open a business to the PUBLIC (get required licensing, etc..) you have signed a social contract with EVERYONE that makes up the PUBLIC.

It is money that is diverted from actual anti-gay political fights.

Lawmaker see that many big businesses are supporting gays and costing Indiana way more in loss of business and jobs without any back lash to those businesses.

While businesses are supporting gays politically with large amounts of money and political clout, the anti-gay faction has to artificially prop up businesses that support their cause.

This is showing politicians just how politically weak the anti-gay forces are.

Making pizza is one thing while catering is another.

If they were to only sell and make the pizzas then they should do it. However I could back them up if they were asked to provide catering. That would be fair. Same thing for making a wedding cake. They can make the cake, but you will have to put the topper on it and pick it up.
Also if you were to ask them to make an erotic cake or write something on it, they should have the right to refuse.
A Jewish deli shouldn't have to make you a ham sandwich, however if they offer ham and refuse to sell it to you then that would be wrong. So I think these things should be dealt with on a case by case in a local small claims court with a small jury. There should be a law because that would just complicate things. The Pizza place should give that money to HR or planned parenthood or to a inner city youth group.

But because it was held outside the shop it is not?


Don't see a valid point here.

Would you say the same thing for blacks? What about jews? Would you say the same thing if you were denied catering because they disagreed with your religious views expressed in a wedding you were attending?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 11:38AM by MJ.

Should a Vegan cater a Texas barbeque? I know, why would a Vegan even have a business like that? but maybe you can see the point. Oh I know, maybe they don't serve cook they just serve to other Vegans. However if they loathe Texans, and refuse to give service based on that, that would be wrong.

Which is completely different subject. Nobody is asking the pizza place to supply anything other than the product they offer.

The people that are wanting a Texas BBQ are not being denied a service THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING OFFERED, they are are being told that the service is not offered to anyone even if a vegetarian asked for it. Thinking that the business has to provide a service that the business does not offer is silly.

Please take a class in basic business law. A business has every right to define what product they want to sell, but that is different than denying the service/product they are in the business of providing to individuals the business does not like.

The Pizza place is refusing to sell pizza, the commodity they are in the business of selling.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2015 12:04PM by MJ.

MJ, I'm not getting in the way of your gay rights. You have the right to be gay. Done.

I just had my child's senior pictures done last weekend through a great photographer. So, I think this follows your 'rules'. Her business is being hired to take pictures for events. If a gay couple wanted her to take pics for their wedding and she refused because she didn't feel comfortable, she is now discriminating. What if she didn't want to take pics of the KKK meeting? What if she didn't want to take pics of redneck-boozing wedding?

"Please take a class in basic business law. A business has every right to define what product they want to sell, but that is different than denying the service/product they are in the business of providing to individuals the business does not like."
I had a customer once I did not like. His language, albeit, not illegal, was not what I wanted around my customers. I kicked him out. I guess I discriminated against him.

My defense is more of privately owned or stock owned businesses - non gov't businesses. I have gay friends and would gladly attend a ceremony for them.

And they really were not refusing individuals. They were refusing an event. Those are two different things.

But if they form a group and have an event, it is OK to discriminate against all the individuals that make up the event.

What a nonsensical argument. The discrimination is the same regardless if it is applied to an individual or event.

So, I guess you would be OK with a caterer refusing to service because they do not agree with your religious views?

Would you feel the same way if you were an exmo in Utah and all the mormon owned businesses refused service to you because you are an exmormon?

They should not be in a PUBLIC accommodation business.

Objecting to the KKK could be "I do not photograph events of groups that promote illegal activities because I do not want to be seen as an accomplice to illegal acts".

My view is simple, I want the same as blacks got in the 60's when "white only" restaurants were outlawed. When you can understand that, you an understand my views on gay rights.

And of course, people always have their wedding feast catered by a small pizza place.

But, they don't, do they?

This is a FAKED UP news story.

What they did was to work out that if someone is a Christian and they are asked to cater an event that would go against their beliefs, then when they decline to provide the service they were pretending to enquire about then take this to the media and create a pretend news story.

This kind of nonsense does not help promote gay rights or any other rights, for that matter.

And in answer to the question as to why people are donating to them and not buying their pizzas, they are not trading at present so that's not an option.

It continues the discussion in a way that gay rights people can confront ignorant points of view. This is not saying the person is ignorant, only the point of view, well informed people can hold ignorant points of view.

This also has taken almost a million dollars our of the hands of the anti-gay advocacy groups.

It also shows that the anti-gay groups have to artificially prop up businesses that support their cause, while big businesses are costing the state millions in investment and jobs. None of the pro gay money is being diverted to artificially prop up pro gay businesses. IT shows where the real power now is.