So here's the rundown: my ex and I have joint custody of our children. We live in AZ and I have the kids every M,Tu, she has them every W, Th, and we alternate weekends. Essentially, a 5-2-2-5 schedule.

I take the kids to school every tuesday and wednesday due to that schedule, and she takes them every thursday and friday mornings. Then, when it's our weekend, we will take them monday to school.

Summer is the same, except no school. So on wednesdays, I want my ex to come by and get the kids (I pick them up on my days) before I go to work, even though they are old enough to be at home, because she is untrustworthy and has stolen from me in the past. She has even used the kids to 'steal', i.e, asking them to grab stuff from my house and then not sending it back with them later.

So, I asked her to please pick up the kids on wednesday mornings before I leave for work at 8am. She responded, "I am not on your schedule and if I cannot do that then I will not. For the time being, unless I inform you otherwise, I will be picking the kids up on wednesdays (which is her day) between 10 and 11. You can give our kids a key and they can lock up."

I should note, that before this, I asked her not to schedule things for the kids on my parenting time, something that she has done on countless occassions. She responded that she can do whatever she wants as their mother and that I can't tell her what to do. Very mature, I know.

I am trying to think of a response that isn't combative, is brief, and straight to the point (like in the BIFF book, if you've read it), but am having a hard time not getting emotional and telling her off. Need help. What I need is simple: for her to come on her day, when she is responsible for the kids, and pick them up before i go to work so I can lock up and make sure she doesn't steal anything. But she responds in her messages that I am bossing her around on her day, even though she is ordering me to keep the kids at MY house and is telling me how to lock up MY house. She basically told me that Wednesdays are hers and she can do whatever she wants on those days, even when the kids are staying at my house, including telling me to keep the kids until she feels like arriving. Does she have anything keeping her from coming early before I go to work? Absolutely nothing; she just wants to sleep in. I don't know if that makes any sense, but she is impossible to work with.

What do you think?

Do you have a formal agreement for child custody that is upheld by family court?

I would consider getting a nanny cam as well as a doorbell cam, if theft is an issue. Just because she's your ex doesn't mean her stealing isn't against the law.

We do have a formal agreement, but no set times. But I am thinking it needs to be modified as this has become a problem.

Amending your formal agreement will make things easier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2019 09:04PM by Devoted Exmo.

mornings. That way you have control of the situation. Keep her away from your house if at all possible. She isn't trustworthy. It is going to take more work on your part, but it is worth it.

If there are things that are all week long, as summer things tend to be, like swimming lessons or swim team, etc., then they are daily and there isn't much you can do about that. It would be difficult to limit them because of the custody schedule, which isn't their problem.

Although I never divorced my ex, this was one of the reasons. He was allowed to see them any time he wanted. He was allowed to come here. I have to admit that I wouldn't allow him to take them around his boyfriend as they basically wanted to get me out of the picture and have a little family of their own. My ex, I have to give him credit here, is he KNEW that I wouldn't let it happen and he didn't fight me and now he is glad he didn't. I didn't ask for child support or alimony. Since that boyfriend, my kids have known every boyfriend he has had and some are still our friends.

But if you want control, you're going to have to do the extra work. In the end, it WILL BE WORTH IT just for the peace. There is no way you are going to be able to convince her otherwise. (I'm a woman.)

It was actually me who made all the sacrifices. My niece lived with me and she says now that her brother is going through a contentious custody case, that I did it the right way. I bent over backwards to do all the work, to allow him to be in my space. I paid for EVERYTHING for them. I'll never regret it. He didn't even help with homework, although I told him far in advance of projects I didn't feel capable of doing and I ended up doing them anyway. Whatever sacrifices you make so there will be peace for your kids even though you feel it is unfair to you, will be worth it. YOUR KIDS ARE WATCHING. They will know who is the good guy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2019 07:27PM by cl2.

I don't mind the kids having things on my days, that's not the issue. The issue is that she will schedule them, without consulting me, on my days and I find out through the kids. Then, if it doesn't work out that I can take them, I am the bad guy. We have a stipulation in our divorce decree that states any extra activities will be discussed prior to relaying that info to the kids.

I knew that you meant that, but it sounds like you have someone who isn't willing to give. She is going to punish you for some reason. Who knows what.

There are some fights we can't win. I'll say it even being female, she's acting like a bitch. I'm not a big fan of women who act like this.

Whether or not women want to be equal, that includes EVERYTHING, not just what they want to be equal in. This goes for divorce and child custody, too.

I'm no expert, but I think it does depend on whether there is a formal agreement (court order) that specifies custody. If so, that's important.

However, although I have a formal agreement with my ex, we don't follow it by mutual agreement.

My only advice is to start with something like, "I'd really like to work with you on finding a solution for this." Then suggest that if she is able to do this, you're willing to modify your schedule to help her meet her needs. I know, puts you in a position to grant her wish now or in the future, but it's classic negotiation technique to try and have a win-win.

If it comes down to it, teach your kids to lock the door when they leave an hour or so after you are gone and she picks them up. No idea if they are old enough but I'm guessing they are. Give them instructions that she isn't to enter the house and tell you if she does.

How about a lock on your bedroom door and putting all the valuables she might covet in the locked bedroom. This would be in addition to the doorbell and nanny cams.

Just because you could prove she 'took' something doesn't mean you can prove she didn't return it, if that turns out to be her defense.

Trying to find some way to work within her stated parameters is a whole lot cheaper than going back to court.

And don't think the kids aren't noticing the difference between the two parenting styles!

jdoubledub Wrote:
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> she just wants to sleep in. I > don't know if that makes any sense, but she is > impossible to work with. > What do you think?

Sounds like bloody hell on earth!

Thanks for the reminder to us who are confirmed bachelors.

This litany describing your situation further confirms our valid decision to avoid the legal roulette games that girls and courts have going nowadays.

Buy a ruggedized safe.

What about dropping the kids off at her place before you go to work?

The trouble with this idea is what happens if she doesn't answer the door. Seriously. Some people are like that. Does he not go into work? Does he drop them back off at home? That's the problem. In a divorce, often the most unreasonable person wins. So it's a tricky path to walk.

She wants the kids to have a key to his house, he should request they have a key to hers, so that they can let themselves in.

jdoubledub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I should note, that before this, I asked her not
> to schedule things for the kids on my parenting
> time, something that she has done on countless
> occassions. She responded that she can do
> whatever she wants as their mother and that I
> can't tell her what to do.

I think your ex is spiteful, petty and vindictive.

I think you're wasting time trying to be rational with her and play nice. You only place nice with people who are willing to play nice.

I think you need to file for a hearing, drag her into court and let a judge remind her the consequences for contempt of court.

Having seen people living through this long term, there is no easy fix. Yes, she's awful, but playing hardball with these types doesn't work as well as you would like.

normdeplume Wrote:

> This litany describing your situation further
> confirms our valid decision to avoid the legal
> roulette games that girls and courts have going
> nowadays.
>


At the risk of being disloyal to my gender, it's really not fair to blame females in general for post-divorce or post-split conflict. While in this case the woman seems clearly to be the impetus of most of the discord, in plenty of other cases the men are the bad-actors.

Going back to court to clarify/specify times might, in the long run, be well worth any attorney's fees and court costs. I also liked Elder Old Dog's suggestion of a locked bedroom door with virtually everything of worth stowed away there when you leave (though you probably don't have time to put kitchen items and other sundry possessions in your bedroom each time your ex is scheduled to appear). Normdeplume's suggestion of a ruggedized safe is also worth considering. Nanny cams and doorbell cams would be useful as well. You can now purchase Wyze Cams at Home Depot, Target, and other stores for prices as low as $25.99.

If you need to bring up the issue of things being "borrowed" in court, by all means do so, especially if you are able to provide video evidence of the "borrowing" You probably don't want to put the kids in the middle of this any more than they already are, however, by instructing THEM to tell their mother not to take anything. The whole divorce and living in two households thing has presumably been hard enough on them already.

It truly seems as though pick-up times need to be specified by the court.

Do you already have an arrangement for childcare on Mondays and Tuesdays? If so, I would tell your ex that if she isn't at your house by a certain time, you will drop the children off at childcare.

Or, make sure that the kids have a key to her place (I've seen even young children carry their house key on a small lanyard around their neck.) Drop them off and tell them to go wake up their mom and report back to you when they do.

I wouldn't expect rational behavior or cooperation from your ex, so you are going to have to work around her. As for activities that she schedules on your time without notification, if you can't do it, you can't do it.

and so they should be able to have a key to her house so they can let themselves in on Wednesday mornings.

As for the fact that some men are just as bad as this woman or worse, several on this board have dealt with bad divorce arrangements and their kids being caught in the middle because of the other parent. I'm sorry, but usually it is the mother and I'm the mother.

Going back to court is just going to make it worse. I see it every day.

My brothers both raised their own sons. My nephew is having a hard time getting to see his kids. His wife is a beast (I saw her at Costco last weekend and you'd have to see her to understand). She just wants money, so wants 100% custody. She has turned her oldest daughter against her dad. She cheated on him throughout the marriage.

My one brother had to take custody when his ex's boyfriend was making him sleep outside alone when he was 5. How's that one?

Even my ex would tell you I didn't act like that. My daughter, even if she fights me on everything else, has thanked me for making sure that they had their father in their life.

Anyone who causes this kind of drama should lose some of the custody and have only weekend visits. Something so simple made out to be this big issue. IF you try to hide things, she will find something else that she is going to take. It is just to punish you. It is not about whatever she is taking. I've got plenty of stories just in my own life experience.

> Anyone who causes this kind of drama should lose
> some of the custody and have only weekend visits.


That probably won't happen, period, but has only a prayer of happening if someone takes the issue to court.

and I didn't point out that MINE was just as bad or worse than you ex is acting.

He gave me no money. I didn't divorce him because I was too messed up and I couldn't handle ONE MORE THING. I was in therapy and the therapist helped me prioritize. If I'd ask for money for the kids like for lunch, he'd complain and say, "I gave them $5 on Monday, isn't that enough?" This would be on Wednesday. $5 for 2 of them? in high school? Getting him to do ANYTHING was impossible. I mowed the lawn in my orthopedic boot after I broke my foot TWICE in one summer. He said it made him look bad if I did that. Well, he didn't come and mow it.

Even his daughter would say to him, "You don't live here anymore. You can leave." He'd come here and start telling us all how to do things and boss us around.

He was extremely abusive to the kids and I--especially me. He and his boyfriend. It was a hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.

My therapist told me to quit EXPECTING ANYTHING FROM HIM. And I did. I also taught the kids to ask him for things they needed rather than me having to. It helped a lot. I quit expecting anything. I still don't expect anything. I have a boyfriend now and he fixes things if my ex doesn't. And that light fixture that needs to be hung in my son's bedroom (it fell months ago, wires hanging out) and I bought a new fixture 2 months ago and he still hasn't hung it. He hates it when my boyfriend does work around the house. Well, he never does it. Then he'll do something like cut down a tree I have in the yard without asking me, kill flowers I've planted.

But living with him now is NOTHING like what he did to me. He's very lucky all of us have anything to do with him at all. IF he ever acts the way he used to, he's gone and he knows it. I'll throw him out. I paid for this house. He pays the bills now, finally. Since I lost my job.

So I KNOW what it is like to deal with a difficult ex. I could write a book. You have NO IDEA. What you are dealing with is small. Just do what it takes FOR YOUR KIDS. It isn't about your ex wife, it is ABOUT YOUR KIDS.

All I can say is I feel sorry for the kids, being passed around like a football.

The primary concern should be the kids, but many turn the whole marriage/divorce into a power struggle, revenge thing. All about ME.

The more people that avoid marriage, the better.

How about signing up the kids at a drop in day care on visitation days. Tell her this will help with whatever her schedule is that day. A couple hours on her pick up day wouldn’t cost much. No switching at your home. Make it clear you are doing her a favor since her life is so busy.