Even though the Church is false, there is still a benefit from going to church. You get to meet people. Young, single people need direction in life. They need to interact with older, more experienced adults. Young people can't do much of this kind of interaction in a singles ward. I missed out on a lot of meaningful relationships I could have had with older adults during my college years. I was looking for a good college major, a good job, some direction in life. It was hard to get these things from other clueless young people. Older adults benefit as well from this kind of social interaction, since they boost their economic worth by being mentors and learning how to give valuable advice.

I wonder how other religions do it. Do they take the youth and ship them off to chapels full of young people, or do they encourage them to attend services with people of all ages?

I think that social interaction in college should be primarily secular. College should stay out of the religion business. If student wards didn't exist, the Mormon Church would have to offer a more appealing environment to attract the youth.

My student ward may have played a part in my disillusionment. Student wards are so much more demeaning than regular wards it's ridiculous. And the missionary program is just an extension of student wards. Both missions and student wards rob people of true community involvement, which is the best thing religion has to offer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2015 08:01PM by behindcurtain.

they can't make a more welcome environment with giving up the whole pet playbook. I can't see RS toning down it's marriage and baby making rhetoric.

I think this is a particularly bad idea. A healthy environment in my mind where people of all ages, genders and marital statuses mingle freely and are exposed to each other. I don't even see why the church came up with this. What possible good could come of it?

Mormonism in general discourages community involvement unless the community is composed of a majority of Mormons. I tried to encourage some of my RS sisters to join with many of my community organizations and they all laughed and said how they were too busy with church and family responsibilities. And anyone who did get involved with community organizations usually could not be relied upon to do their part because anything church or family related would cause them to forget any commitments they had made to other organizations.

On top of that, all the tithing paid to the Mormon church goes right out of the community and into the church coffers in SLC. Utah may benefit but outside of Utah it drains local resources from local communities.

When I was 21, mormon, and divorced, I would have rather went to a ward filled with a variety of people instead of a singles ward.

The singles ward in my area was a room full of misfits. Especially when it came to men. Predators, immature children, and just plain off. I could have went to the local bar and found better husband material. The females seemed to stop maturing at about age 12. I couldn't relate to any of them.

Not that the family ward was any better, but at least there were other people to focus on. There were kids to teach, and mentor, families that I liked and could have bonded with, older women who would have been of great help to me.

I went to the singles ward a couple of times and never went back. I felt like it was more of a mental ward. No thanks. I dated one guy from the singles ward. He was a mess! He died (no fault of his) about a year after I dated him. Dodged that bullet.

My daughter has a friend who is Pentacostal and I overheard her saying to my daughter "What is the point of Mormons having singles' wards? Is their philosophy "keep them captive until they breed" or something?"

I think they are bad for all the reasons madalice said. Although I enjoyed my time in student wards, I found once I graduated, the singles wards were pretty messed up places. Meat markets full of women who would have had more self-esteem elsewhere and guys who thought they were entitled to women way out of their leagues, because the women so outnumbered them. In fairness, I must admit DH and I met in a singles' ward so I like to think their are some daisies growing in the dung heap but I was also very glad to be done with that scene.

CA girl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...there are some daisies growing in the dung
> heap...


Nice turn of phrase, CA girl. If you came up with that one, you've got yourself the hook line for a good country music song!

;-)

For CA Girl:

I'm a daisy from that dung,
The Mormon heap that stung -
A singular sensation,
Who blossomed in that heap.

I am sexy and I'm smart,
with plenty to impart -
I'm not your Cinderella,
Just the daisy you can keep.

Other religions and denominations sometimes do have buildings and/or services specifically meant to serve college students. You have Hillel for Jewish students and Newman Catholic Campus Ministry for Catholic students. There are others as well. I don't think that students are prohibited from going to regular community services if they wish. It's just an option for students who want spiritual fellowship with fellow students.

I think that mentoring can happen under different circumstances. Some universities invite alumni back for mixers with students in order to mentor and network. Some undergraduates also work with the school's alumni association. Fraternities, sororities, and service organizations can also offer opportunities to interact with adult alumni.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Other religions and denominations sometimes do
> have buildings and/or services specifically meant
> to serve college students. You have Hillel for
> Jewish students and Newman Catholic Campus
> Ministry for Catholic students. There are others
> as well. I don't think that students are
> prohibited from going to regular community
> services if they wish. It's just an option for
> students who want spiritual fellowship with fellow
> students.
>
> I think that mentoring can happen under different
> circumstances. Some universities invite alumni
> back for mixers with students in order to mentor
> and network. Some undergraduates also work with
> the school's alumni association. Fraternities,
> sororities, and service organizations can also
> offer opportunities to interact with adult alumni.

The Institute building would seem to serve that purpose. at lDS-owed schools, since the whole thing is one giant church, it would seem unnecessary. I have a cousin who quite the churhc (Hurrah!) who would have remained in the church if he hadn't been forced to be a member of a singles ward. He didn't want to get married until he completed dental school. Girls in the singles ward wouldn't leave him alone despite his not being all that much of a catch in my opinion. I suppose it was the silver lining. He's much easier to tolerate now that he's out of the church.

It may be helpful to remember why they were created in the first place. Back in the Wilkinson days (1950's-60's) Provo college students would swarm the family wards. It was a transient population. The old members didn't like it and demanded that something be done. The bretheren decided to try the college singles ward idea and it worked pretty well at that time for young college students who were living away from home. It eventually expanded into the monstrosity it is today.

The thing that began my exit from the church was not a crisis of faith (I wish we would have had Google back then!) so much as a crisis of community. Our YA Ward was sort of the last straw.

After college, my new ward had no young adults, as they all had either disappeared or were attending the nearest YA ward down near Washington DC. I tried the YA ward once or twice but felt completely out of my league there. The young men and women were so sophisticated and well dressed and TO ME everyone seemed very absorbed in dazzling each other. I felt invisible there too, and had absolutely ZERO hope of being able to fit in there, on top of it being a very long and stressful drive just to get down there. So I retreated to the family ward, feeling very alone and defeated.

Well it turned out that attending a ward without friends was not very faith promoting - it was just a chore. It sounds very shallow to say that, perhaps, but to me it just pointed out how little the GOSPEL of that church meant to me, even though I DID take it seriously, read and studied it, and was always attentive in classes. Actually, I think the "community" is the reason most people go to churches, and I no longer felt like I fit into that community.

My family conveniently moved out of state, at which point I felt free to quit attending. I filled my life with other interests (and a great nomo husband) and have never regretted my decision to leave.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2015 08:36AM by seekyr.

It gets worse when you hit 30 in a YSA.

I live in Chicago. Here, all the women were freaking out, scrambling for a husband before they hit the 3-1. It pissed me off, because I was 30, and was sick of other people making me feel like I was an old hen heading for the slaughterhouse.

A lot of them have married anything that has a TR and resembles a male.

They had just started a "mid-singles" ward. I joked with a mid-single TBM friend: "so that's what they call the slaughterhouse"? I was out by then. But she seemed so sad when she laughed...


I now attend a Methodist church. There are people of all ages there. I went to a women's retreat with them in Saugatuck, Michigan. As I sat around the bonfire drinking wine, I had a conversation with one young lady not quite old enough to have a glass, and a 70-year-old woman.

Mormons have it wrong. Love and friendship is cultivated, not assigned. Same goes for marriages. They'll see better, happier marriages if they take the pressure off people to marry asap, and stop treating marriages like breeding grounds.

It was disastrous for me. I was forced into a singles ward. I knew it was a bad idea from the start. The leaders herded us all up in the valley and stuck us in a ward with hopes that we would breed. I felt particularly bad for the older singles who wanted to also belong in a singles ward. Their fate was doomed to be single, stuck in a family ward to be forever taunted by young families. Today I would be in that situation. Glade I am out.

I also ended up in a singles' ward. I think there were plenty of people who had some mental health issues, but there were a lot of quality people including guys. Most of the normal guys though had mormon "mental health" issues in terms of some I 'dated' (I use that term loosely as they hung out with me endlessly, but very seldom asked me out on a real date), they were looking for a direct revelation from God that this is the person they were supposed to marry. The few guys who I dated who were marriage material didn't get married until after my husband left me. They were in their 50s when they got married.

BUT to go back to my home ward? Are you kidding me? Singles get treated like pariahs in family wards.

Before my ex left, I went inactive for self preservation (for my kids and myself) and I was still believing. When I told my dad how singles are treated, he was speechless. He had no idea. He got married at 19 (no mission and I'm proud of that).

I look around at all the unmarried girls I know in their 30s and they want to be married. There is NOTHING out there for them if they aren't willing to marry outside the lds church. I was the same way, so I can empathize.

Mormonism just isn't a healthy environment in any way-not just singles wards.

behindcurtain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though the Church is false, there is still a
> benefit from going to church.

Uhhhhh , compared to what ???? Sniffing glue ? Being a car crash?

If a person makes the assumption that they will be hit by a train, and uses that as a given, then many other things will suddenly be beneficial instead.

There is a lot of food for thought in this thread. I spent a lot of years in singles wards in Utah Valley. And at the time, I wouldn't have had it any other way.

But reflecting back on it, it WAS a weird situation. Church was really a 'meet' market. It was more about meeting and marrying, than it was about worshiping. There was a lot of hypocrisy, people acting spiritual to impress others, and stuff like that. As I got older, unmarried, it got more and more frustrating, and the childish activities and social games got irritating.

But a family ward would have been worse.

As a never-married adult single in the church, there is no place in the church where you can go and be treated like you are okay living a single life on your own. There is always the feeling like you have failed or been rejected. Church is all about social pressure and social engineering. It's not about the individual.

It would be really nice if single church members could decide for themselves whether to attend regular wards or singles wards, just like how you can attend whatever parish or service you want in normal churches.

imaworkinonit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a lot of food for thought in this thread.
> I spent a lot of years in singles wards in Utah
> Valley. And at the time, I wouldn't have had it
> any other way.
>
> But reflecting back on it, it WAS a weird
> situation. Church was really a 'meet' market. It
> was more about meeting and marrying, than it was
> about worshiping. There was a lot of hypocrisy,
> people acting spiritual to impress others, and
> stuff like that. As I got older, unmarried, it got
> more and more frustrating, and the childish
> activities and social games got irritating.
>
> But a family ward would have been worse.
>
> As a never-married adult single in the church,
> there is no place in the church where you can go
> and be treated like you are okay living a single
> life on your own. There is always the feeling like
> you have failed or been rejected. Church is all
> about social pressure and social engineering. It's
> not about the individual.

Does anyone remember why former poster Deenie was forced out of a ward she could tolerate into one she hated? Wasn't it something about being "too old to be single?" I think she didn't want to be in the family ward and she continued in the singles in spite of being told she could not.

I don't remember why she stopped, but do miss Deenie's posts. All these posts speak so much truth. The bretheren should be aware of all these stories and the troubles singles encounter in a family church. I attended singles ward until I was 29 and then did the family ward just "sacrament meeting thing" for a little while after. It's an ugly circumstance to be approaching an age where your almost old enough to be the new singles parent. or see your cousins who are many years younger marry off in Momo land and your still in perpetual adolescence.

Deenie passed away a few years ago. I can't remember exactly when. I loved her stories. I could relate to her as an older single, but the Mormons made her life especially miserable. I was so happy that she found her way out of the church that never seemed to value her wit, her talents, and her good humor.

If you google exmormon.org and "Deenie" you will bring up some of her old posts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2015 04:08PM by summer.

behindcurtain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even though the Church is false, there is still a
> benefit from going to church. You get to meet
> people. Young, single people need direction in
> life. They need to interact with older, more
> experienced adults.

Perhaps, but...interacting with older adults who are desperately deep in a cult isn't at all beneficial.
Mentoring programs, internships, community groups, etc. -- all provide places to meet with older, more experienced adults without the cult overhead of going to TSCC.

I think some people are confusing a singles ward with a student ward. Like someone else mentioned, other religions have campus ministries, Mormons have institute and student wards. These make sense to me and frankly, are a lot more fun than singles wards.

Student wards are for primarily students under 30. I worked at a university in my early 20s and was welcome at the student ward in CA even though I'd graduated BYU by then because I was young and part of the campus community. And because there wasn't enough young singles for a non-student ward in that community. But it was made up almost entirely of students, grad students etc. I was one of the exceptions.

Singles wards are for people not of college age who have finished college or working and not part of a campus community. These are very different because they aren't part of the school experience but just the Mormon attempt to group singles together so they aren't a problem for family wards and so they will meet, marry and produce tithe-payers. It's usually a very different atmosphere than a student ward for a number of the reasons mentioned above. And because the only way out of a singles ward is to marry or get old. Student wards end, usually, upon graduation.

the mormon meat market

I went to a singles ward when I turned 18 until I left for college. It was ridiculous. Guys hovering over you the entire three hours. But they would rarely actually ask you out. I went on maybe two or three dates. I did become the girlfriend of a lovely guy for a month or two though. I don't remember if we actually went on dates or just snuggled during sacraments for a few weeks. And I don't remember why it ended either.

I went to college and shortly became pregnant because I had no idea how to handle all my newfound freedom. As well as growing up in an emotionally barren household, I started to believe that physical affection meant someone loved me. So I had my daughter and after my one year of school, I attended the singles ward again at my brother's urging. But it was vastly different. I was now "used goods" and not worthy of attention beyond tenuous friendship. And I was actually told this by a guy I was mildly interested in. We were great friends, but him telling me that I was basically no better than a whore threw a good bit of ice water on any romantic feelings I might have had.

I didn't go back often after that. It was too much work finding a sitter for my baby, and my parents loved reminding me how ridiculous I looked attending a singles ward with an illegitimate child at home.

I got a lot of pressure from my local singles ward to attend ( It was a 40 minute drive away). the local family ward was only 15 minutes away. I didn't understand why I should drive 40 minutes to church when I can be in church in 15 minutes. Especially when gas was 4.00 a gallon. My family ward really loved me and enjoyed having me. I was pretty popular in my ward. It was only the people who were managing the singles ward who were pissed I was not going. There was a huge maturity difference between me and the ysa because I was in my mid-twenties. None of them wanted to dance with me when I was at the dances either.

Sorry - idiot nevermo question. What happens if you don't go to where you are assigned? Do they call the police? Take your temple recommend? Talk behind your back? Is it an excommunicable offense?

Of all the crazy control stuff (not least of which are garments), the assigned time to show up to church and which group you belong to is mind-boggling to me.

We usually go to mass at 11. If we want to go on a picnic, we go at 7, or 9, or the night before. We can go to a different parish if we want. Sometimes we oversleep. No one checks.

Yes, other faith traditions have student groups or even services. But if I want to go 6pm teen mass, I can go. I think the difference is other churches/synagouges/etc. are focusing on worshipping God, and mormon singles wards are about pairing off to start down the path to becoming a god.

I actually thought singles wards were one of the few good ideas the church had. Sure, it had its problems, but it was a nice way to make friends, do activities and find like-minded people to date.

After my divorce, I moved to NC. Eventually I started attending church as an excommunicated member and the single adult activities. I fell into the over 30 group, being 35 at the time. It was a meat market. I was hit on (rather suggestively many times, surprisingly to me) by women 60 years old and older!

As a 35 year old, I decided to quit the LDS singles scene.

COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE!!!

Everyone in most societies, including others, gather within the same age group. One reason most people don't go to church is that it's for old people. Especially if they're from a mainline denomination.

The only church I attended regularly was a mainline denomination church in a college town. That church had probably one older couple, the rest were college students, in a town known for its alcohol-fueled riots. In face shortly after I visited a church in another college town with "University" in its name, but found out it was all older people, and gave up.

Like it or not LDS Inc. is probably the only Christ-connected church with a purpose for getting young singles together. Are they that awful for merely suggesting marriage is a sacrament. Yes, they screw it up with their cult habits, their greed, and their doctrinal oddities, all of that. But why isn't there ANY other respected church, with no cult tendencies, with full-fledged singles ministries dedicated to getting people together.

Presbyterians? Nope.
Lutherans? Uh uh.
Catholic dioceses? Forget it.
Methodists? Are you kidding?

Megachurches tend to attract people of all ages, yet there doesn't seem to be any that is truly identical to the Singles Ward approach. I can't see why they can't do so, if they believe marriage is a sacrament. It's these unique things that cause people to investigate the LDS cult. The respected churches sit on their hands and knees and do nothing!

> "I could have went to the local bar and found better husband material."

Yeah, and he's likely to be an alcoholic, abusive, an obnoxious jerk, ugly, or all of that. Understand where I come from the only place to meet single people is in bars, and you have to drink alcohol to be accepted. Those simply looking for a moral-minded partner might join a crazy fundamentalist sect (and I despise Bible-kissers) or register online for one of those dating sites which nobody uses because everyone thinks everyone registered there is a creep or pedophile, without ever meeting them to make sure. By the same token we can't even say "hi" to strangers nowadays, they might think we're up to something and call the cops!

Yes LD$ is an obnoxious cult but they have almost all the other churches beat when it comes to things most people are deep-down looking for. Are they that bad for insisting its members don't smoke or drink? I understand most newer self-proclaimed "non-denominational" churches, including the megachurches, have few I any members who smoke or drink. That's why lots of young families join them. So what about those who want families but don't have them yet?

Pardon but it really burns my ass when people suggest bars are the place to meet people. You don't understand how drunk driving has become such an epidemic in our land. Where I am, every one it seems drinks and participated in the "party culture" when they were in college, and all of them talk loudly, some of them swearing casually, dressed sloppy, with poor attitudes (usually complaining about this or that) and most of all, very judgmental. The only ones who aren't are LD$ members, and the small numbers of those who attended born-again churches that advocate things like killing abortion doctors and demanding Obama be impeached. I'm absolutely serious.

Besides the cult tendencies, having separate YSA and 30+ groups does not make sense. But what's wrong with attending a church with someone near your age with the same goals and aspirations if that makes you more comfortable?

They are a terrible idea!

Incubation

Isolation

Immature societies

ONE (singles) event is all it takes to alarm you to the ultimate problems and ridiculous presumptions in seperating the families from the "would-be" families.