When I went to BYU, I wanted to major in math. I was good at math in high school, and I was not prepared for the problems I would encounter at BYU. To get a math degree, you have to pass Physics 122. I failed that class! I also took and dropped one calculus class twice because I didn't understand it. I got a C in another math class. I got a C in one statistics class, and a C- in an accounting class. This was in 1991-1993.

A counselor I spoke with said that Physics 122 was designed to weed people out on purpose. Someone I know got a D+ in it and someone else I know said he took the class at UVU (then UVSC) and that it was hard, but "it won't kill you".

Because of my academic struggles my dad sent me to a Mormon psychologist, which really screwed things up.

Now I am 46, and wondering whether I should try for a math degree again. I wonder if I would be able to pass Physics 122 at UVU if I went there. Maybe I can find a school that does not weed people out like BYU does.

People blame Americans for geting too many liberal arts degrees and not enough math/science degrees. I see their point, but in my case, it was not that I didn't want a math/science degree, it was that I could not get one.

I'm quite intelligent, and if I tried again maybe I would succeed. Maybe BYU really is a brutal, cutthroat university that likes to weed people out, and maybe other universities are more humane.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2015 08:16PM by behindcurtain.

x = ( -b +/- sqrt( b^2 - (4*a*c) ) ) / (2*a)

s = (vi*Δt) + (a*Δt^2/2)

vf = sqrt (2*a*s + vi^2)

K = (m*v^2)/2

p = m*v

ΣF = dp/dt -> F = d(mv)/dt -> F = m*a

Fg = G * (M*m)/r^2

θ = s/r

F = k*x^2 + b*x +

T = I*α

Fc = (m*v^2) / r

F = -k*x

T = 2*π sqrt(m/k)



I'm an astronomer/physicist. Once you understand the basic concepts it's not as hard as you think :)

I think that it might not be uncommon for programs to front-load their required coursework with a difficult class. When I did my masters degree in the late 90s there was definitely one course that you gernerally took in the first semester that was harder than any of the other ones in program.

I'm currently doing an online Computer Science degree and there is a discrete mathematics course that I am not looking forward to. I alredy dropped it once. Trying to remember mathematical concepts I learned 20 years ago is really hard. I think there might be a similar intent in my current program.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2015 08:49PM by cthlos.

I recommend doing practice problems on a regular basis to get "in shape" before you go back to school and do it for real.

Yep...heard these same rumors and opted to take two classes at UVCC after getting a D out of a math class. Yes...hated that BYU graded on a curve. Still managed to graduate with a 3.7 average, but it took me an extra semester because I had to cut back on hours.

Follow your heart. There are so many online tutorials to help you if you get stuck. :)

I'm not familiar with the requirements for a math degree, but I would look at different programs. Perhaps there are some that do not require a physics class. One of the things that attracted me to my very fine alma mater is that I did not have to take any math classes to get my liberal arts B.A. (I was able to take science classes to fulfil area requirements instead.)

Another thing to keep in mind is that you will be coming back to school with a more mature outlook. My GPA went way up from my undergraduate years to my graduate level work some years later. The same was true for my brother.

Beyond that you will need to do a cost/benefit analysis. What do you hope to get out of a math degree? College is an expensive proposition these days. Make sure that you are comfortable with the costs (in both time and money) along with the potential benefits.

UVU is becoming more academically rigorous (I have a BS from BYU and a Master's from UVU).

I'd say take an online course first, and see if you can pass that. UVU tuition, while still cheap, is an expensive way to find out 20+ years after graduating if you have what it takes.

I don't think BYU is alone in this. The USU engineering dept in the 70's had a policy that if you failed ANY class twice you were out. I actually begged my differential equations teacher to not fail me (most in class did fail). I got a D I think.

For me physics was easy, calculus not bad, but diff equations....

Looking back, the most important thing I got out of those 5 years was the knowledge that I could do almost anything I wanted if I tried hard enough, and spending 4-5 hours a day on math homework alone plus other classes was hard. I don't know that I'd do it again as it took a toll on the family.

Physics 121 & 122 at BYU were just that - classes designed to cull.

As were their equivalent chemistry and calculus courses.

They were grueling, to put it mildly (back in the late 80s).

I would be happy to do it again - but single - and without kids.

Those were tough times (wife, 2 kids, full time job, full time school).



What I tell kids today about college: It teaches one to think, rationalize, problem-solve, comprehend, persevere.

It's not the actual ability to integrate or differentiate 100s of different equations. It's not the ability to derive ampere's law. It's not the ability to understand valence electrons, and where they fit.

It's the ability to think. Logically.



If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would probably spend the rest of my life in college. And not just STEM classes.

Learning new ideas is just cool.

But that's just me.



To the OP: If you want to go back, go back. Take one class per semester if you have to, until you get into the "groove". And if you're not happy with your grade at the end of the semester, retake the class next semester.

If a dummy like me can do it, I'll bet you can too.

Many years ago I was a TA for Physics 122 (and others) at BYU. It was difficult for most students, but absolutely necessary for people wanting a Physics or Engineering degree. It would be somewhat arbitrary for a degree in Pure Mathematics, but would be necessary for Applied Mathematics. The texts for this course used to be pretty standard across the country, so I think there would be few options for a shortcut at a reputable university.

Pure mathematics takes you to places that makes physics 121/122 look simplistic. Like 'number theory'. Luckily most of the sciences are pretty applied and there are many paths that do not require a deep dive past physics 121/122 and first year calculus. My first year as an engineering student at BYU 'arrived at the crash site'. But after a non-mission hiatus my mind seemed to settle in and click when I went back.

I have a math degree.

The math you do in high school is not the same as the math you
do for a math degree. In high school you crank out answers to
simple problems. For a math degree you have to PROVE stuff.

If you had trouble understanding calculus, then analysis and
topology will flummox you.

I'd check out other course requirements for other universities. It isn't too late to go back at 45, but it might not be as easy as when you were younger by virtue of the other responsibilities you've taken on since then.

I somehow got through undergraduate and graduate school without a single math requirement. That was because of the schools I went to, and my majors at the time. My sciences were only electives, so I didn't buck up on any of the hard sciences, because I was a liberal arts major.

In contrast, my children had very difficult subjects through high school and then college for both math and sciences. They were schooled in New York, I was schooled in Idaho. Different states, different requirements. That may have changed since then, not really sure.

My wife has an undergraduate math degree. I had to take several math courses in my microbiology major, but I wasn't a math major. My wife doesn't believe most math courses are harder than their counterparts at UVU (she took a couple of courses there when she was working on her master's), though the overall course of study might be more feasible at a campus that's not using a particular course as a gatekeeper to an entire program.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2015 02:04AM by scmd.

I have a PhD in Physics. I bet I'd fail Physics 122. Ha ha ha

Follow your heart and go for it. Perseverance is what will get you through.

I have a PhD in Physics as well. Physics 122 is probably not quite as advanced as first year Electricity and Magnetism in the UK. But in the UK you have already had four years of Physics at O and A level before that. For many US students (at least when I was teaching) this was their first significant Physics education. And it was a shock.

Benvolio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a PhD in Physics as well. Physics 122 is
> probably not quite as advanced as first year
> Electricity and Magnetism in the UK. But in the UK
> you have already had four years of Physics at O
> and A level before that. For many US students (at
> least when I was teaching) this was their first
> significant Physics education. And it was a shock.

Yes, spot on in your observation. I'd been enjoying physics in high school since I was about 12 years old.

The school systems in the US and the UK are pretty different in their approaches. My kids have had to transition from the UK system to the US system about half way through high school. It wasn't easy for them, even though they are bright.

Take a look at https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics

I enjoy learning and doing math and science without the pressure of a grade

There are three kinds of people in the world, those who understand Math and those who don't.

THAT is funny.

For anyone interested, MIT now has all course curriculum free
on-line.

Here's the link: http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm#

If you can complete physics through MIT you can do anything!

I say give it a shot, do your prep work and go to a different school. I have a science degree from BYU and I felt like I had been mauled by the time I graduated (I barely graduated). I later went through 2 other grad programs with people from all over the country and was always in the top 10%.

I'm 41 and returned to school last year after taking twenty years off. I can't believe how much easier school is for me now. I feel like I have a work ethic, critical thinking skills and life experience that 20-year olds just don't have. I'm acing all of my classes, and am thoroughly enjoying my science and math classes.

I'd say do it. Start with just one or two classes and see what happened.

My mind was totally screwed up when I was trying to do my college studies, and let me be perfectly clear about this. That time of life is difficult any way. Being a MORmON makes it substantially more stressful and more difficult. Being at BYU / Ricks makes it more difficult yet, with the additional concerns of serving a mission, paying tithing, finding a suitable eternal mate, properly preparing for Jesus to return, it turns the issue into a mind fuck that is basically incomprehensible, about like wiring the processor of your computer directly into a 220 volt AC line. I really don't know how I passed any classes at BYU / Ricks given all that I was really trying to cope with to make the MORmON world go around.

I worked for a couple of years between undergrad and grad school and I think that it helped in grad school. I suspect that you'll be fine in "Physics 122."

But I think that most schools have weed out classes in the tougher engineering and science majors.

There was definitely a weed out process at the "U" in engineering and the sciences. The freshman to senior attrition rate in my major was about 80%.

Did you finish a degree at all?
If that's the case, you very likely won't have to take any physics classes to get another (or advanced) degree in mathematics.

You might also look at some other institutions; I got BS degrees in computer science and electrical engineering, and went on to get a master's degree in mathematics. At Cal State. I had to satisfy the general ed "science" requirement, but it didn't have to be satisfied with a physics course (in fact, I took evolutionary biology for my requirement). All my other science courses were degree-related. I *did* take a specialty electronics physics course (solid state physics) for the EE degree, but if I'd stuck with just computer science or a math BS degree, I wouldn't have taken any more physics.

If you can, on your own or with the help of a friend or tutor, master basic calculus (limits, differentiation, derivatives), you can probably pass any physics (or calculus) course. Not saying it will be *easy,* but you can do it :)
Good luck.

I spent some time thinking I was going to be some type of engineer. The classes I took were fascinating, but it didn't take long for me to figure out that if I somehow did manage to get through it all I'd be the guy in the office sharpening pencils.

Have you been doing much math on your own? Calculus was actually invented to solve physics problems. It's kind of dumb how universities throw students into physics before teaching them the tools. They do rote work with cookbook equations instead of applying higher math to first principles. Well, it's either dumb or cruel when used as a weed whacker.

I got through w difficult math class (for me) with a tutor.