This will be my first post on this forum...

I am nevermo, engaged to a man who stopped attending the LDS church some time in high school. He is from a very large midwestern LDS family. He stopped attending church not out of dislike for the LDS church itself, but out of dislike for organized religion in general. The whole family has treated me well and been accepting of me despite the fact I am not a part of their church and never will be.

I found out last week that, because my guy simply lost interest in religion and drifted away, he is still in the LDS church's books as an inactive member. It turns out that somebody has kept the church abreast of his address changes through the years.

Given that he's still officially a member, I wonder if the church will also learn of our future children's births. If it does, will we be contacted by the church or by missionaries interested in teaching/counseling our kids? I have no problem with my children learning about religion. I believe that will be complex and difficult enough for us as parents; any organization like the LDS church trying to nose itself in would be SO unwelcome. Like I said, his family has been kind to me and I love them all. I just don't trust the /organization/ with my children.

I am hoping somebody out there has been in a similar situation. Am I being paranoid thinking my husband being an inactive member would provoke unwanted contact from the church when we have children? Should he formally resign? He feels he has no reason to do so since he's already independent of the church. I feel he might as well make that official and put it down on on paper.

If The Cult finds out about the birth of your children, they will make every effort to get their clutches on them.

his family will try to suck them in. The church has gotten his address changes from family who's provided it when they call to inquire about where he's living.

My family has tried to get my son indoctrinated and baptized. Fortunately my son is very logical and eventually able to see through all the bs and reject religion altogether. He expresses no interest in it at all now and my parents no longer try to pull him in. (He's 9 years old.)

Your husband's decision to resign should be his own. His family trying to convert your children will happen regardless if he's a member or not.

In other words, his resignation would accomplish nothing as far as our kids are concerned? I guess I was hoping that would prevent someone from the church showing up and, I don't know, inviting me to help teach my kids where they came from. Stuff like that.

When I asked my guy why he doesn't just resign, I did sense that it's a personal decision I shouldn't try to force. God knows what he's already been through with his family's struggle to come to terms that he won't be there in the Celestial Kingdom. If his resignation needlessly opened those old wounds, I don't know why he should bother to do it. However, if it prevented the church from coming after my kids, then I /would/ consider revisiting the issue.

Seems clear from the two responses I've gotten that I should be most concerned with the family. I appreciate your responses. I come from a fairly religious evangelical family and I /know/ that from my parents, our kids will get little picture books about Noah's Ark, etc. I appreciate traditional Bible stories for their ability to teach kids basic right and wrong. HOWEVER, if my kids receive books, magazines, etc. that teach them the only way to be with their mommy and daddy forever is to join the LDS church, I feel that's more insiduous, more dangerous, and I intend to keep my kids far, far AWAY from that.

Are you sure your fiance is definitely out of Mormonism? Once you have kids, there will likely be a big push by his family to get him reactivated, as well as converting you, and getting your children blessed and later baptized. If he isn't willing to stand up to his family now, how is he going to react when that starts?

I'm sure he's out of Mormonism. He can appreciate religion for its ability to teach basic morals, and he sees it from a sort of anthropological standpoint, as something man created to explain the unexplainable. He won't let me down in that area.

I bet it took more cojones to stand up to his family when he was a teen still living under his parents' roof than it would take now, as an adult, to finalize the paperwork.

But, Gumby, you've highlighted why I'd have him resign if I could have it my way. There's no better way to send the clear message that he's starting a family and it won't be LDS than to write the letter and formally resign.

I think I made it clear to his parents right off the bat that I have already made a well-informed decision to abandon organized religion. I love my inlaws but will definitely take to heart these warnings that they'll want me to join their church anyway.

I think it's a little easier to stay off the radar if you never have your children blessed in an LDS ceremony, but even they never set foot in a chapel they tend to become targets for missionaries looking for the 'low hanging fruit'. That goes double if they have TBM grandparents.

DH and I resigned because of this, even though his siblings are mostly inactive and to my knowledge none of them have had unwanted attention directed toward their children. We decided that it was better safe than sorry.

local members will try to visit him.

Yes, they will probably try to involve the rest of your family.

The only way your children could/would get involved is if you let them.

The only way your children could become members of record is if you and your husband agreed, and provided the information.

Having your husband resign would certainly solve the problem. But if that isn't probable, the worst I'd worry about is annoying visits where you just say "no, thanks."

and the church no longer counts them as members if they're not baptized by age 9 (this policy occurred because one can readily compare the number of births/blessings and child-of-record baptisms eight years later and see the embarrassing gap).
You have little to worry about.
The church can only put your children "on record" if you have them blessed at church, which you apparently don't intend to do.

I have to admit I don't know much about "blessings."

That's where priesthood holders lay their hands on the kid and "bless" the kids with blessings supposedly straight from God? Yes?

Heck NO, that won't happen! Not if that's the way the LDs church gets its "foot in the door."

Unfortunately, the key to getting their money is to indoctrinate them at the youngest possible age. I'd worry more about the active family members bugging them to go to church and you to let them, and hubby possibly wanting to go back some day.

Then again, who doesn't have a couple of nutty relatives.

:-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2010 06:37PM by munchybotaz.

Nothing wrong with nutty family members... as long as they're a couple states away :)

He should resign if he is no longer interested in the church. His family will try to activate him again since he is serious with you. Then the having kids things comes into the picture. It happened that way with my daugther, a convert. She married a Jackmormon and his family got him reactivated just after they married civilly. It has crushed me since they pushed her to convert -so the whole family could be sealed. Yeah, right. They love fairytales. I would have a serious discussion with how his being on just an inactive list will impact YOU and future kids.

When I was on my mission the church targeted long inactive part member families after the birth of a child, this was a successful way to get converts. They will try to preach to you after you have kids , just be firm in your no.

And once they can ensnare your kids, they will use them to get you too. They will work on the kids to show by their good example that they can be pioneering missionaries for their own family. Heavenly Father will be so pleased if mommy and daddy started coming to church.

Mommy and daddy love you, and they want to be happy like you are, so try to show them you love them and ask if they will bring you to church.

Seen it.

As long as a member is on their roster, they are part of the church membership and subject to contact.

This is not just another church. I have described it (as I experienced it as a young adult convert) as a: generational, cultural, religious, traditional, familial, social tribe as that is how it functions. It doesn't just function in this life, they believe it functions in an after life. This is important as it's the basis,core for the strong connections.

Putting that into context, that means that once a member, always a member. Leaving, or not attending does not remove their connection to the individual, especially if the family is active believing LDS.

The only way to stop contact as a member is to remove the member's name from their active rolls. That can be done by resigning their membership. Short of that, it's open season!

Typically, when children arrive the familial pressure to resume traditional ordinances, etc, (blessings, baptism, etc.) become so intense, the member succumbs and changes their mind about any prior ideas or commitments.

My suggestion is to be very, very clear before getting married, about what will happen in the marriage regarding the LDS Church, and children.
Some prefer to resign, others do not.
It's a very difficult decision for many as it means they are, in essence: they are leaving their tribe, and their place in the family.

That is exactly what I fear - our children providing the family with a fresh opportunity to apply pressure to rejoin the church. My fiance's family has done the best it can to accept that he has left the church. They did it long before I came into his life and I can't stress enough how hard they have tried to make me feel accepted. Still, it doesn't matter if they are loving, accepting people because based on my understanding of their church, it would be their /duty/ as Mormons to attempt to get us into the church by way of our children.

He does not understand why I would worry about his membership in the LDS church. I see it the way you do, Susie - it is not just a church!! He seems to believe that the scenario I'm afraid of is unique to Utah Mormons, and that it won't happen in his family.

I can't make his decision to resign for him. But if anyone bothers us after our children are born, he's got to do it. I feel that if he resigns then, his family will feel like it's punishment for them reaching out to their grandchildren, and I don't want that at all. I want my kids to know both sets of grandparents! Maybe it would be better to do it beforehand to pre-empt church members coming to try to persuade him to go back to church. It would still hurt his family but would send the clear message that it's his family and he'll be raising his family on HIS terms.

While I don't see eye to eye with him on everything now, I think we have the more important parts taken care of. He's not going back to the LDS church. We aren't the religious kind of people. Our kids will not have blessings in any church.

Then again, he thinks I'm unfair to the LDS church.

I'd still like people's thoughts on my fiance's claim that the high-pressure, meddling type of Mormons can only be found in Utah. I do not buy it.

However, the number is smaller, I think, anyhow, outside the high percentage Mormon communities where that culture is dominant.

My concern is about your fiance thinking you are unfair to the LDS Church. That shows me, that it's his inbred culture and that won't go away.

In your case, from what you have shared, I'd be very cautious.
You may be opening up Pandora's Box.

Don't I know it. I never saw this coming. It's been hard enough trying like crazy to figure out what the LDS church is about all on my own, then after forming my opinion of it based on SO MANY obvious factors, being treated like I'm paranoid, unfair, that I have arrived at an erroneous conclusion based on misinformation. I believe he just decides not to dwell on it because it's his family and he loves them VERY much. I do feel pretty much alone here.

/emo

juniper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I can't make his decision to resign for him.

> While I don't see eye to eye with him on
> everything now, I think we have the more important
> parts taken care of. He's not going back to the
> LDS church. We aren't the religious kind of
> people. Our kids will not have blessings in any
> church.
>
> Then again, he thinks I'm unfair to the LDS
> church.


Juniper, this is how I see it. . . .

This is not about fair or unfair...He can choose to not resign. Yes that is clearly his choice, not yours.

You can choose not to marry him unless he resigns before the marriage, or even the engagement, and that is clearly your choice, not his.

If his love for you is greater than the need to stay in LDS that will make this easy.

If his need to stay LDS is greater than his love for you, better to find that out before you marry,than after you are married with children

If he is staying LDS not to rock the boat with his parents, after there are children in his marriage, is he going to comply with his parents wishes concerning their grandchildren's religious indoctrination, not to rock the boat?

If he can't stand up to them now, what makes you think he will be able to stand up to them later?

WEll said lamedandy. I agree with you.

very well said. I am personally uneasy about dating inactive mormons who feel no need to formally resign.

That is not true...it isn't the state of Utah....it is the individuals. My daughter was okay while here in my state... she married civilly to a Mormon. Then she went to live in Idaho. His whole family was there.....pressure indeed was put on her- no doubt about it. She converted after three yrs. It is the people who pressure someone....not the place where they reside that has more influence.

If he thinks you are unfair to the LDS church you have problem #1 right there staring you in the face.

My exs family loved me...they were great people, I was not LDS, but I was told my ex would go back to his religion which he really didn't practice when we had children...and yes he did...he wanted me to convert and he wanted the children in the LDS church..he got none of the above and we are divorced...the pressure was hideous and from his family most of all...our children are Catholic now and I know this bothers him immensely..oh well.

Be very careful and get it in writing...I'm not kidding it happened to me.

stormy

Getting married to a nevermo was my motivation for finally formally resigning. It's the only way to stop the uninvited visits from members, missionaries, etc. And it's all that's within my control that I can do to make sure they don't end up on some church list in the future. I would encourage your fiance to formally resign from the church ASAP.

I didn't agree to marry a Mormon. I agreed to marry /him/. A response like yours helps me feel like I'm not crazy for being unnerved that he's still a member (even if it's just on paper). Seriously, thanks.

Yes you did agree to marry a Mormon because he is a Mormon..you thought just what I thought...it won't happen to me...well it did..he isn't ready to let go being a Mormon even if he says he is...facts.

stormy

with any mormon kids because they will bring all sorts of crap to public school to try and get your kid to come home and talk you into taking them to church. One of the ward members tried this on my kid and I went straight to the teacher and told her she if she didn't call the parents to tell them to stop I would have the principal do it.

It stopped, and I heard about it from my parents. LOL

They never stop trying--no matter who you are.

My boyfriend's ancestors were mormon. His father is very protective of any of his children's addresses, etc., being learned by his mormon relatives. The missionaries are sent to his father every now and then by his mormon relatives. This is several generations after his great grandfather left the church.

So--the fact that your fiance is/was mormon--it won't matter if he resigns, they will come looking eventually. If they don't, his family probably will.

"being treated like I'm paranoid, unfair, that I have arrived at an erroneous conclusion based on misinformation.

This is a real concern, to me.
It's about a lack of trust and respect for your intellect.
Not a good basis for a marriage, in my opinion.

I'd think long and hard about getting married. I'm not so sure this is a good match for you.

He just thinks all religions are weird while I see different degrees of weird. Elevation to godhood, secret names, secret handshakes, magic undies, clergy quizzing 12-year-olds about their masturbation habits (SERIOUSLY?) - that's just not your average Christian church.

I am hoping that after our conversation tonight he grasps how important this is to me. If he won't sever a vestigial relationship with the church that now exists only on paper to protect his family, then he can marry his family...

try to pull DH and the kids back in if the can. Hell, they'll try to get you too. On my mission part-member families were considered fertile ground for conversion

It's all pretty easily remedied though if DH would resign. If not I would I would have a long talk about what each of you expects and how you will raise the kids as far as religion goes.

That said, know that despite all the talking done now, things can and often do change. DH may want to go back to the fold and/or have the kids raised LDS at some point. Are you OK with that?

When I married I was a believing Mormon and DW and I were on the same page about Mo-ism. 18+ years later I no longer believe and want to teach the kids a more open view of the world. It has caused some serious friction.

Stuff can get tricky. Good luck.

For example, I know for sure that minors under 18 cannot be baptized without both parents' consent. You can also threaten missies with legal action if they continue to come to your house after you clearly tell them not to. Of course, the law cannot stop your husband's family from being who they are, which will likely involve attempts to indoctrinate your children.

I know numerous cases of families with one nevermo and one inactive and they've never even been contacted. Yes many do get contacted at some point but the relentless harassment that you read about on these message boards is not necessarily the norm in all areas/families.
I have a family member who left TSCC as a young teenager and has three children and is married to a nevermo and they've never once been contacted by anyone. I have another family member who along with her husband took all their kids and left TSCC WITHOUT RESIGNING MEMBERSHIP, and a simple request to the bishop to leave them alone has been sufficient (three years so far) I myself have not been to church for many years (maybe six years?) and have not even once been contacted by anyone.

Please don't let this become a major point of stress with you.. Pretty much even if you did become a target, a few stern words and they'll back right off and focus on someone else.. they only really turn up the juice if you show some interest

One other thing I wanted to comment on is the possibliby of your husband returning to the fold.... There is a HUGE difference between someone like your future husband who does not believe in religion and sees it as a bunch of old men who make up stories in order to control people and somone who just sort of "took a break" and stopped attending without ever having any beliefs AGAINST religion or TSCC....If your husband was the sort who just sort of stopped going to church and didn't really know why, I'd say he was at great risk of returning.. but it sounds like his bullshit detector works just fine and I'm guessing that there's not much anyone can say to make him return.

best wishes to you in your future.

working fine for TSCC but, just remember his parents/family still think he/you/grandkids will NOT be with them for eternity, much less in the Celestial Kingdom [really sick huh?], so they might *work* on him once you get married/have kids. I would really make plans about how you will raise your kids.

Don't let TSCC scare you. It is just an organization ultimately looking for your money, and to get it, you have to join the club and play the game. Just say NO.

I wish you both joy and happiness!!!