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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 12:15PM

Would you find the Defendant, guilty or not guilty, of the charges of:

1) Philanderer, adulterer, bigamist, polygamist, pedophile

2) Pious fraud and running a pyramid scheme (including his years as a treasure seeker prior to ordaining himself a prophet)

3) Murder, or conspiracy to commit murder

4) Money laundering, Tax evasion (I know, I know there was not an income tax then. But there is today. You can bet your bottom dollar he would've evaded his taxes, so that's just a hypothetical to be added to the things we know he did..)

5) Child support arrears; Alimony or Palimony (depending on the state of jurisdiction)

6) Interstate flight; and crossing state lines to perpetuate fraud

7) Rioting, destruction of the press (from Wiki: "On May 23, [1844, William] Law obtained a grand jury indictment against Smith on the charge of polygamy from the Hancock County Circuit Court. Law swore that Smith had been living with Maria Lawrence "in an open state of adultery" since October 12, 1843.

The Expositor was planned as an exposé of church practices which Law and his associates opposed...."

8) Secession from the Union; treason against Illinois (from Wiki: "After the defendants were granted bail on the riot charge, Justice R. F. Smith heard testimony from Augustine Spencer and issued a writ for the arrest of Joseph and Hyrum Smith on the charge of treason against Illinois. The Smiths were placed under arrest....")


If you'd like to add any other charges, please feel free to do so. And why you find him guilty or not of any of the charges. And what his defenses would be, if he were here today to stand trial....

Carry on! Then we can move to the sentencing phase if found guilty. ;)

If Joseph were here today to answer to these charges, I wonder if he'd stick around? He'd likely be wearing an ankle bracelet while awaiting his court dates, and his offshore accounts would be waiting if he had a good enough defense to get him off the hook. Or, the federal pen would be his home for the next umpteen years, if he were attempting to do today what he was doing back then.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2015 01:15PM by amyjo.

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Posted by: Chump ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 12:29PM

Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty! Treason? Guilty! Death penalty? Yes, please...though that seems too kind.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 12:44PM

Right?!

Sadly, that was his sentence by a vigilante court, jury, and executioner.

Without due process. He paid heavily for his crimes against society.

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Posted by: SuperDell ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 12:45PM

Many of these are not crimes.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 01:17PM

I counted 14 out of 18 that are. I'm sure I left something out, but tried to cover as many as I could.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 12:47PM

Hang the fucker!!

RB

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 01:18PM

That would be too little too late.

Consider Warren Jeff. He conspired along the same lines as ole Joe Smith, and now rots in federal penitentiary at taxpayer expense.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 01:31PM

I would have to recuse myself due to conflict of hatred.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 01:56PM

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have to recuse myself due to conflict of
> hatred.
_______________________________

It would be hard to be impartial on this one, that's for sure.

:D

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Posted by: adoylelb ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 02:36PM

Same for me, I'd have to be excused before the trial started because I could never be impartial.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2015 02:36PM by adoylelb.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 02:17PM

amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would you find the Defendant, guilty or not
> guilty, of the charges of:
>
> 1) Philanderer, adulterer, bigamist, polygamist,
> pedophile

More than ample evidence supports "guilty" on all those charges.


> 2) Pious fraud and running a pyramid scheme
> (including his years as a treasure seeker prior to
> ordaining himself a prophet)

"Pious fraud" would be nearly impossible to prove -- and while "fraud" is illegal, "pious fraud" isn't. As for pyramid scheme, that would be tough to justify also.

> 3) Murder, or conspiracy to commit murder

If we can specifically link the Danites to him, guilty.


> 4) Money laundering, Tax evasion (I know, I know
> there was not an income tax then. But there is
> today. You can bet your bottom dollar he would've
> evaded his taxes, so that's just a hypothetical to
> be added to the things we know he did..)

Plenty of evidence for guilty on both. And while there was no income tax then, there were still taxes that his sham church avoided.

> 5) Child support arrears; Alimony or Palimony
> (depending on the state of jurisdiction)

Unfortunately, probably not. What it looks like is that he provided for his wives/children until he died, as well as he could.


> 6) Interstate flight; and crossing state lines to
> perpetuate fraud

Clearly guilty; he died with charges pending in 3 states!

> 7) Rioting, destruction of the press (from Wiki:
> "On May 23, [1844, William] Law obtained a grand
> jury indictment against Smith on the charge of
> polygamy from the Hancock County Circuit Court.
> Law swore that Smith had been living with Maria
> Lawrence "in an open state of adultery" since
> October 12, 1843.

Yep.

> 8) Secession from the Union; treason against
> Illinois (from Wiki: "After the defendants were
> granted bail on the riot charge, Justice R. F.
> Smith heard testimony from Augustine Spencer and
> issued a writ for the arrest of Joseph and Hyrum
> Smith on the charge of treason against Illinois.
> The Smiths were placed under arrest....")

Treason against Illinois, yes. Secession from the Union, no.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 03:29PM

Thanks for the feedback.

So the Mormon Militia was only to take up arms against Illinois?

It seemed they took that 'militia' with them when the pioneers headed west to Utah. They were going to form their own state, until the law caught up with them again.

Maybe their own country? But that was of course, after Joseph's demise..

I'm sure if he were heading the Utah expedition, he would've been as up in arms as Young was over that same issue. He just didn't live long enough to be able to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 04:07PM

Town/regional militias were common then. While the Nauvoo Legion was indeed at the beck and call of Smith, there's no record of Smith or anyone else threatening to use it to "secede from the Union," or of doing so. Smith was a candidate for President of the Union, remember...

As for Utah, it's a very interesting and twisted story, with the various militia, the "mormon war," etc. Remember, though, that Utah was *not* part of the "union" at that time., and since Smith was already dead, however, we can't pin any of that on him anyway. Brigham Young is another story...:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2015 04:08PM by ificouldhietokolob.

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Posted by: The Invisible Green Potato ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 07:39AM

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brigham Young is another story...:)

I am going to sit out on the Joseph Smith case so that I can be on the jury for Brigham Young :)

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Posted by: L'Carpetron Dookmarriot ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 04:10PM

I wouldn't be able to be on the jury due to past posession charges. lol !

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 09:45PM


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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 10:03PM

A lot of these things are not actually crimes.

But if I look at the case against him where he was tried in New York for defrauding people by glass-looking, I don't think that one would go far today. You don't have to look any farther than all of the so-called mediums and psychics that we have today.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 10:08PM

I have already made my decision, I would be honest during the Jury selection process, I would not be allowed on the Jury.

Any one that is honest and answers one way or the other would also not be allowed on the Jury.

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Posted by: Mannaz ( )
Date: April 30, 2015 10:26PM

Sentence: disembowelment. It is the 'temple way'

Ripping out of heart or slitting throat would just be to 'quick'.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 05:31AM

The only temple ceremonies I ever endured was the sealing with my family in Oakland, as a child. And again as a teen, doing baptisms for the dead.

I consider myself fortunate that I didn't actually go through one of those god awful endowment ceremonies with that figurative signage, before it stopped in what was it, 1993 or '94?

I'm not surprised it was stopped. I'm appalled it existed at all, and for as long as it did.

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Posted by: The Invisible Green Potato ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 07:51AM

You left out "so-called statutory rape" (reference to Helen Mar Kimball "who was sealed to Joseph several months before her 15th birthday", see https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng , and a 1984 document by Oakes that added the prefix "so-called" to statutory rape, see http://imgur.com/a/zRqAP page 3).

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 09:40AM

Thank you. For young, poor Helen Mar, that was with her own father's blessing. In essence, she was raped by both men. One figuratively, the other literally. They stole her chastity, innocence, and youth. Some father she had, not.

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Posted by: anon4this ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 09:57AM

I have found this about JS online and I liked it so much I had to share.

Smith's moves to seduce other men's wives were so brazen and notorious that they led one distraught husband--Orson Pratt--to attempt suicide in Nauvoo on 15 July 1842:

“Thousands of Nauvoo Mormons search[ed] for Orson Pratt after discovering a suicide note. They find him distraught because Smith, according to Pratt's wife, had tried to seduce Pratt's wife Sarah.”

Not only did Smith have a reputation as a ladies' man, he also had a record of defending friends of his who were sleeping around.

According to the “Minutes of the High Council of the Church of Jesus Christ of Nauvoo Illinois” (6 February 1841), Smith directed “the Nauvoo high council not to excommunicate Theodore Turley for 'sleeping with two females,' requiring him only to confess 'that he had acted unwisely, unjustly, imprudently, and unbecoming.'”

Eventually, Smith's sexual excess caught up with him in court. On 23 March 1844, William Law filed suit against Smith for committing adultery with Smith's foster daughter and plural wife:

“William Law file[d] a formal complaint with the Hancock County [Illinois] circuit court charging Smith was living 'in an open state of adultery' with Maria Lawrence, Smith's foster daughter and polygamous wife. Maria Lawrence was a teenaged orphan who was living in the Smith household. In fact, Smith had secretly married both Maria, age 19, and her sister Sarah, age 17, on 11 May 1843 and was serving as executor of their $8,000 estate.

"William Law apparently hoped that disclosing Smith's relationship with the young girls might lead him to abandon polygamy but Smith immediately excommunicated Law, had himself appointed the girls' legal guardian and rejected the charge in front of a church congregation on 26 May 1844, denying that he had more than one wife.”(Joseph Smith, “History of the Church,” vol. 6, p. 403; and Richard S. Van Wagoner, “Mormon Polygamy: A History,” p. 66)

(all preceding and subsequent citations and quotes are found in “Joseph Smith's Polygamy Chronology,” at:http://www.i4m.com/think/polygamy/JS_Polygamy_Timeline.htm)
___

*Smith and 16-year-old Fanny Alger

Smith's first known sexual affair was with a teenager named Fannie Alger, who was living with Smith and his first wife Emma in their Kirtland, Ohio, home. Fanny was also Smith's first confimred plural wife. Smith “came to know [her] in Kirtland during early 1833 when she, at the age of 16, stayed at his home as a housemaid. Described as 'a very nice and comly young woman,' according to Benjamin Johnson, Fanny lived with the Smith family from 1833 to 1836.”

Fanny eventually became the target of Smith's sexual advances, with Smith's predatory behavior soon becoming the talk of the town:

“Martin Harris, one of the 'Three Witnesses' to the Book of Mormon, recalled that the prophet's 'servant girl' claimed he had made 'improper proposals to her, which created quite a talk amongst the people.' Mormon Fanny Brewer similarly reported 'much excitement against the Prophet . . . [involving] an unlawful intercourse between himself and a young orphan girl residing in his family and under his protection."

Emma discovered the sexual affair between Smith and Fanny and exploded in anger. Caught with his hand in Fanny's cookie jar, Smith confessed. A noticeably pregnant Fanny eventually was kicked out of the house by Emma, as reported thusly:

“Former Mormon apostle William McLellin later wrote that Emma Smith substantiated the Smith-Alger affair. According to McLellin, Emma was searching for her husband and Alger one evening, when through a crack in the barn door she saw 'him and Fanny in the barn together alone' on the hay mow. McLellin, in a letter to one of Smith's sons, added that the ensuing confrontation between Emma and her husband grew so heated that Rigdon, Frederick G. Williams, and Oliver Cowdery had to mediate the situation.

"After Emma related what she had witnessed, Smith, according to McLellin, 'confessed humbly and begged forgiveness. Emma and all forgave him.' While Oliver Cowdery may have forgiven his cousin Joseph Smith, he did not forget the incident. Three years later, when provoked by the prophet, Cowdery countered by calling the Fanny Alger episode 'a dirty, nasty, filthy affair.'

“Chauncey Webb recounts Emma’s later discovery of the relationship: 'Emma was furious, and drove the girl, who was unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet, out of her house' . . .

“' . . . Webb, Smith's grammar teacher . . . reported that when the pregnancy became evident, Emma Smith drove Fanny from her home. . . . . Webb's daughter, Ann Eliza Webb Young, a divorced wife of Brigham Young, remembered that Fanny was taken into the Webb home on a temporary basis . . . . . Fanny stayed with relatives in nearby Mayfield until about the time Joseph fled Kirtland for Missouri.

“Fanny left Kirtland in September 1836 with her family. Though she married non-Mormon Solomon Custer on 16 November 183614 and was living in Dublin City, Indiana, far from Kirtland, her name still raised eyebrows. Fanny Brewer, a Mormon visitor to Kirtland in 1837, observed 'much excitement against the Prophet . . . [involving] an unlawful intercourse between himself and a young orphan girl residing in his family and under his protection.'”

(Van Wagoner, “Sidney Rigdon: A Portrait in Religious Excess,” p. 291; and Van Wagoner, “Mormon Polygamy: A History,” p. 8; cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 19-year-old Zina D. Hunington

Smith further cemented his reputation for fooling around by making moves on a then-married teenager, Zina D. Hunington, who he asked on 25 October 1841 to become another of his multiple wives. Smith informed her (using a line he also employed with Emma and others) that he was ordered to do so by a sword-wielding angel who was threatening to kill him if he disobeyed:

“Already married, 19 year-old Zina remained conflicted with Smith's polygamy proposal 'until a day in October, apparently, when Joseph sent [her older brother] Dimick to her with a message: an angel with a drawn sword had stood over Smith and told him that if he did not establish polygamy, he would lose “his position and his life.” Zina, faced with the responsibility for his position as prophet, and even perhaps his life, finally acquiesced.' They were secretly married within days “

(Todd Compton, “In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith,” pp. 80-81, cited in ibid).
___

*Smith and 19-year-old Nancy Rigdon

Smith also secretly hit on another teenager, 19-year-old Nancy Rigdon, daughter of his close confidant Sidney Rigdon, in Nauvoo on 10 April 1842.

Nancy was not amused:

“ . . . Smith invited Nancy Rigdon, 19-year-old daughter of his close friend and counselor, Sidney Rigdon, to meet him at the home of Orson Hyde. Upon her arrival Smith greeted her, ushered her into a private room, then locked the door. After swearing her to secrecy, wrote George W. Robinson, Smith announced his 'affection for her for several years, and wished that she should be his . . . [T]he Lord was well pleased with this matter . . . [T]here was no sin in it whatever . . . but if she had any scruples of conscience about the matter, he would marry her privately.'

“Incredulous, Nancy countered that 'if she ever got married she would marry a single man or none at all.' Grabbing her bonnet, she ordered the door opened or she would 'raise the neighbors.' She then stormed out of the Hyde-Richards residence.

“The next day, Smith wrote Nancy a letter, where he justified his advances, saying, 'That which is wrong under one circumstance may be, and often is, right under another . . . . Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire. . . . even things which might be considered abominable to all who understand the order of heaven only in part, but which in reality were right because God gave and sanctioned by special revelation.' This is his first written statement of theocratic ethics.”

(“Official History of the Church,” vol. 5, p. 134-36; and Van Wagoner, “Sidney Rigdon: A Portrait in Religious Excess,” p. 295; cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 17-year-old Sarah Ann Whitney

Prior to wedding Sarah in Nauvoo on 27 July 1842, Smith conveniently received a “revelation” for the benefit of Sarah and her parents, essentially condoning his adultery in the name of polygamy:

“ . . .Smith received and recorded [this] revelation on polygamy, which remains in LDS church archives. Although recorded in the official 'Revelation Book' of the time, the revelation was not canonized as scripture. In this revelation, the Lord reveals a plural marriage ceremony, which would later be altered and become the sealing ceremony in the temple . . . :

“'Verily, thus saith the Lord, unto my servant Newell K. Whitney, a revelation to Newell K. Whitney, 27 July 1842, and Joseph Smith, Elizabeth Ann Whitney and Sarah Ann Whitney

"Verily, thus saith the Lord unto my servant N[ewell]. K. Whitney, the thing that my servant Joseph Smith has made known unto you and your family [his plural marriage to Sarah Ann Whitney], and which you have agreed upon is right in mine eyes and shall be rewarded upon your heads with honor and immortality and eternal life to all your house both old and young because of the lineage of my priesthood, saith the Lord. It shall be upon you and upon your children after you from generation to generation, by virtue of the holy promise which I now make unto you, saith the Lord.

"'These are the words which you shall pronounce upon my servant Joseph and your daughter Sarah Ann. Whitney. They shall take each other by the hand and you shall say, “You both mutually agree," calling them by name, “to be each other's companion so long as you both shall live, preserving yourselves for each other and from all others and also throughout all eternity, reserving only those rights which have been given to my servant Joseph by revelation and commandment and by legal Authority in times passed.”

“'If you both agree to covenant and do this, then I give you Sarah Ann Whitney, my daughter, to Joseph Smith to be his wife, to observe all the rights between you both that belong to that condition. I do it in my own name and in the name of my wife, your mother, and in the name of my holy progenitors, by the right of birth which is of priesthood, vested in my by revelation and commandment and promise of the living God, obtained by the Holy Melchizedek Jethro and others of the Holy Fathers, commanding in the name of the Lord all those powers to concentrate in you and through to your posterity forever.

“'All these things I do in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that through this order he may be glorified and that through the power of anointing David may reign King over Israel, which shall hereafter be revealed. Let immortality and eternal life henceforth be sealed upon your heads forever and ever. Amen."

(original manuscript of “Kirtland Revelation Book,” Church Historical Department, Ms f 490 # 2; “The Historical Record,” vol. 6, p. 222 (1887 edition); and Compton, “In Sacred Loneliness,” p. 348-49; all cited in ibid)

Smith then made secret arrangments to have a sexual rendevous with Sarah, without Emma finding out. On 19 August 1842, he wrote the following love letter to Sarah, laying out his plans to meet up with her:

“To arrange [a] night liason with [his] plural wife--Newell K. Whitney's daughter Sarah Ann--Smith writes: ' . . . [T]he only thing to be careful of is to find out when Emma comes, then you cannot be safe but when she is not here, there is the most perfect safety. . . .

“'Only be careful to escape observation, as much as possible. I know it is a heroic undertaking; but so much the greater friendship and the more joy; when I see you I will tell you all my plans. I cannot write them on paper. Burn this letter as soon as you read it; keep [it] all locked up in your breasts, my life depends upon it. . . . .

“I close my letter, I think Emma won't come tonight. If she don't, don't fail to come tonight. I subscribe myself your most obedient, and affectionate, companion and friend. Joseph Smith."

(“Joseph Smith, Jr., to Newell K. Whitney, Elizabeth Ann Whitney, etc.,” 18 August 1842, George Albert Smith Family Papers, Special Collections, Marriott Library, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah, text and signature of this document in the handwriting of Joseph Smith, Jr.; this document has been reproduced in Dean C. Jessee's “The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith” [Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Co., 1984], pp. 539-40; and Compton, “In Sacred Lonliness,” pp. 349-350; cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 19-year-old Emily Dow Partridge

Smith secretly took Emily as another of his wives in Nauvoo on 4 March 1843, with Elder Heber C. Kimball officiating the ceremony.

Emily later reported in sworn testimony that she had honeymoon sex with Smith the next night:

“Emily D. Partridge Smith testified that she 'roomed' with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had 'carnal intercourse' with him.

(“Temple Lot” case, complete transcript, pp. 364, 367, 384; Foster, “Religion and Sexuality,” p. 15; Andrew Jenson, ”LDS Biographical Encyclopedia” [1951], vol. 1, p. 697; S. Easton, “Marriages in Nauvoo Region 1839-45;” “Civil Marriages in Nauvoo 1839-45.” Lyndon Cook, “Nauvoo Temple Endowment Register 1845-46; Mormon Manuscripts to 1846;” cited in ibid).
___

*Smith and 16-year-old Flora Ann Woodworth

Smith married Flora in April 1843 (exact date unknown).

(Elder William Clayton affidavit, in “Historical Record,” vol. 6:, p. 225; cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 17-year-old Lucy Walker

Smith married Lucy on 1 May 1843, in the Smith's store, Nauvoo, officiated by William Clayton

(FamilySearch.com record for Joseph Smith, Jr.; cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 19-year-old Maria Lawrence

Smith married Maria on 11 May 1843.

(“Historical Record,” vol. 6, p. 223; Lucy Walker Smith Kimball, in “Temple Lot” case, full transcript, p. 461, LDS archives; Helen Kimball Whitney, “Woman's Exponent,” 15 February 1886, p. 138; cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 17-year-old Sarah Lawrence

Smith married Sarah the same day he married Sarah Lawrence's sister Maria, 11 May 1843.

(FamilySearch.com record for Joseph Smith Jr., “Historical Record,” vol. 6, p. 223; Lucy Walker Smith Kimball, in “Temple Lot“ case, full transcript, p. 461, LDS archives; Helen Kimball Whitney, “Woman's Exponent," 15 February 1886, p. 138, cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 16-year-old Nancy Maria Winchester

Smith married Nancy in Nauvoo on 28 July 1843:

“According to Mormon Church Historian Andrew Jenson, Nancy married Joseph sometime before his death in June of 1844. In addition, Orson Whitney, son of Nancy Maria's friend, Helen, also identified her as Smith's wife. These two witnesses, taken together, make a good case for Nancy as a plural spouse of Joseph. Though there is no exacT date for her marriage to the prophet, the best hypothosis is that the ceremony took place in 1843.”

(Andrew Jenson, “LDS Biographical Encyclopedia” [1951], vol. 1, p. 697; “ Marriages in Nauvoo Region 1839-45;" and Compton, “In Sacred Lonliness,” p. 606; cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 19-year-old Melissa Lott

Smith married Melissa in Nauvoo on 20 September 1843, with Hyrum Smith officiating:

“Melissa testified that her marriage to Smith included sex.”

(FamilySearch.com record for Joseph Smith Jr.; and Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Auust 1893; cited in ibid)
___

*Smith and 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball

As part of Smith's brimming quiver of teenager brides, in May 1843, in Smith's Nauvoo store, he married an underage 14-year-old female named Helen Mar Kimball. Helen's father, Heber C. Kimball, officiated the wedding of his underage daughter to Smith.

Helen was the youngest of Smith's brides--and according to Helen, he had sex with her.

Helen wrote about how her marriage to Smith was orchestrated by her father:

"Having a great desire to be connected with the Prophet, Joseph, he (my father) offered me to him; this I afterwards learned from the Prophet's own mouth. My father had but one Ewe Lamb, but willingly laid her upon the altar: how cruel this seemed to my mother whose heartstrings were already stretched unil they were ready to snap asunder, for she had already taken Sarah Noon to wife and she thought she had made sufficient sacrifice but the Lord required more."

Smith pressured Helen to marry him, giving her only 24 hours to give him answer.

Helen wrote:

"[My father] left me to reflect upon it for the next 24 hours. . . . I was skeptical--one minute [I] believed, then doubted. I thought of the love and tenderness that he felt for his only daughter and I knew that he would not cast me off, and this was the only convincing proof that I had of its being right.”

The next day, Smith came by to explain to Helen the “Law of Celestial Marriage,” and, having done that, to take her as his latest bride.

Helen described Smith's pitch:

“After which he said to me, 'If you take this step, it will ensure your eternal salvation and exaltation and that of your father's household and all of your kindred.' This promise was so great that I willingly gave myself to purchase so glorious a reward."

Helen's mother was none too pleased with the marriage, as Helen explains:

"None but God and his angels could see my mother's bleeding heart. When Joseph asked her if she was willing, she replied 'If Helen is willing I have nothing more to say.' She had witnessed the sufferings of others, who were older and who better understood the step they were taking, and to see her child, who had yet seen her fifteenth summer, following the same thorny path, in her mind she saw the misery which was as sure to come as the sun was to rise and set; but it was hidden from me."

Helen was under the unfortunate misimpression that her marriage to Smith was merely “dynastic.” She was to discover soon enough, however, that it was sexual.

Helen later confessed to a close friend in Nauvoo:

"I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than ceremony. I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it.”

(Helen Mar Whitney journal: Helen Mar autobiography: “Woman's Exponent,” 1880; reprinted in “A Woman's View;” FamilySearch.com record for Joseph Smith, Jr.; and Van Wagoner, “Mormon Polygamy: A History,” p. 53; cited in ibid)
___

RfM contributor "Deconstructor" on his own website asks---then answers--the question: "Was it normal to marry 14 year-old girls in Joseph Smith's time?"

To set the stage, he first quotes from Smith's Mormon scriptural justification for polygamous sex as a general principle required for Mormon exaltation (the same scriptures, by the way, faithfully cited and espoused by Warren Jeffs, as well):

"And I will bless Joseph Smith and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds."

"And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified."

"But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused [to Joseph Smith], shall be with another man, she has committed adultery and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto Joseph Smith to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified." ("Doctrine and Covenants Section" 132:55, 62-63)

Now, for the evidence that Smith, like Jeffs, had sex with his own underage child victims:

"Many LDS Church leaders and historians suggest that sexual relations and the marriage of Joseph Smith and his youngest wife, Helen Mar Kimball, 14 at the time, was 'approaching eligibility.'

"There is no documentation to support the idea that marriage at fourteen was 'approaching eligibility.' Actually, marriages even two years later, at the age of 16, occurred occasionally but infrequently in Helen Mar's culture. Thus, girls marrying at 14, even 15, were very much out of the ordinary. 16 was comparatively rare but not unheard of. American women began to marry in their late teens; around different parts of the United States the average age of marriage varied from 19 to 23.

"In the United States the average age of menarche (first menstruation) dropped from 16.5 in 1840 to 12.9 in 1950. More recent figures indicate that it now occurs on average at 12.8 years of age. The mean age of first marriages in colonial America was between 19.8 years to 23.7, most women were married during the age period of peak fecundity (fertility).

"Mean pubertal age has declined by some 3.7 years from the 1840’s.

"The psychological sexual maturity of Helen Mar Kimball in today’s average age of menarche (first menstruation) would put her psychological age of sexual maturity at the time of the marriage of Joseph Smith at 9.1 years old. (16.5 years-12.8 years = 3.7 years) (12.8 years-3.7 years = 9.1 years)

"The fact is Helen Mar Kimball's sexual development was still far from complete. Her psychological sexual maturity was not competent for procreation. The coming of puberty is regarded as the termination of childhood; in fact the term 'child' is usually defined as the human being from the time of birth to the on-coming of puberty. Puberty [is] the point of time at which the sexual development is completed. In young women, from the date of the first menstruation to the time at which she has become fitted for marriage, the average lapse of time is assumed by researchers to be two years.

"Age of eligibility for women in Joseph Smith’s time-frame would start at a minimum of 19-and-a-half years old.

"This would suggest that Joseph Smith had sexual relations and married several women before the age of eligibility, and some very close to the age of eligibility including:

"Fanny Alger, 16

"Sarah Ann Whitney, 17

"Lucy Walker, 17

"Flora Ann Woodworth, 16

"Emily Dow Partridge, 19

"Sarah Lawrence, 17

"Maria Lawrence, 19

"Helen Mar Kimball, 14

"Melissa Lott, 19

"Nancy M. Winchester, [14?]

"And then we have these testimonies:

"'Joseph was very free in his talk about his women. He told me one day of a certain girl and remarked that she had given him more pleasure than any girl he had ever enjoyed. I told him it was horrible to talk like this.' (Joseph Smith's close confidant and LDS Church First Councilor, William Law, interview in 'Salt Lake Tribune,' 31 July 1887)

"'When Heber C. Kimball asked Sister Eliza R. Snow the question if she was not a virgin although married to Joseph Smith, she replied, "I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that."'
(Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 23, LDS archives)"

"Short Bios of Smith's wives:
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org

"Did Smith have sex with his wives?:
http://www.i4m.com/think/history/joseph_smith_sex.htm

"Whatever the average age of menarche might have been in the mid-19th-century, the average age of marriage was around 20 for women and 22 for men. And a gap of 15 to 20 years or more between partners was very unusual, not typical. Whatever biology might have to say, according to the morals of his time, several of Joseph Smith's wives were still inappropriately young for him.

"It is a pure myth that 19th-century American girls married at age 12-14.

"For example, Laura Ingalls Wilder, from 'Little House on the Prairie' fame, was born in 1867, which puts her later than Joseph Smith but still in the 1800s. She tells of hearing of the marriage of a 13-year-old girl, and being shocked. She also notes that the girl's mother 'takes in laundry' and is sloppy and unkempt--implying that "nice" people don't marry off their teenaged daughters. Laura herself became engaged at 17--but her parents asked her to wait until she was 18 to marry.

"You merely need to go to your local courthouse and ask to see the old 19th century marriage books. Take a look at and pay attention to the age at marriage. Sure, a very few did but it was far from the norm. The vast majority of women married after the age of 20.

"In fact, look up the marriage ages in the Smith family before polygamy. You'll find that one of the Smith girls was 19. The rest of them, and their sisters-in-law, were in their early 20s when they married. The Smith boys' first wives were in their 20s. The same pattern was true for . . . the rest of American society at the time.

"On the extremely rare occasions women younger than 17 married, it was to men close to their same age, not 15 to 20 years older.

"The case is even true in pioneer Utah among first marriages. Mormon men in their 20s started out marrying someone their own age. Then later, these older men married girls under 20 to be their plural wives. But the first wives were the age of the husband and married over the age of 20. This is still the case is the rural Utah polygamist communities.

"References:

"Coale and Zelnik assume a mean age of marriage for white women of 20 (1963: 37). Sanderson's assumptions are consistent with a mean of 19.8 years (Sanderson 1979: 343). The Massachusetts family reconstitutions revealed somewhat higher mean ages. For Hingham, Smith reports an age at first marriage of 23.7 at the end of the 18th century (1972: Table 3, p. 177). For Sturbridge, the age for a comparable group was 22.46 years (Osterud and Fulton 1976: Table 2, p. 484), and in Franklin County it was 23.3 years (Temkin-Greener, H., and A.C. Swedlund). 1978. 'Fertility Transition in the Connecticut Valley:1740-1850m' 'Population Studies' 32, March 1978, 27-41.: Table 6, p. 34.

"Jack Larkin, 'The Reshaping of Everyday Life,' 1790-1840 (New York: Harper & Row, 1988), 63; Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, 'Good Wives: Image and Reality in the Lives of Women in Northern New England, 1650-1750' [NY: Oxford University Press, 1980], 6; Nancy F. Cott, 'Young Women in the Second Great Awakening in New England,' 'Feminist Studies' 3 [1975] 16; Dr. Dorothy V. Whipple, 'Dynamics of Development: Euthenic Pediatrics' [New York: McGraw-Hill, 1966]"

("Was It Normal to Marry 14 year-old Girls in Joseph Smith's Time?," by "Deconstructor," at:http://www.i4m.com/think/polygamy/teen_polygamy.htm)

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 10:21AM

Thank you. It is very well laid out, and documented. I'm saving it to my "personal" papers (of the online format.)

There's so much incriminating proof of his ignoble qualities that his womanizing is by itself damning evidence of his being a false prophet among his followers.

His proclaiming an angel with a burning sword threatened him to take him if he didn't get his way with these young women, was nothing other than his raging testosterone speaking, and megalomania. He reminds me of a certain Bill Clinton, on steroids.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 11:18AM

hah...The imperfect prophet who could do no wrong.....(though TBMs have to be perfect..) would be a registered sex offender for the rest of his life...

Like the draperite said...mormonism is bi-polar......

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 01:02PM

Good point on the hypocrisy involved - whitewashing the image of a fugitive felon from the law, while stressing the importance of sanctification, morally chaste and pure lifestyles.

We had unattainable standards to live up to, as Mormons.

Joe didn't even try to go there. He went as far as he could to the other extreme of chaste and morally clean living.

He was what I consider to have been both morally bankrupt and a degenerate in the worst possible sense of the terms.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: May 18, 2015 01:10PM

Here's the irony on this. Take both Jesus Joseph Smith and if they were here today doing what they did.

Jesus- Did recommend not listening to the Jewish religious leaders, as they were focusing on the temple money tables. (temples, money tables...irony...) Jesus knew that religion is a PERSONAL thing. You can opt out if you like, though Jesus did give people an alternative to the dominant Jewish religion at the time. At the most, nowadays, Jesus wouldn't be allowed into a Jewish temple to worship, though Jesus could go to any one of a number of churches nowadays.

Joseph Smith- Nowadays???....marrying other mens' wives, girls...GIRLS under the age of 18, multiple wives???
He would surely spend the rest of his life in jail for child molestation. Now the bigamy and polygamy (of which, he probably wouldn't admit to now), so he would also have to serve his time for that, including perjury and obstruction of justice.





Who should we follow and hold in high regard now??? Being a convicted felon/child molestor doesn't make you a good prophet, just ask that guy that abducted and raped Elizabeth Smart.....

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: May 01, 2015 01:12PM

He'd be hung

Not the jury

In a hurry

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: May 18, 2015 01:47PM

What I find so fascinating about this kind of question is how different people analyze the same person's claims, behavior and actions etc.

On the one hand, there are millions (?) believing members of the LDS Church (living and dead), who go to their grave convinced "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that regardless of his imperfections and faults, Joseph Smith Jr was chosen by Jesus Christ as a prophet who opened up the Last Dispensation of Times to bring in the preparation of the Second Coming of Christ and established His Only True Church with the keys of authority to perform the ordinances for Eternal Life. This belief has created universities, educational system, built meeting houses and temples around the world where people testify to their beliefs regularly.

On the other hand, there are people that analyze the same Joseph Smith Jr's life in a completely different manner which is born out by the OP and the comments that follow. He is considered to be guilty of many crimes which they want known to the public, and every bit of his life discredited as he was a fraud, evil and destructive, harmful to those that believe he was a prophet, (living or dead) who testify of his claims as Mormons. Nothing he said or did is considered to have any value, or acceptable. Also, it's often voiced that anyone who believed in his claims has been "brainwashed", which left them defective in some manner, messed up, and so on.

Same person. Two completely opposite views of his life. Both diametrically opposing versions are held onto with a strong emotional attachment/bond. One is a positive view, one is a negative view.

(The other fascinating part of this is that people go from the positive to the negative very often when they leave the LDS Church.)

There is a third more neutral view. Some folks are able to accept that people can make up their own mind, allowing for the right of people to take any view they want.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2015 01:55PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: shodanrob ( )
Date: May 18, 2015 02:08PM

Easy to prove he is a liar. He made up many different accounts of the first vision. If you were to be put on trial for any crime and gave at least 4 different versions of your activities or story, you would be convicted. Therefore he is proven to be a liar who can't keep his story straight.

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Posted by: Agnes Broomhead ( )
Date: May 18, 2015 04:09PM


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